Keir Starmer Labour Leader

Frosty said:
Ministerial statements, government publications and press reporting indicate that there may be legislation on the following subjects in the 2026–27 session:

  1. veterinary and animal welfare reform
  2. reforms to the asylum system
  3. reforms to financial services and business-to-business payments
  4. Digital ID
  5. Special Educational Needs and Disabilities (SEND) reform in England
  6. energy independence
  7. reform of the water sector
  8. the abolition of NHS England and other reforms in the 10 Year Health Plan
  9. reforms to the criminal justice and national security systems
  10. creating a legal duty to remediate defective cladding
  11. UK-EU agreements, including a sanitary and phytosanitary agreement
  12. local government standards and scrutiny of mayoral strategic authorities
  13. a new power for mayors to charge a visitor levy
  14. public procurement reform
  15. a process for removing peerages
  16. road safety
Urgent.
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Well I would say that as a minimum 6,7,8 and 11 can be classed as urgent.
 
Eugenius said:
The fact that Starmer is despised by all ends of the spectrum above all shows how ungovernable the UK is, and how deluded the electorate is generally.

We have a low growth economy, too much debt and interest and too many old people and welfare that is basically crowding out government spending on anything productive (housing, education, infrastructure etc).

Most of the electorate is unwilling to have a serious conversation about cutting welfare and old age spending so spending can only go up.

We have an electorate that doesn't realise that for the majority of the country they already have low income taxes compared to history or other European countries, however it's politically unacceptable to raise taxes to pay for this except through stealth measures. Somehow the 150 billionaires in the UK will fund the £1trn the govt spends every year instead.

Then we have a chunk of the electorate who blame all the above on immigrants (whether legal or illegal) while also performing economic self sabotage in the form of Brexit.
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This - a 100 times over
 
Let’s see what’s come out of his focus group over the weekend.

It’s real life ‘The Thick of It’.

I’ve got my bingo card ready:

Reset.
Level with the public.
Blame
Further and faster
He’s the right man
Mandate
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Let’s see what’s come out of his focus group over the weekend.

It’s real life ‘The Thick of It’.

I’ve got my bingo card ready:

Reset.
Level with the public.
Blame
Further and faster
He’s the right man
Mandate
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It is clear that the public are not listening to anything he says. So unless he is coming up with something completely new, he is wasting his breath.
It is like a football manager who has lost the dressing room.
 
Eugenius said:
The fact that Starmer is despised by all ends of the spectrum above all shows how ungovernable the UK is, and how deluded the electorate is generally.

We have a low growth economy, too much debt and interest and too many old people and welfare that is basically crowding out government spending on anything productive (housing, education, infrastructure etc).

Most of the electorate is unwilling to have a serious conversation about cutting welfare and old age spending so spending can only go up.

We have an electorate that doesn't realise that for the majority of the country they already have low income taxes compared to history or other European countries, however it's politically unacceptable to raise taxes to pay for this except through stealth measures. Somehow the 150 billionaires in the UK will fund the £1trn the govt spends every year instead.

Then we have a chunk of the electorate who blame all the above on immigrants (whether legal or illegal) while also performing economic self sabotage in the form of Brexit.
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Can you point to recent examples where Labour and specifically Starmer even tried to have those debates though?

They shirk the tough conversations in favour of feeding into the narrative. That's the biggest mistake they've made and one Labour keeps making. You don't need to vilify people but you have to have an honest argument and stand up for your own conclusions.

People hate focus group Labour because they then don't trust a thing that's said.
 
Buster15 said:
It is clear that the public are not listening to anything he says. So unless he is coming up with something completely new, he is wasting his breath.
It is like a football manager who has lost the dressing room.
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I think you are right to an extent.

But also, it takes awful elections to finally jolt him into action. We know the story, he’s been snurgled away for the week coming up with a masterplan of how to change everything and to cling onto power.

The fact that he’s coming out with an entire schedule of stuff says it all. Will any of that be deliverable?
 
Buster15 said:
It is clear that the public are not listening to anything he says. So unless he is coming up with something completely new, he is wasting his breath.
It is like a football manager who has lost the dressing room.
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Exactly. Even his fellow party members seem to have had enough. Its clear now that if Labour stand to have any chance in winning the next election they need a new leader now.
 
Not a bad speech. I particularly like the point about British Steel being taken into public ownership.
Also about the EU and Brexit and the fact that Farage is not saying anything about it being a disaster for the UK.

But I very much doubt it will make much difference to the public perception of him.
 
Buster15 said:
Not a bad speech. I particularly like the point about British Steel being taken into public ownership.
Also about the EU and Brexit and the fact that Farage is not saying anything about it being a disaster for the UK.

But I very much doubt it will make much difference to the public perception of him.
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Yeah and regardless of how terrible Farage is he'll never be held accountable.

Some of the ignorance in the working class is unspeakable. My brother was telling me about one his colleagues who refuses to acknowledge that Brexit was a bad idea, saying its the implementation by not having a hard no deal exit that was the problem.

You can't reason with stupid
 
Drainy said:
Yeah and regardless of how terrible Farage is he'll never be held accountable.

Some of the ignorance in the working class is unspeakable. My brother was telling me about one his colleagues who refuses to acknowledge that Brexit was a bad idea, saying its the implementation by not having a hard no deal exit that was the problem.

You can't reason with stupid
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Yes I have heard that same thing about it being a problem with implementation. However, the way it was implemented is bound by the strict rules that the UK and the EU agreed to.
But importantly, why has Farage not been complaining about it and putting forward his solutions.
It is blatantly obvious that he doesn't have any and doesn't want Brexit to be highlighted.
 
It's always unsaid, but the EU is obviously causing a load of our budget issues. It's just weird that it's such a bad thing to say politically and even now it has to be hinted at rather than said out loud.
 
Smores said:
Can you point to recent examples where Labour and specifically Starmer even tried to have those debates though?

They shirk the tough conversations in favour of feeding into the narrative. That's the biggest mistake they've made and one Labour keeps making. You don't need to vilify people but you have to have an honest argument and stand up for your own conclusions.

People hate focus group Labour because they then don't trust a thing that's said.
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The issue is it's hard to be elected by being honest. There is still not one party who said taxes need to go up for the majority of earners. Not one who says we should end the triple lock, or tax housing wealth to stop the old draining the state. Then in power it's impossible to build any momentum for a radical programme that you didn't outline.

It's also not a coincidence that the best performing economies now are the periphery nations in Europe like Spain, Greece etc. They had no choice but to actually confront their fiscal mess head on and make proper reforms. The rest of Europe is still sticking their head in the sand and no one accepts making sacrifices.
 
Eugenius said:
The issue is it's hard to be elected by being honest.
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It is impossible to get elected by being honest and 'plausible deniability' is the name of the game for most leaders, once in power.

However, it is beginning to become clear that Sir Keir doesn't really understand the mechanics of this, i.e because he keeps accepting personal liability for things that have gone wrong, but then when someone (Olly Robbins) finally does present him with such cover... he goes and fires them!
 
Maticmaker said:
It is impossible to get elected by being honest and 'plausible deniability' is the name of the game for most leaders, once in power.

However, it is beginning to become clear that Sir Keir doesn't really understand the mechanics of this, i.e because he keeps accepting personal liability for things that have gone wrong, but then when someone (Olly Robbins) finally does present him with such cover... he goes and fires them!
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It’s really not, the last GE showed that.

All Labour needed to do was say “we aren’t the Tories”.
 
Maticmaker said:
It is impossible to get elected by being honest and 'plausible deniability' is the name of the game for most leaders, once in power.

However, it is beginning to become clear that Sir Keir doesn't really understand the mechanics of this, i.e because he keeps accepting personal liability for things that have gone wrong, but then when someone (Olly Robbins) finally does present him with such cover... he goes and fires them!
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It helps if you have an overarching vision though. Rather than lying at every opportunity.

Ultimately this Labour faction are just not that good at politics. They got carried away thinking the majority they had was down to them rather than the Tories implosion.

Then went on to implement the most negative and disastrous PR policies they could find and refused to U turn until it was too late, the damage was done.
 
Eugenius said:
The issue is it's hard to be elected by being honest. There is still not one party who said taxes need to go up for the majority of earners. Not one who says we should end the triple lock, or tax housing wealth to stop the old draining the state. Then in power it's impossible to build any momentum for a radical programme that you didn't outline.

It's also not a coincidence that the best performing economies now are the periphery nations in Europe like Spain, Greece etc. They had no choice but to actually confront their fiscal mess head on and make proper reforms. The rest of Europe is still sticking their head in the sand and no one accepts making sacrifices.
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I'd argue the number one job of a prime minister is to sell the party's vision/policy platform. You can do it directly or indirectly nudging the political discourse but you have to always be making your case. Labour do not do that, they let the media dictate it to them.

We can't keep blaming the media and voters whilst Labour vacate discussion on the countries problems. And just saying we hear you and it's important isn't discussion, it's vapid call centre platitudes.
 
Eugenius said:
The issue is it's hard to be elected by being honest. There is still not one party who said taxes need to go up for the majority of earners. Not one who says we should end the triple lock, or tax housing wealth to stop the old draining the state. Then in power it's impossible to build any momentum for a radical programme that you didn't outline.

It's also not a coincidence that the best performing economies now are the periphery nations in Europe like Spain, Greece etc. They had no choice but to actually confront their fiscal mess head on and make proper reforms. The rest of Europe is still sticking their head in the sand and no one accepts making sacrifices.
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Hard to be elected by being honest....As clearly demonstrated by Boris and Nigel. Both compulsive liars.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Keir's going nowhere. He is a fighter, and not a quitter!
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He should do what is right for the country.
I can see both sides of the argument.
The last thing the UK needs is for labour to follow what the Tories did and change the PM.

On the other hand, the country, as shown in these election results, simply doesn't like Starmer as the PM.
Bizarrely they seem to be seduced by Farage. Farage understands the benefit of not saying anything tangible and I believe he is seen as the least worst option.

Being in government, with 24 hour news and having to make difficult decisions, is far from easy. Always easier to criticise than create.
Good luck to anyone who replaces him.
 
Buster15 said:
He should do what is right for the country.
I can see both sides of the argument.
The last thing the UK needs is for labour to follow what the Tories did and change the PM.

On the other hand, the country, as shown in these election results, simply doesn't like Starmer as the PM.
Bizarrely they seem to be seduced by Farage. Farage understands the benefit of not saying anything tangible and I believe he is seen as the least worst option.

Being in government, with 24 hour news and having to make difficult decisions, is far from easy. Always easier to criticise than create.
Good luck to anyone who replaces him.
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Agree with you, can't see him surviving now though with the signatures going up. No idea who they will appoint, Streeting will be far worse IMO. Burnham hasn't even got a seat and is not guranteed to get one even in an election. Rayner feels like there will be more stuff coming out about her and the opposition will continue to throw mud at her. Depressing state of affairs.
 
Buster15 said:
He should do what is right for the country.
I can see both sides of the argument.
The last thing the UK needs is for labour to follow what the Tories did and change the PM.

On the other hand, the country, as shown in these election results, simply doesn't like Starmer as the PM.
Bizarrely they seem to be seduced by Farage. Farage understands the benefit of not saying anything tangible and I believe he is seen as the least worst option.

Being in government, with 24 hour news and having to make difficult decisions, is far from easy. Always easier to criticise than create.
Good luck to anyone who replaces him.
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This faction of the Labour right has to let go of the Labour party and return it to members having more say, a democratic party.


If they just try and get another one of their drones in charge it will lead, predictably, to a far right government.
 
Buster15 said:
He should do what is right for the country.
I can see both sides of the argument.
The last thing the UK needs is for labour to follow what the Tories did and change the PM.

On the other hand, the country, as shown in these election results, simply doesn't like Starmer as the PM.
Bizarrely they seem to be seduced by Farage. Farage understands the benefit of not saying anything tangible and I believe he is seen as the least worst option.

Being in government, with 24 hour news and having to make difficult decisions, is far from easy. Always easier to criticise than create.
Good luck to anyone who replaces him.
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Not supporting Farage, but it’s not his job to come out with tangible plans. That doesn’t mean he can’t, but clearly being in opposition or not in power is different to government.
 
VP89 said:
It's there no route for Burnham then?
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A few MP's have said they'll stand down so he can run and be elected. Probably needs to be happening now basically though. Probably a bit late even at that. NEC could just block him from running as in the manchester by election though. Needs coordination and willingness of Labour Together, which seems unlikely.
 
caid said:
A few MP's have said they'll stand down so he can run and be elected. Probably needs to be happening now basically though. Probably a bit late even at that. NEC could just block him from running as in the manchester by election though. Needs coordination and willingness of Labour Together, which seems unlikely.
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Those MPs probably want cast iron guarantees that Burnham won’t be blocked again, as otherwise it’s a pointless sacrifice.

It’s going to have to be a pretty safe seat as well. Can you imagine if he runs and loses! There’s no guarantee anymore. If Reform didn’t enter a candidate, and it’s a two way battle between him and a Green…
 
Writing was on the wall months ago.

He can't sell a vision, can't get the public behind him and the comms just hasn't cut through despite Labour actually doing some decent things.

This country is just ungovernable. The MSM are hellbent on making Farage PM. God help us.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Writing was on the wall months ago.

He can't sell a vision, can't get the public behind him and the comms just hasn't cut through despite Labour actually doing some decent things.

This country is just ungovernable. The MSM are hellbent on making Farage PM. God help us.
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It’s not ungovernable. Perhaps that’s the tactic, to make it appear it’s so bad, no one else could do it, sounds a bit like Amorim.

Only Keir Starmer makes governing look impossible.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/17...2?shareToken=0c8ba24d0e852f0e4d470e14924aeb5a

A good article from Hague showing how centre left governments in Australia and Canada have managed to deliver real change.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
It’s not ungovernable. Perhaps that’s the tactic, to make it appear it’s so bad, no one else could do it, sounds a bit like Amorim.

Only Keir Starmer makes governing look impossible.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/17...2?shareToken=0c8ba24d0e852f0e4d470e14924aeb5a

A good article from Hague showing how centre left governments in Australia and Canada have managed to deliver real change.
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Do you really think anyone else in the labour ranks could come in and be the Carrick to Starmer's Amorim then? Because I really don't see it at all at the moment.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Not supporting Farage, but it’s not his job to come out with tangible plans. That doesn’t mean he can’t, but clearly being in opposition or not in power is different to government.
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Of course he has to! Because he wants to bang on like Reform are the alternative. He is banging on about stuff like migration and wants a general election tomorrow? What are his plans to stop the boats? What are his plans for the NHS? What are his plans for public services. Forget a plan, he can’t even string a fecking sentence on these issues.
 
TheGame said:
Of course he has to! Because he wants to bang on like Reform are the alternative. He is banging on about stuff like migration and wants a general election tomorrow? What are his plans to stop the boats? What are his plans for the NHS? What are his plans for public services. Forget a plan, he can’t even string a fecking sentence on these issues.
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What are the Lib Dem’s plans?
 
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