Keir Starmer Labour Leader

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I think conservatism is primarily about property ownership, whether buildings, land, money, shares, wife at one time, and the idea no one has the right to take any of that from you. Even the nationalism side of it is related to that, johnny foreigner would take it all from you if he could. Also the reason why conservative people don't want public spending for anything, they don't want to be taxed to pay for it. And they don't like change, any sort of change really, because that might threaten what they have one way or another, and that would never do.
 

Maticmaker

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I think conservatism is primarily about property ownership, whether buildings, land, money, shares, wife at one time, and the idea no one has the right to take any of that from you.


I don't think in the world of 'small 'c' conservatism' its to do with a 'right' to take from you, its more to do with you not allowing someone to take what you own, from you, without your consent.

Even the nationalism side of it is related to that, johnny foreigner would take it all from you if he could
This probably stems from what Anglo-Saxon parents in East Anglia, Mercia, Northumbria use to tell their children to frighten them into obedience , especially before the Viking raids.

Also the reason why conservative people don't want public spending for anything, they don't want to be taxed to pay for it.
Again in terms of 'small 'c' conservatism' this is really the recognition that Government money is really taxpayers money, and whilst clearly public spending on health, education, defence, policing, transport etc. is needed many of the 'vanity projects' (that all Government of whatever political hue, tend to indulge in) should be curtailed.

And they don't like change, any sort of change really, because that might threaten what they have one way or another, and that would never do.
This 'bang-on' for mainstream Conservatism, but now in places like the red wall areas, the 'small 'c' conservatives' (this might also include for traditional right of centre Labour voters) have lost everything already and see no change whatsoever in having either local Labour party dominance, or Labour representation in Parliament, so they are now actively seeking change... and they are betting that Boris will live up to his 'leveling up' promises.

What can Keir Starmer do that can bring such small 'c' conservatives as well as traditional Labour voters back to the fold?
 

meneillosRC

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There's certainly plenty to dislike about Starmer, but I still find maddening that a scumbag like Johnson is fairly well-liked over there.
 

groovyalbert

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But Starmer told us it was the "vaccine bounce". Not his intept leadership and lack of opposition.


"Lib Dems win Chesham and Amersham byelection in stunning upset
Sarah Green takes formerly safe Buckinghamshire seat despite senior Tories’ canvassing"
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ham-and-amersham-byelection-in-stunning-upset
To be honest, I reckon you could stick anyone from any corner of the Labour party in Starmer's role and the result would be the same.

Labour just doesn't have a place in post-Brexit British politics it seems. In the age of popularity through division from all ends of the political spectrum, a broadchurch party simply isn't going to survive.
 

Wilt

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Chesham & Amersham under Corbyn and Starmer leaderships….

2017 election Labour votes 11,374 . . . . 20.6%

2019 election Labour votes 7,166 . . . . 12.9%

2021 election Labour votes 622 . . . . 1.6% (lost deposit)

As bad as it was for Conservative….. Labour, wtf?
 

sullydnl

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I'm assuming this was a seat Labour were never going to win, so voting against the Tories tactically meant voting Lib-dem?

If not...... :nervous:
 

Shamwow

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Tactical voting but still pretty embarassing for Mr Electable especially as we got beat by the Greens.
 

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:lol:

Tbh I live in this tory hellhole(It's great for dog walking)and while Labour would never win, it's a awful result.

Also the tories will retake the seat in the next general election.
 

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Jeez, Davey knocking a wall of blue bricks down with a yellow hammer is as cringeworthy as it gets. Worse than Milliband and his carved in stone obelisk thing. The Liberals need a new ad agency or whatever they used to come up with it, or they'll do something so stupid it will stick.
 

Balljy

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:lol:

Tbh I live in this tory hellhole(It's great for dog walking)and while Labour would never win, it's a awful result.

Also the tories will retake the seat in the next general election.
It's definitely interesting at the moment. I live in a proper labour seat which was held easily in the last general election and loads of people seem to be moving to the Green Party. I'm beginning to think we may be getting a shift away from treating Labour as the party to vote for if you don't like the tories and people are looking at alternatives.

The nightmare if that's happening will be the split of votes between Lib Dems, Labour and the Green Party leaving the tories on their own for the right wing voters to get a majority.
 

sun_tzu

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Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.
The nightmare if that's happening will be the split of votes between Lib Dems, Labour and the Green Party leaving the tories on their own for the right wing voters to get a majority.
Best for Britain are already working on a progressive alliance for the next election

Labour libs greens plaid and snp all agree to stand down candidates (except one) or as a minimum a non aggression pact... hopefully the former

With in all manifestos a guarantee that there will be electoral reform and a move to pr by the next election

Labour are the sticking point at the moment but a few more results like the last one and if the greens continue to progress then perhaps Labour will get on board.... whilst not there yet they are apparently more receptive than they were under corbyn so could happen ... once you have pr probably Labour and Conservative both split down into 2 or 3 parties I think
 

Fluctuation0161

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To be honest, I reckon you could stick anyone from any corner of the Labour party in Starmer's role and the result would be the same.

Labour just doesn't have a place in post-Brexit British politics it seems. In the age of popularity through division from all ends of the political spectrum, a broadchurch party simply isn't going to survive.
If Starmer had stuck to his leadership pledges they would be in a much better position. The core engaged Labour members would be on-board with grass roots campaigns.

If Starmer had any policies they would be in a much better position. Likewise if people knew what Labour actually stand for now it would help.

You can't have a hollow shell of a party with no principles or policies, simply cheerleading government policy, with slight criticisms, and expect to have a place in British politics.