I mean Starmer's Labour is now an alternative in the same way that the Conservatives used to be an alternative to UKIP/NF.
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The sign of a man who is terrified of some of his own MPs.
Agree but tbh thats the most hopeful answer, the alternative is that Starmer is just transphobic(Which wouldn't be that surprising given his politics).
I do wonder whether our resident centrists believe in these kind of positions personally.
Labour are doing a pretty bad job of convincing they've got anything to offer to be honest.
Define the hard left? Anyone not wanting to criminalise refugees or asylum seekers? Anyone criticising the Rwanda policy?
Which is fine. Its your right. There's nothing wrong with not voting Labour or voting Tory.
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Well, you have just increased the chance for the Tories to win the next election.
People have their default parties they've supported historically and will generally just vote for them come election time. If a voter doesn't like how their party is behaving etc then they probably just won't vote in the next election rather than switch to voting something else. This massively benefits the Tories in an FPTP system.
Yeah trying to make me feel guilty for voting with my conscience and regarding issues I think are important won't work. Instead of constantly blaming the people turned away by their attitudes how about holding the party responsible?
What an insane post.
What's wrong with being tough on crime? Think I'm missing something here.
You must remember to frame everything as 'revenge for what they did for Jeremy', then it ALL becomes clear
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Agh, got it!
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You're talking about an amorphous left blob here. I would consider myself left of centre, and I'm not encouraging apathy, I'm stating that there are issues that are important to me or I think are the morally right thing to vote for, and Labour do not represent my views on those issues. As a result I will take my vote to a party that represents them as closely as possible at the election.
What engenders political apathy is an environment where anyone who has any level of support for progressive politics of the left has no viable voting option with any chance of forming a Government. It is not the fault of the "vocal far-left" (and I'll ignore this loaded term used) that Labour have chosen this path where they are, undeniably, on many issues very close to the Conservative lines. You also state that criticism of political parties and figures is always acceptable. How is anyone to conduct such criticism of Labour right now without falling foul of your accusation of encouraging apathy?
I used to think this, or like this, until I practically observed that the “far left” will often swallow their pride and vote for a shitty centrist alternative when push comes to shove, whereas shitty centrists will never actually abide by the spirit of “compromise” they insist on others. They are often huge hypocrites who live far more by the idea that if it isn’t exactly what they are comfortable with (basically the prevailing orthodoxy of the last 40 years) they don’t have to vote for it - righteously declaring both sides as bad as each other, (their confected version of ‘all the same’) - far more so than the people they project that accusations of “ideological purity” towards.
The smell of weed under your window is a pathetically NIMBY little England attitude to what constitutes ‘crime’… We’re in a world where even Joe fecking Biden is legalising weed, letting people out of prison and supporting Trans rights, and the ‘progressive’ party in England are still trying to appeal to people whose views on the World haven’t updated in 50 years. How far away from brining back hanging are we?
Not to point fingers, but I can kind of understand their argument. The alienation of Blair/Brown, the selection [and then tolerance] of Corbyn, the terrible stance over brexit, all set the stage for somebody like Starmer to take control. The country is both to the right, and fairly authoritarian. That's just the reality.
So it seems according to some posts I've read in this thread.
Lots of people who couldn't stomach voting for Corbyn continually get accused of letting the Tories in. Not saying it's right, but it's standard currency. You are of course right to vote your conscience, as is anyone.
The maths of it in our FPTP system doesn't allow it to be any other way. Labour's chances of winning require them to turn a shedload of Tory majority seats into Labour majority seats, and the only way they can do that, is get those Tory voters to switch.
Which would make you think it would be sensible for the leadership to back changing the system away from FPTP to help them move the country forward. But that isn't happening.
I think they should too, but I personally think it best done as part much bigger programme of constitutional reform. I hope it is something Labour comes around to, but I can understand why it might not be in the manifesto this time given everything else.
Exactly. We could be having a serious conversation about drugs but we're doing this. It's not just embarrassing, it's letting people down. A politician should be there to challenge people's opinions, raise the level of debate and convince them. What we're seeing from Starmer is pathetic. I know a lot of believers will ignore his I'll-say-anything-for-power approach because the ends justify the means, but mark my words, there won't be a sudden shift once they're in, the re-election campaign begins on day one. Once you start trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, you'll never come back.
It's not fundamentally the "billionaire controlled media" it's the structural realities of FPTP that make it hard for 3rd parties.
Hopefully when they get in next they are successful enough to push for this in their second term then. But I have my doubts.
You are just making up what the "far left" is now. I doubt you could even define or poi t out who the far left are other than people you disagree with.
The smell of cannabis is not a severe crime that needs tackling as a priority when we have serious crimes taking place and very few police officers. Been burgled lately? You'll find very little help from the Police. Resources are stretched!
