Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Fluctuation0161

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sun_tzu said:
He was allowed back into the party

But has the whip suspended so he sits as an independent mp

Corbyns legal team have lodged papers to challenge this suspension in the high Court (26th November 2020 this was lodged)

Of course there may be several more pressing legal actions ahead for his team with numerous cases against him progressing including a potentially very expensive libel case and of course he is already under investigation for the funding of his numerous legal issues

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sleaze-investigation-parliament-b1880720.html

Personally I don't think lifting the suspension whilst he is still involved in legal action regarding antisemitism as well as him taking legal action against the leader plus of course being under investigation in Parliament wouldn't be especially unifying.

Will be interesting to see if the libel action makes it to court before the next general election... and of course if not will corbyn stand as an independent against Labour?

My gut feel is he will be too busy whoring his mouth out to Russia today again trying to pay off libel damages by then

His case against Labour isn't going so well
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...nstatement-labour_uk_60119ac4c5b6a08142739adc

Nor is his "zionists who don't understand English irony" case
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-set-face-libel-23948113.amp

With that in the background I can't see giving him the whip back (because as I said he's still in the party) would be unifying
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The NEC removed Corbyns suspension and made no recommendations for him to be removed as an MP.

This is on Starmer and his intent to purge or split the party.

"A disciplinary panel of the party’s national executive committee (NEC) lifted the suspension of Corbyn’s party membership on Tuesday after he issued a conciliatory statement “clarifying” controversial remarks..."

Starmer said. “In those circumstances, I have taken the decision not to restore the whip to Jeremy Corbyn. I will keep this situation under review.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-labour-whip-despite-having-suspension-lifted

He then follows this controversial move up with an anti democratic attempt to change leadership rules, going against his 10 pledges and against the very system that got him elected. Starner is on a roll, a roll out of leadership at this rate.

Meanwhile, in the first Labour conference post COVID and maybe the penultimate one before the next election, no coverage is given to, UK COVID failings, social care crisis and the inadequate solution proposed by the Tories, the cut in Universal credit, the proposed charge for COVID tests in the future and the petrol/gas shortage following a disastrous Brexit. Not to mention the disregard given to peace in Northern Ireland.

Keir "own goal" Starmer. What a calamity.
 
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sun_tzu

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Fluctuation0161 said:
The NEC removed Corbyns suspension and made no recommendations for him to be removed as an MP.

This is on Starmer and his intent to purge or split the party.

"A disciplinary panel of the party’s national executive committee (NEC) lifted the suspension of Corbyn’s party membership on Tuesday after he issued a conciliatory statement “clarifying” controversial remarks..."

Starmer said. “In those circumstances, I have taken the decision not to restore the whip to Jeremy Corbyn. I will keep this situation under review.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-labour-whip-despite-having-suspension-lifted

He then follows this controversial move up with an anti democratic attempt to change leadership rules, going against his 10 pledges and against the very system that got him elected. Starner is on a roll, a roll out of leadership at this rate.

Meanwhile no coverage is given to, UK COVID failings, social care crisis and the inadequate solution proposed by the Tories, the cut in Universal credit, the proposed charge for COVID tests in the future and the petrol/gas shortage following a disastrous Brexit. Not to mention the disregard given to peace in Northern Ireland.

Keir "own goal" Starmer. What a calamity.
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Crack on... could do with a laugh

 

sun_tzu

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Fluctuation0161 said:
Strange reference. OK...
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Who do you think then... our becky... Angela "scum" reyner... John "fermenting the downfall of capitalism" Mcdonald... or perhaps this lady?



I would have thought Burgon was the least worst option for the left?... which kinda makes me think starmers safe from a meaningful leadership challenge as Burgon is a disaster


Bring on the burgon and let him have his owen smith moment?
 

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TwoSheds

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sun_tzu said:
I'm baffled as to who they think from the left is in a position to get enough mps to back them in a leadership challenge as fluctuation seems to think there is going to be one
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I think of all the candidates that ran last time Starmer would probably come last now if it was an election giving the membership a meaningful say. What the party needs is an actual unifying candidate, not a pretend one. My vote would go to Thornberry probably.
 

sun_tzu

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TwoSheds said:
I think of all the candidates that ran last time Starmer would probably come last now if it was an election giving the membership a meaningful say. What the party needs is an actual unifying candidate, not a pretend one. My vote would go to Thornberry probably.
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I think she would have been favourite a few years ago at least until she shot herself in the foot via twitter


With david milliband, kahn and Burnham not mps there does seem a lack of viable alternatives at the moment
 

UweBein

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Some of the Labour left are as whacky as the Left party in Germany. With this kind of proposals they make themselves unelectable. Despite all of Keir's faults, he is right to fight these currents within Labour.
 

Fluctuation0161

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sun_tzu said:
Who do you think then... our becky... Angela "scum" reyner... John "fermenting the downfall of capitalism" Mcdonald... or perhaps this lady?



I would have thought Burgon was the least worst option for the left?... which kinda makes me think starmers safe from a meaningful leadership challenge as Burgon is a disaster


Bring on the burgon and let him have his owen smith moment?
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It's not about division, left vs centre or left vs right. It is about having a coherent vision and a competent leader.

I mean this is from yesterday's news...


"Blow for Starmer as poll shows Labour supporters prefer Andy Burnham as leader
Findings increase pressure on Labour boss as party gathers in Brighton for conference"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-conference-poll-starmer-burnham-b1926650.html

As an aside, Angela Raynor calling an MP scum for making a scumbag move does not exclude her from party leadership, by the way. Can you recall why she made that comment or doesn't Guido cover that part?
 

Fluctuation0161

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TwoSheds said:
I think of all the candidates that ran last time Starmer would probably come last now if it was an election giving the membership a meaningful say. What the party needs is an actual unifying candidate, not a pretend one. My vote would go to Thornberry probably.
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True, Starmer would lose a leadership election to anybody. Even a centre left candidate. He has lost all credibility.
 

Fluctuation0161

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UweBein said:
Some of the Labour left are as whacky as the Left party in Germany. With this kind of proposals they make themselves unelectable. Despite all of Keir's faults, he is right to fight these currents within Labour.
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Which whacky proposals are you referring to that have been made by the "Labour left"?
 

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UweBein said:
Some of the Labour left are as whacky as the Left party in Germany. With this kind of proposals they make themselves unelectable. Despite all of Keir's faults, he is right to fight these currents within Labour.
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Is it really so crazy to nationalize the most important energy firms? Norway's biggest energy producer is Statkraft, literally state power, and it's fully owned by the state. It's the largest producer of renewable energy in Europe. Equinor, previously Statoil (that one isn't so hard to work out), is a large petroleum company, operating 60% of the total production on the Norwegian continental shelf. It's 67% state owned. Norsk Hydro is a large producer of renewable energy (and aluminium), and is 41% state owned.Statnett is the owner and operator of the power grid in Norway, and is obviously fully state owned. There are others as well.

It makes perfect sense for the state to be heavily involved in areas that are so vital to the nation.
 

UweBein

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Has Norway nationalised those companies? The answer is no.

It's a huge difference if you talk about companies owned by the state and companies that should be nationalised. The latter is a very expensive move and it is very difficult to pull off. Probably the only viable solution would be to pay off the current owners with a huge sum. Why would you waste public money to make rich people only richer?
 

sun_tzu

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How do we nationalise EDF?

I mean they are a key energy producer (about 20% of all uk energy) / are one of the big suppliers to households ... and they are also owned by the French government?
 

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nimic said:
Is it really so crazy to nationalize the most important energy firms? Norway's biggest energy producer is Statkraft, literally state power, and it's fully owned by the state. It's the largest producer of renewable energy in Europe. Equinor, previously Statoil (that one isn't so hard to work out), is a large petroleum company, operating 60% of the total production on the Norwegian continental shelf. It's 67% state owned. Norsk Hydro is a large producer of renewable energy (and aluminium), and is 41% state owned.Statnett is the owner and operator of the power grid in Norway, and is obviously fully state owned. There are others as well.

It makes perfect sense for the state to be heavily involved in areas that are so vital to the nation.
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Norway didn't privatise nearly every asset it owns though. Taking stuff back private is either very expensive or reliant on the company collapsing, eg Railtrack back in the day (and even that caused a shitstorm that brought down Byers, the transport secretary at the time).
 

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sun_tzu said:
How do we nationalise EDF?

I mean they are a key energy producer (about 20% of all uk energy) / are one of the big suppliers to households ... and they are also owned by the French government?
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EDF is owned by Electricite de France, itself 85% owned by the French government
 

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Jippy said:
Norway didn't privatise nearly every asset it owns though. Taking stuff back private is either very expensive or reliant on the company collapsing, eg Railtrack back in the day (and even that caused a shitstorm that brought down Byers, the transport secretary at the time).
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No, that's true. And that's why privatization is such a dangerous thing, because even if it's the wrong decision it's nearly impossible to reverse. You really only ever get it in post-revolutionary countries, and the settled order is always very cross (and sometimes they invade and/or fund a coup).

It should be possible, though. And there's nothing really wrong with a social democratic/socialist party to aspire to have key industries under national control. After all, it happened once, usually.
 

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sun_tzu said:
I think she would have been favourite a few years ago at least until she shot herself in the foot via twitter


With david milliband, kahn and Burnham not mps there does seem a lack of viable alternatives at the moment
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Yeah you've said this before. It seems a complete non-entity of a scandal and it's bloody years ago, I think it's a ridiculous reason to rule someone out. I do agree Burnham could be a decent unifying candidate.

Khan would not be though, he's not overly well liked by any segment of the population as far as I can tell. Country is still too racist for a brown PM as well I suspect.
 

Fluctuation0161

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UweBein said:
Like nationalising energy firms.
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Considering the fact the small privatised energy firms in the UK are currently going bust e.g. Avro. It is a crisis.

For example the UK has one of the lowest Gas storage capacities in Europe. This has led to us feeling the energy crisis much more sharply than other countries and now we have higher prices and a supply problem.

The reason we have the lowest storage? Because the government did not invest in it and private companies wanting to maximise profitability did not invest in gas storage tanks

It seems a more sensible idea every day!
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...eft-britain-exposed-to-winter-gas-price-hikes
 

TwoSheds

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sun_tzu said:
I dunno... sunak seems to be favourite to be the next pm
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Well yeah, the Tories could probably get Harold Shipman elected at this point the way they've stitched up the media in fairness. Plus don't forget Sunak is a "good one". Khan is still widely targeted by fake news and slandered on social media, can't see it working out for him. Particularly as a lot of his own party aren't so keen either.
 

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I remember when Javid was sacked someone posted on the caf it was because he was brown, and I don't think they were joking. Two mains later they appointed Sunak.

They have had two female leaders too.

I dislike the Tory party intensely, but the left need to be a bit cleverer in how they attack them in my opinion, it can be quite counter-productive otherwise.
 
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