Keane joins Sky Sports

Acquire Me

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I do remember early Giggs. As I have said repeatedly, that was the best Giggs. Current Mané is a better player. Balloon level good. We’ve won the CL twice in Giggs’ career, and the PL multiple times. He had every opportunity to be recognised as that guy, but he just wasn’t that guy. Very good player, but was never amongst the best few players in the world. And not very often amongst the best very few in the PL, and he hung around for more than long enough to be at some point, beyond his first few years before other teams started catching up.
How old are you?
 

Bojan11

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What a ridiculously skewed metric.
No, what's ridiculous is you saying Mane is better than Giggs. I can name a lot of players who over the years had a better season than Giggs in 99. But that does not make them a better player.

Giggs played in teams mainly 4-4-2. His job was to create not to score.
 

Cassidy

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This is 90s Giggs
This freak as a left inside forward today would be ridiculous. He would eat these fubacks alive

If people think Salah scores many in that pool side Giggs would be unreal
 

Judas

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Mane better than Giggs :lol: amazing how one simple opinion can make every single future post by someone totally meaningless. Must be a wum, and a bloody good one, I'm seething!
 

Josh 76

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Carragher was making the decision based on one season. Mane had a better season.

Roy's argument was that Giggs scored more important goals even though it was only 3 goals/2 assists and another factor was loyalty (which shouldn't even be used as it should be an objective decision)
For the first one, Mane scored two goals against Chelsea in the Super Cup to win it. Also, Mane has scored 5 winners already this season already in the league. He won Liverpool 10 points alone this season.
Mane scored in the super cup? Keane meant big games , not charity matches.
 

roonster09

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I’m glad I watched the clip before responding or I’d be hopping mad too at any united fan choosing Mane over Giggs. After seeing the choice was strictly 99 Giggs or today’s Mane in his current form it makes sense, Mane is the right choice. Of course if you’re looking at overall contribution Giggs will win this now and I’m certain we’ll say the same 10 years from now.
If it's strictly 99 Manutd team vs 2020 Liverpool team then Yorke should make the team who scored 29 goals and 20 assists that season.
 

El Zoido

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If Mane is still playing for Liverpool and winning titles for them in 2040 then I’ll agree.
 

Righteous Steps

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This freak as a left inside forward today would be ridiculous. He would eat these fubacks alive

If people think Salah scores many in that pool side Giggs would be unreal
Giggs would be unreal in a different way.He wasn’t the finisher Salah was, more a creator, it’s unreal to think he would score 31 goals in the league and be top scorer.
 

Righteous Steps

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What Carragher said isn’t a big deal it was based off one season and Giggs wasn’t anything special in 98/99, he scored 4 goals all season.

The go to players were Beckham and Keane, York’s has a great season also.
 

matherto

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Personally think Mane is the best player in the world right now on current form (not the actual best player in the world but playing the best right now) and Giggs never was.

Like Carragher said, if picking on form for the season, Mane would win over Giggs because semi goal against Arsenal aside, Giggsy didn't have a great 98/99 season.

If we're going off whole careers then obviously Giggs would win by a landslide as was highlighted during the discussion.

Also depends on formation as was discussed too because if you went 4-4-2 then you'd have Becks-Keane-Scholes-Giggs and Yorke and Cole up front so Mane wouldn't get a look in.
 

Adam-Utd

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Giggs played a completely different role to Mane.

Giggs was primarily a creator and a ball carrier. Mane's job is stand up the field, break the offside trap and score.

You're telling me a young Giggs couldn't have done that? if he was 18 now he'd be considered one of the best inside forwards in the game :lol:
 

youngrell

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What Carragher said isn’t a big deal it was based off one season and Giggs wasn’t anything special in 98/99, he scored 4 goals all season.

The go to players were Beckham and Keane, York’s has a great season also.
That can be debated, yes. But the outrage is over posters claiming Mane is a better player than Giggs ever was.
 

Righteous Steps

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Absolutely ridiculous comment. Mane is nowhere near Giggs.
He isn’t career wise.
Giggs played a completely different role to Mane.

Giggs was primarily a creator and a ball carrier. Mane's job is stand up the field, break the offside trap and score.

You're telling me a young Giggs couldn't have done that? if he was 18 now he'd be considered one of the best inside forwards in the game :lol:
That’s more Salahs role not Mane, Mane’s role is one of a ball carrier also.
 

Righteous Steps

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That can be debated, yes. But the outrage is over posters claiming Mane is a better player than Giggs ever was.
Well the outrage is unjust, he said Manes peak is a higher level than anything but a young Giggs attained, this is true, Ginola and Pires both came to the league and arguably had better peak seasons than Giggs from the time they entered to the time he retired.
 

SambaBoy

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I think if Giggs was playing in the modern era in his prime, he would be a totally different player to what he was back then. He would most likely be featuring on the right and when he's relied upon to create a goal threat, he would turn into a more selfish goalscorer and could easily match Salah's output.

In his prime, he was expected to service two out and out strikers and chip in with the odd goal which he did very well as evident by his assist record. I fail to see what attributes Salah and Mane have over him apart from pure finishing which I suspect has improved due to their roles. If Giggs was an inside forward, he would be concentrating and focusing on different attributes. Giggs used to pick up the ball a lot deeper and rarely made the run from out to in which Mane/Salah are famed for.
 

Judge Red

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Roy Keane argues like someone who nobody has ever dared to disagree with. And that’s what makes him Roy Keane.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says but still enjoy watching him say it.

Now is not the time to compare this Liverpool side to the treble winning one. That can come after they’ve won the treble.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Disagree with Carragher saying Giggs was never the best in the world in his position.

There was definitely a period in the 90s where Giggs was the best left winger in world football.
 

youngrell

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Well the outrage is unjust, he said Manes peak is a higher level than anything but a young Giggs attained, this is true, Ginola and Pires both came to the league and arguably had better peak seasons than Giggs from the time they entered to the time he retired.
Absolute rubbish. The revisionism of Giggs' career on this forum is astounding.

And what is this peak season rubbish I keep reading? Giggs on his best day is comfortably better than all of those players on theirs.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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What Carragher said isn’t a big deal it was based off one season and Giggs wasn’t anything special in 98/99, he scored 4 goals all season.

The go to players were Beckham and Keane, York’s has a great season also.
I've just caught up with this debate (very funny from Keano by the way) and I agree, if we're talking about United '99 v Liverpool '20 I'd have Mane in the team too, even at the cost of Giggs on the left, as I don't see how you could leave him out. But obviously I prefer Giggs over his illustrious career than what Mane's done so far.

It reminds me of the silly VVD v Vidic debate doing the rounds on social media. You get a Liverpool fan saying 'VVD's better than Vidic and Ferdinand' and idiot United fans froth at the mouth. Just accept we had a fantastic central defensive partnership that was perfect for Fergie's team at that time, no sane United fan would swap them for the world. Some Scouser carping about VVD on Facebook doesn't change that.
 

Righteous Steps

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Absolute rubbish. The revisionism of Giggs' career on this forum is astounding.

And what is this peak season rubbish I keep reading? Giggs on his best day is comfortably better than all of those players on theirs.
What part do you think is rubbish? The Ginola part might be actually Giggs has definitely had better seasons than his PFA winning one, but at the same time he hasn’t had a season where you could say he was top 5 players in the world imo, Keane and Beckham both have coming 2nd and 4th in Ballon d’or rankings, Giggs especially after his major injuries certainly hasn’t IMO.
 

Rozay

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I know fans have short memories, but this is a different level. Giggs in his teens/early 20's was so good that he was seriously compared to George Best.
A lot of teenagers were compared to x or y in football. If you have to go back to a player’s teenage years to find when he was compared to Best, a player who played for another 20+ years - chances are he didn’t deliver on that promise. Otherwise he’d be
How old are you?
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No, what's ridiculous is you saying Mane is better than Giggs. I can name a lot of players who over the years had a better season than Giggs in 99. But that does not make them a better player.

Giggs played in teams mainly 4-4-2. His job was to create not to score.
It’s not about 99. If you are saying ‘Mané was better than Giggs in 99, but Giggs was better in ‘x’ years’, then let’s hear those years. Adding up a little bit of 20 different years to make one better player renders the comparison pointless. Mané obviously hasn’t played at the top for 20 years. He’s fecking 26 or whatever. And playing at the top for 20 years is not the metric used to judge top players. Many players better than Giggs didn’t play until 40.
Mane better than Giggs :lol: amazing how one simple opinion can make every single future post by someone totally meaningless. Must be a wum, and a bloody good one, I'm seething!
You ignoring my future posts will make me very happy.

Absolutely ridiculous comment. Mane is nowhere near Giggs.
What Giggs is he nowhere near? Which version? Or you mean ‘if you add up all the best bits over 20 years and put them together, Mané can’t reach that?

Giggs was phenomenal from 17 to like 21, he promised to be a player that other players actually went on to become, albeit not for 20 years! However, at any given time after 21 odd, if you paused time and said ‘how good is Giggs?’, my opinion is that the answer wouldn’t be as good as is implied in this thread. He was never a Balloon type of player. Others have been. Others who played the same position. They may not have held as long a peak, as most players don’t play as long, and also; they move around and have to start again in different conditions, which doesn’t always translate the same. Same thing often gets said about Messi, but the argument in his defence is simply the level he reached. At any given time, you can pause time and assess the player. He was at a better level than pretty much everyone else. Not ‘that 3 years between x and y’. He was actually the best player for a decade. Giggs was not. After people got over the initial years of brilliance, promise and potential - he was not really THAT great in his full incarnation. He was capable of genius, but massively inconsistent with it, which has all been airbrushes out now.
 

Tarrou

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Giggs played a completely different role to Mane.

Giggs was primarily a creator and a ball carrier. Mane's job is stand up the field, break the offside trap and score.

You're telling me a young Giggs couldn't have done that? if he was 18 now he'd be considered one of the best inside forwards in the game :lol:
he'd have been absolutely devastating in the inside forward role

would have loved to have seen that
 

TMDaines

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If they are doing a combined Team of the Year of Manchester United 98/99 & Liverpool 19/20 then Mane should be in over Giggs. If just an all-time XI based on their careers and peaks, then it should be Giggs obviously.

That said, I think Rozay is seriously underrating Giggs. He made himself part of Ferguson's 13 league titles and Ferguson was a manager whose natural inclination was to always reinvent teams after success. Giggs in 2008-09 had one of the best seasons I've seen any United player ever have, despite being used sparingly.
 

Adam-Utd

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he'd have been absolutely devastating in the inside forward role

would have loved to have seen that
He'd have been insane. His pace, agility and dribbling would have made him very difficult to stop. Not to mention he had a real crack of a shot too.

Stick Mane on the right wing and get him running up and down the line and putting in crosses, let's see how many goals and assists he gets. Football has changed massively in the last 20 years in that sense, it's all about numbers now.
 

Cassidy

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Giggs would be unreal in a different way.He wasn’t the finisher Salah was, more a creator, it’s unreal to think he would score 31 goals in the league and be top scorer.
I never said he would be. I said he would be unreal
Saying that Giggs was a decent finisher and he would get alot of chances playing in that side and create more for himself as well
 

cyberman

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Just the 13 titles, 2 CL, 4 CL appearances and we are here talking about fecking Mane.
Theres a reason why the goalposts have been moved as to not judge it over that glorious career and its not to make Giggs look good.
Back then it was pot luck judging Balon Dor talents since watching games wasnt as easy as it is now. You are simply lying if you say that player x from La Liga was a better left winger than Giggs that year since you might have seen a handful of their games.
Nobody had a better year than Giggs from his position in 99. We outplayed too many big sides for it to be otherwise
 

B20

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Giggs might have been the best winger in the world for a bit in the early 90s.

What was his competition though? Lentini? Someone like Barnes was past his best and a player like Figo not really there yet. Literally can't remember any other top wingers in that period.
 

SiRed

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Mane is not as good as Giggs but better than Beckham, so he does make a combined XI, but on the right.

VVD was a Lionel Messi away from winning the Ballon D’Or so he makes it in automatically.

Salah is a better player than Yorke ever was.

Those three would make a combined XI for sure.

Trent vs Neville is debatable.
Becks was an assist machine that season, to say Mane is better than Becks is ridiculous.
VVD takes Ronie Johnsen's spot.

And Dwight Yorke for 2 seasons was on fire and could do things with a ball that Salah could never do.
 

Vidyoyo

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'And playing at the top for 20 years is not the metric used to judge top players.'

Maybe it should be? Call it 10 though. 20 is freak.

Edit: Suppose it doesn't work as you can only do that after they've retired.
 

Righteous Steps

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'And playing at the top for 20 years is not the metric used to judge top players.'

Maybe it should be? Call it 10 though. 20 is freak.
Neither Ronaldinho or Kaka for example played at the top for 10 let alone 20 years, it’s not favourable to a lot of African and South American players who don’t even arrive in Europe till their early or mid 20’s.
 

youngrell

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What part do you think is rubbish? The Ginola part might be actually Giggs has definitely had better seasons than his PFA winning one, but at the same time he hasn’t had a season where you could say he was top 5 players in the world imo, Keane and Beckham both have coming 2nd and 4th in Ballon d’or rankings, Giggs especially after his major injuries certainly hasn’t IMO.
Pretty much all of it, mate.

We are not comparing Giggs to Keane and Beckham, you and others are claiming Mane to be a better player than him – and you went a step further adding Ginola and Pires. What exactly is Mane better at?

Dribbling? No. Not even close.
Crossing? No. Not even close.
Tackling? No.
Passing? No. Not even close.
Pace, on and off the ball? No.
Heading? Yes.
Shooting? Yes. Just about.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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In modern football, Giggs would be played on the right wing and he'd score for fun with his ability to cut inside as well as drag the fullback wide. Add an overlapping right back who is a threat to cross into the forwards and you have a very fun scenario.
 

Vidyoyo

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Neither Ronaldinho or Kaka for example played at the top for 10 let alone 20 years, it’s not favourable to a lot of African and South American players who don’t even arrive in Europe till their early or mid 20’s.
Sorry yeah I just edited. Don't think the argument works as you can only really do it after they've retired.

That said, I think Kaka is pretty overrated. Shevchenko/Torres level for me. Personal opinion of course.

Romaldinho was a sexy footballer :drool:
 

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....and Solskjaer has won it!
At the end when Keane puts Nev back in at RB because he gets him Salford tickets and then proceeds to make the point that Clopp couldn't train Lovren, and still had to buy a CB and a keeper. :lol: