Whatever the changes, if any Labour MPs or the new leader think the Media will let up because Starmer is gone is deluded. They will continue with the shite they have been doing. It’s fun and games to them. Meanwhile Farage’s £5m is forgotten about.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) chats to author, Dan Williamson, about his new book 'If I Hadnt Seen Such Riches' which chronicles our 1990/91 European Cup Winners Cup victory, which is a trip down memory lane for those old enough to remember it and a vital history lesson for those who don't.
Agreed, if the left want him out they will have to destroy the Labour party ...which has been their goal for decades now.
'So stick to your guns or go down blazing' Sir Keir: the life chances for future millions depend on it.
The Bondi attack has made even AU politicans who were previously very critical of Israel run for the hills. Anything and everything can be called anti-semitism and nobody challenges it. Apprently even thinking Zionist expansion is bad thing is anti-semitic.
We even have an Israeli/Australian far-right provocateur trying to register political partys called "Free Palestine" and "Muslim Votes Matter" (which is an actual grass roots movement - not a political party) to try to fool Victorian voters for the Senate (where the odd voting system can give minor parties senate seats with very low votes) with the aim of getting a few votes and directing them to One Nation. What an utter shit show.
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The Labour Together bunch have realised the writing is on the wall and are going to kick starmer out and instigate a leadership election before Burnham has a chance to return to parliament.
They'll do what the can to install one of Streeting or Mahmood as PM.
They'll do what the can to install one of Streeting or Mahmood as PM.
Understood.
However, Farage knows full well that he is the leader of the opposition. So it is right that he should be telling his supporters what he would do when elected.
He must realise that there is no way back now. His speech yesterday was pretty much his last throw of the dice. And the fact that there is no real alternative makes the whole situation a complete mess.
The country urgently needs real leadership and it is not getting that. Starmer has been far more successful with foreign affairs than at home. So maybe the most dignified outcome would be for him to move into that position and let someone else become leader.
Streeting seems to have made improvements to the NHS. But others here say he is too right wing. Andy Burnham seems to be the only one who could both unite the party and appeal to the electorate. So somehow he needs to be parachooted in.
Yes and no. He’s told them some things he would do.
We may not like it, but he’s building towards an election. I’ve no idea what the Lib Dem’s stand for, but the Tories have announced some policies, but clearly not everything, as that’s what the election campaign is for - and frankly, for every party, the landscape could be very different in three years time. There’s only one party that can implement anything and that’s Labour.
Starmer could be made ambassador to the US… joking aside, Foreign Sec doesn’t seem a bad idea from one viewpoint, but the incoming PM wouldn’t want a former PM holding such an influential position, for their own credibility they would need him to move out of government. Especially as they’ve obviously not won a GE.
This forum is not a good cross section of the population - I dong see why Streeting would not appeal to the electorate (better or any worse than any other Labour MP). Burnham clearly has the benefit of not being tainted as a member of the government.
On one hand he can stand up and offer a credible narrative for change because he’s not been involved in this two year sh!t show. However thats countered by him not winning a GE, and not even being an MP during the campaign - he would struggle to be able to say he had any sort of mandate to lead the country.
All fair points. But at least none of them are David Lammy.
If he runs in any Greater Manchester constituency, he wins by a landslide. He's incredibly popular here. Even amongst Reform and Green voters. If he was allowed to run for that seat in Gorton, he would have won it easily. Hence why the Labour NEC blocked him.
This is the major thing wrong in politics now. Very easy to say something doesn't work and complain about it. But if you are proposing that you take over, you need explain how you will fix it.
The last thought out manifesto that proposed radical change to accelerate growth holistically was Corbyn's 2017 plan. But that got shot down.
Farage's manifesto so far is..."Our economy is in the shit. Nothing to do with Brexit. Nothing to do with an aging population sapping the budget dry. Just stop the dinghies and all will be good"
Wonder what happens once they stop the dinghies? Land of milk and honey assumably. Like it was before boats were invented.
Your first paragraph (I can't seem to be able to use bold) - that’s always been the case in opposition.
The SNP (another party I think are appalling) have been a single issue party for decades, and have utterly failed to deliver the governance in Scotland.
Did Labour map out exactly what they would do three years before the last GE? I just don’t think it’s a valid criticism this far out.
He doesn't even appeal to his own electorate. He won his seat in a landslide with a majority of 500. He's also tainted by his closeness to Mandelson. He'd be a terrible choice.
He must realise that there is no way back now. His speech yesterday was pretty much his last throw of the dice. And the fact that there is no real alternative makes the whole situation a complete mess. @BUSTER 15
When will Labour ever discover how to be an effective ruling party. As I lifetime Labour supporter ( one time member) I had hoped to see it happen.
With a massive majority in parliament I had my fingers crossed, but clearly the leopard will never change its spots.
When will Labour ever discover how to be an effective ruling party. As I lifetime Labour supporter ( one time member) I had hoped to see it happen.
With a massive majority in parliament I had my fingers crossed, but clearly the leopard will never change its spots.
I’m not denying that! But clearly a better choice than Reeves, Lammy or Raylor. I personally despise Miliband, and as pointed out earlier he failed to win GEs.
Aside from Burnham, who is there?
It was just a little Liz Truss reference. I really don’t have an opinion on Sir Keir.
Burnham is a 'home game' player, ran away when Corbyn was in the ascendancy.
Great for Manchester cherished like a favourite son (despite Merseyside connections), but may well struggle in 'away games'.
Cut Grandad some slack. He's like the Japanese soldier who was still fighting 29 years later.
I don't think being selected as Labour candidate for Mayor of Greater Manchester can be counted as 'running away'. From either politics or from Labour. He just had to stand down as MP to do so, as per the rules at the time.
He's been able to effect much greater influence and change as a politician here than had he not done so. It was a great move for all involved.
Who is Granddad is this scenario? Sir Keir or Sir Maticmaker?
For Burnham to become leader he needs someone loyal to give up their seat knowing that the way things are going they may be unlikely to return to parliament themselves. Then he has to win a by-election which won't be easy. Imagine if he lost the by-election to Reform FFS! And that all has to happen in time with the leadership contest. And he has to get on the ballot in the contest. It seems an uphill struggle.
It's all just so depressing.
He's been a crap prime minister.
But I don't believe anyone else in the party will do much better.
I had a bit of a realisation recently. And unfortunately, true left leaning ideology is such a fringe movement in the UK, that my preferred version of a labour government is basically an impossibility. They always have to placate right leaning ideas.
I consider the true difference between left and right as "I vote for long term societal interest" Vs "I vote for short term personal self interest". And based on that criteria I think 80%+ of people in the country lean right, especially on financial matters.
For example, the under 30 vote still seemingly votes left. But as soon as they get into middle age most move right. That isn't because they are more left leaning ideologically when they are young. It's because left leaning policies specifically benefit them in the short term because they aren't yet financially secure. That is the exact same mentality as being right leaning when they do have money, protecting their self interest.
I think most people are self-deceiving and inherently selfish. E.g. "Oh but I'm a good landlord, I don't overcharge for rent". Well that's all well and good, but you've still taken a house off the market that drives up prices for everyone at the bottom. You did it because it benefited you financially more than an alternative investment, likely knowing that you were adding to the societal problem. UK life is littered with those kinds of decisions. Look at the Thatcher years... Kept in at the time for short term economic self interest at the cost of many at the bottom, and achieved by selling off national assets, housing stock and industry at the massive cost to future generations. But many who backed it are still reaping the financial rewards now. But ironically, many of the things they now hate most about UK society are specifically a result of the politics that made them wealthy. It's all so short sighted.
Every true sentiment against left leaning policies is usually whittled down to a single argument. "You cant do that, people will abuse the system." And whenever it is muttered it is always missing two words to make it a true reflection of their actual opinion. "Like me".
Maybe we end up with the governments we deserve, which inevitably ends up in Reform in 3 years time. Bleak.
He's been a crap prime minister.
But I don't believe anyone else in the party will do much better.
I had a bit of a realisation recently. And unfortunately, true left leaning ideology is such a fringe movement in the UK, that my preferred version of a labour government is basically an impossibility. They always have to placate right leaning ideas.
I consider the true difference between left and right as "I vote for long term societal interest" Vs "I vote for short term personal self interest". And based on that criteria I think 80%+ of people in the country lean right, especially on financial matters.
For example, the under 30 vote still seemingly votes left. But as soon as they get into middle age most move right. That isn't because they are more left leaning ideologically when they are young. It's because left leaning policies specifically benefit them in the short term because they aren't yet financially secure. That is the exact same mentality as being right leaning when they do have money, protecting their self interest.
I think most people are self-deceiving and inherently selfish. E.g. "Oh but I'm a good landlord, I don't overcharge for rent". Well that's all well and good, but you've still taken a house off the market that drives up prices for everyone at the bottom. You did it because it benefited you financially more than an alternative investment, likely knowing that you were adding to the societal problem. UK life is littered with those kinds of decisions. Look at the Thatcher years... Kept in at the time for short term economic self interest at the cost of many at the bottom, and achieved by selling off national assets, housing stock and industry at the massive cost to future generations. But many who backed it are still reaping the financial rewards now. But ironically, many of the things they now hate most about UK society are specifically a result of the politics that made them wealthy. It's all so short sighted.
Every true sentiment against left leaning policies is usually whittled down to a single argument. "You cant do that, people will abuse the system." And whenever it is muttered it is always missing two words to make it a true reflection of their actual opinion. "Like me".
Maybe we end up with the governments we deserve, which inevitably ends up in Reform in 3 years time. Bleak.
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Give it Rayner until the end of the season.
The whole political landscape is a mess, however, I'm not sure what exactly changes if Starmer leaves. The UK has had 5 prime ministers (soon to be 6 if Starmer goes) since David Cameron left in July 2016 - so much chopping and changing hardly screams stablility.
Poling suggests that Labour go down to 15% of the vote under Streeting and down to five seats at the next election!
No not really, so lump them in with the same lot as the Tories and now Reform.
No, it is so we understand precedent. If no other party lays out their plans for governing 3 years before an election, why criticise a party that also hasn’t done so. Seems absurd to me.
There are multiple genuine criticisms of Reform. Criticising them for this seems like the focus is on the wrong place - those are my thoughts.
Definitely give him the job then!
It seems like using the 2008 financial crisis to implement austerity measures, gut public services and make people worse off was a bad idea. Then pushing all the blame for that failure on the EU and offering a referendum on membership, just to ensure you stay in power for a little while longer. The Tories destroyed our economy. We need a government to fix it rapidly, even if it means borrowing more and tax increases. Getting Farage in and doubling down on the decline will only end one way. Violently.
Maybe that’s for the best. The revolution needs to come sooner rather than later so we can end the hyper capitalist hellscape we currently live in.
Get the guillotines out
You are joking of course?
Once JC was in the driving seat of Opposition Leader...Andy took the first train back North.. to establish his own 'Nprthern Power house' couldn't wait to get out of Westminister....oh how quickly we forget, how he disappeared in a cloud of dust just outside the M25
How does presenting your plan, loose vision even, for the future of the country seem absurd? That is everything wrong with politics. The likes of the greens and crobyn's labour get attcked constantly years before elections having to justify and cost out their proposed policies. The Tories and Reform can say what they like without any scrutiny. Even if they are in power.
Thank you, but it is more like 50 years...in all honesty I waved the white flag after Brown couldn't decide whether to stick or twist!
The youngsters have alot to learn...if Starmer goes, afraid it will be via a very long...' hard way'...do they still offer £10 one way tickets to Oz...could be a good deal if you are under 30yrs old
@thisisnottaken1 is the only sub-30, gen z member of this forum. The only problem is if he moves to Australia, he'll have to start posting upside down in the counting thread. Logistical nightmare.
We are going far too much into this - as often is the case in here.
My point was, that if no other party lays out their plans for governing 3 years before a GE, they why is that criticism directed towards one party.
That’s all.
Are there bigger issues. Obviously. The left fight amongst themselves to destroy each other. There’s no need for media intervention. But again that’s a different matter.
It's slim pickings. Not sure Lammy and Reeves are even contenders or have the backing anyway. Streeting will be an absolute disaster.
Neither have been mentioned, which is unusual given their appointments. Perhaps they or their advisors have a rare case of self awareness.
I read the list of MPs who have publicly said Starmer should go - and very few have any name recognition. There must be someone on the fringes who has been identified as a future talent?
Otherwise someone like Hilary Benn has always been a credible politician, although he generally stays out of the limelight, so I assume it’s not a role his would want.