Keir Starmer Labour Leader

[Eugenius]

Mandelson doesn't view himself as Jewish and wasn't raised Jewish(And his dad wasn't really Jewish according to Mandelson).

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The issue is in the intent of the comment, regardless of whether Mandelson considers himself Jewish or not. If the comment was said either a) with the context/knowledge of Mandelson's heritage or b) used in the knowledge it was a negative Jewish trope then it's antisemitism.

I honestly don't know, but it's a very odd expression he's used.

 

[macheda14]

We're completely into giant douche and turd sandwich territory now. How anyone could actually want to vote for either of these corporate shills is beyond me.

Purely because one isn’t Boris Johnson. I’d much rather a centrist government than a right wing one, wouldn’t you?

 

[Jippy]

There's this desire to just rewrite history so the two democratic results preceding 2019 don't really count, and therefore pretend that 'this was the one that done it'. Politically it should have been dead after 2016 – the FPTP majority for Brexit was/is huge. My main evidence of Starmer being duplicitous isn't changing tack on remain though, rather the pledges he made during the leadership election which he seems to actively enjoy reneging on.

Plus, if you read the second half of my post, I pointed out more people voted for explicitly anti-Brexit or pro-referendum positions in 2019 than in 2017. Obviously FPTP kills it, but electorally pro-EU manifestos did far better in 2019 than in 2017. I just feel sorry for the people (and Labour members) for whom staying the EU genuinely is something they feel passionate about, because they've been taken for an utter ride by people and organisations that have abandoned that cause as soon as it wasn't in their self-interest to pursue it. Would Farage have stopped campaigning against the EU if he'd lost the referendum?

Labour leaders should definitely model themselves on Farage.
At the beginning of every policy meeting there should be a minute's silent contemplation as each member asks themselves: what would Nigel do?

 

[Jippy]

Mandelson doesn't view himself as Jewish and wasn't raised Jewish(And his dad wasn't really Jewish according to Mandelson).

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He's also described his father as "overtly Jewish' and said he was "aware of my refracted Jewishness" growing up.

He clearly has a more complex relationship with his ancestry than that tweet suggests.

"I wish I had learned a bit more about the religion."

In fact, Lord Mandelson "still keeps Friday nights, particularly whenever I go to my friend (Lord) David Alliance. It's not that I am religious. It's the extended family, which part of me wants to be part of."

https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/mandelson-on-judaism-lord-levy-and-his-jc-dad-1.16937

McCluskey belongs in a past decade. Turns out it was 1930s Germany.

 

[Sweet Square]

The issue is in the intent of the comment, regardless of whether Mandelson considers himself Jewish or not. If the comment was said either a) with the context/knowledge of Mandelson's heritage or b) used in the knowledge it was a negative Jewish trope then it's antisemitism.

I honestly don't know, but it's a very odd expression he's used.

You're just moving the goal posts tbh.

Again Mandelson isn't jewish, if you want to talk about the comment as a general anti semitic then ok that's a starting point(Although it would be a pretty stupid conversation imo.)but to just say well he's half Jewish is both inaccurate and lazy.

The reason Mccluskey used that passes because 1)he's 70 years old and 2)Mandelson has a history of misleading mortgage payments(Which granted mccluskey knows a thing or two about as well).

It was nothing more than party infighting but of course idiots have to turn it into something more(Turns out most higher ups in the Labour party don't actually give a shit about anti semitism).

 

[Sweet Square]

He's also described his father as "overtly Jewish' and said he was "aware of my refracted Jewishness" growing up.

He clearly has a more complex relationship with his ancestry than that tweet suggests.



https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/mandelson-on-judaism-lord-levy-and-his-jc-dad-1.16937

And as I've shown he's literally said the completely opposite as well. Also who doesn't have complex relationship with their ancestry. I would like to know about about the history of Catholicism(I've been to church a few times as well) but I'm still an atheist. I would find it insulting both personally and for actual believers if random people on the internet tried to claim I was subjected to anti Catholic bigotry.

McCluskey belongs in a past decade. Turns out it was 1930s Germany.

 

[sun_tzu]

You're just moving the goal posts tbh.

Again Mandelson and his heritage aren't jewish,

Family[edit]
Peter Mandelson was born in Hendon, Middlesex,[8] on 21 October 1953,[5] the son of Mary Joyce (née Morrison) and George Norman Mandelson.[9] His father's family were Jewish; his grandfather had founded the Harrow United Synagogue. His father (known as Tony) was the advertising manager of The Jewish Chronicle[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mandelson#:~:text=Early life-,Family,founded the Harrow United Synagogue.

no jewish heritage you say?

 

[Sweet Square]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mandelson#:~:text=Early life-,Family,founded the Harrow United Synagogue.

no jewish heritage you say?

Blame auto correct and fat Irish fingers. Check the edited post.

 

[sun_tzu]

Blame auto correct. Check the edited posts.

you edited that after i quoted you ... thats ballsy even by your low standards to claiming you accidentally typed he has no Jewish heritage as a fat finger typo

 

[Sweet Square]

Mandelson like the rest of us is going to burn in eternity for not believing in the true God of Allah(Or other dude with the elephant face).

 

[Eugenius]

You're just moving the goal posts tbh.

Again Mandelson isn't jewish, if you want to talk about the comment as a general anti semitic then ok that's a starting point(Although it would be a pretty stupid conversation imo.)but to just say well he's half Jewish is both inaccurate and lazy.

The reason Mccluskey used that passes because 1)he's 70 years old and 2)Mandelson has a history of misleading mortgage payments(Which granted mccluskey knows a thing or two about as well).

It was nothing more than party infighting but of course idiots have to turn it into something more(Turns out most higher ups in the Labour party don't actually give a shit about anti semitism).

It's not moving the goal posts. It doesn't matter whether Mandelson identifies as Jewish or not. It's about the intent to offend/abuse - which as I said cannot be proved either way. All that can be said is a) it's not rocket science to work out Mandelson has some Jewish heritage and b) he's used a very odd phrase which does sound like a trope. Which can plausibly be innocently explained away (and yes I think your explanations are reasonable) but it's the combination of both a) and b) is why it's plausibly deemed to be Anti-Semitic.

In your reasoning I could call Ryan Giggs the n-word because he's a quarter black, but it wouldn't be deemed racist because he doesn't identify as black.

 

[Sweet Square]

you edited that after i quoted you ... thats ballsy even by your low standards to claiming you accidentally typed he has no Jewish heritage as a fat finger typo

Sorry to break the news to you but I actually have you on ignore for 99% of the time.

So honestly I didn't see your post until after I had edited it and click the show ignore content button.

 

[sun_tzu]

Sorry to break the news to you but I actually have you on ignore for 99% of the time.

So honestly I didn't see your post until after I had edited it and click the show ignore content button.

I guess you must have accidentally clicked the ignore button with your fat fingers

 

[Sweet Square]

It's not moving the goal posts. It doesn't matter whether Mandelson identifies as Jewish or not.

What use him as a example then ? Why say he's half Jewish if it doesn't matter ?

In your reasoning I could call Ryan Giggs the n-word because he's a quarter black, but it wouldn't be deemed racist because he doesn't identify as black.

Well that was quick

if you want to talk about the comment as a general anti semitic then ok that's a starting point(Although it would be a pretty stupid conversation imo.)

Also in general but maybe just don't say the N word at all.

 

[Sweet Square]

I guess you must have accidentally clicked the ignore button with your fat fingers

Ah yet another Labour member showing clear anti Catholic/Irish bigotry and invalidating my experience.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I guess you must have accidentally clicked the ignore button with your fat fingers

Tbf it was probably more to do with your constant stream of shite posts in this thread.

 

[sun_tzu]

Ah yet another Labour member showing clear anti Catholic/Irish bigotry and invalidating my experience.

well only one person called them fat irish fingers...

Blame auto correct and fat Irish fingers. Check the edited post.

 

[Sweet Square]

I don't even like the guy but jesus he's doing a far better job holding the Tories "accountable" on covid than Starmer

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[Smores]

It's not moving the goal posts. It doesn't matter whether Mandelson identifies as Jewish or not. It's about the intent to offend/abuse - which as I said cannot be proved either way. All that can be said is a) it's not rocket science to work out Mandelson has some Jewish heritage and b) he's used a very odd phrase which does sound like a trope. Which can plausibly be innocently explained away (and yes I think your explanations are reasonable) but it's the combination of both a) and b) is why it's plausibly deemed to be Anti-Semitic.

In your reasoning I could call Ryan Giggs the n-word because he's a quarter black, but it wouldn't be deemed racist because he doesn't identify as black.

How in the hell is using the N word remotely similar to discussions about wealth or elite status which would only be offensive in a given context. Terrible example.

You also can't be quarter jewish, I'm something like 6% ashkenazi that doesn't make me 6% jewish ffs.

By not rocket science to work out what exactly do you mean? It isn't common knowledge but yes anyone can google but most probably don't do that before claiming a Lord isn't down with the working man. Christ i really dislike McCluskey but this is obviously a stretch.

 

[Sweet Square]

well only one person called them fat irish fingers...

Fat finger regardless of where they are from have historically been a anti Irish stereotype. The fact you don't know this and have yet to acknowledge my experience shows you clearly don't understand you're own bigotry.

For my safety and the safety of my community, I can't vote for the Labour party in 2024.

This is a joke, I'm going a joke! To show how insane the current situation is.

 

[Smores]

I don't even like the guy but jesus he's doing a far better job holding the Tories "accountable" on covid than Starmer

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Agreed he's been absolutely superb. I dare say there's many who fall on the centrist side that if taken out of Westminster would also rely shine through not having to be considerate of the Daily Mail effect.

 

[Sweet Square]

Agreed he's been absolutely superb. I dare say there's many who fall on the centrist side that if taken out of Westminster would also rely shine through not having to be considerate of the Daily Mail effect.

Before the Corbyn surge in the 2015 leadership election, I'm pretty sure Burnham was the favourite candidate for the Unite union. He's been very impressive lately.

Agree with you on the Westminster effect.When people complain about politics as too London centric, they are mostly just talking about Westminster, regardless of ideology it really tends to isolate all Labour leaders.

 

[Sweet Square]

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Manchester independence incoming!

 

[esmufc07]

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Manchester independence incoming!

The North should just join Scotland and declare independence.

 

[Oldyella]

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Manchester independence incoming!

Would be nice. feck Westminster right off.

 

[Sweet Square]

The North should just join Scotland and declare independence.

Would be nice. feck Westminster right off.

Guaranteed CL football

 

[Eugenius]

How in the hell is using the N word remotely similar to discussions about wealth or elite status which would only be offensive in a given context. Terrible example.

You also can't be quarter jewish, I'm something like 6% ashkenazi that doesn't make me 6% jewish ffs.

By not rocket science to work out what exactly do you mean? It isn't common knowledge but yes anyone can google but most probably don't do that before claiming a Lord isn't down with the working man. Christ i really dislike McCluskey but this is obviously a stretch.

I don't know how it's not obvious that using a weird expression that has some soundings of a Jewish trope to someone who has Jewish heritage could easily be seen as anti semitic. Whether or not it actually was I don't know (and I have no fight to pick on this). I used an example of blatant racism vs dogwhistle, but the premise still stands.

Mandelson is a Jewish name is the obvious one, his grandfather founded a synagogue and his dad worked for a Jewish newspaper. The fact he doesn't identify as Jewish doesn't strictly mean his Jewish heritage is irrelevant or that McCluskey's comments weren't based on it.

 

[Untied]

Labour leaders should definitely model themselves on Farage.
At the beginning of every policy meeting there should be a minute's silent contemplation as each member asks themselves: what would Nigel do?

Not really talking about Starmer here, just the leadership of the Pro-Remain campaigns generally. It's the entire reason Remain lost and kept losing, because it actually had no political leaders as dedicated to it, and as effective at focusing the political energy, as Farage was/is. It was all opportunism.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Agreed he's been absolutely superb. I dare say there's many who fall on the centrist side that if taken out of Westminster would also rely shine through not having to be considerate of the Daily Mail effect.

He has represented the people.of Manchester well. Also highlighted the fact that the government not following the science.

 

[Dobba]

And down goes Pledge 6. Down goes Pledge 6!

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[Shamwow]

And down goes Pledge 6. Down goes Pledge 6!

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Why the feck would we whip to abstain on that?! Argh

 

[Fluctuation0161]

And down goes Pledge 6. Down goes Pledge 6!

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Let's welcome the anti immigration voters back to Labour with open arms.

Am I doing it right?

Because if this, sell out of values does not win the next election for them then what has Labour stood for over 5 years? Even if they do win, what will they stand for in the following 5 years?

 

[Dobba]

Let's welcome the anti immigration voters back to Labour with open arms.

Am I doing it right?

Because if this, sell out of values does not win the next election for them then what has Labour stood for over 5 years? Even if they do win, what will they stand for in the following 5 years?

Whatever the exact opposite of what's in Labour's manifesto is.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

And down goes Pledge 6. Down goes Pledge 6!

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so forensic, adults in the room, under new management

 

[Dobba]

Beginning to think there is another reason he's got so much pro bono work on his CV.

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[Fluctuation0161]

Beginning to think there is another reason he's got so much pro bono work on his CV.

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Jesus. I think his values are becoming much clearer. Not pretty.

Too willing to sacrifice freedom for "security". We all know where that ends up.

 

[nickm]

Jesus. I think his values are becoming much clearer. Not pretty.

Too willing to sacrifice freedom for "security". We all know where that ends up.

Quite nice to have a labour leader who has unequivocal views on terrorists, for a change.

 

[nickm]

Damaged - really damaged - the Tories with the free school meals vote too.

Quite nice to have a labour leader with a clear sense of parliamentary strategy, for a change.

 

[sun_tzu]

Quite nice to have a labour leader who has unequivocal views on terrorists, for a change.

Tbf so did jezbollah...

1. Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
2. Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
3. Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
4. Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
5. Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
6. Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
7. Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
8. Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
9. Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
10. Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
11. Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
12. Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
13. Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
14. Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
15. Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
16. Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
17. Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
18. Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
19. Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
20. Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
21. Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
22. Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
23. Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
24. Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
25. Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
26. Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
27. Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
28. Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
29. Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
30. Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
31. Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
32. Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
33. Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
34. Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
35. Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
36. Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
37. Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
38. Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
39. Opposed shoot to kill.
40. Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
41. Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
42. Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
43. Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
44. Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
45. Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
46. Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
47. Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
48. Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
49. Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
50. Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
51. Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
52. Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
53. Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
54. Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
55. Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
56. Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
57. Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
58. Received endorsement from Hamas.
59. Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
60. Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
61. Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
62. Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
63. Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
64. Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
65. Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
66. Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
67. Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
68. Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
69. Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
70. Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
71. Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
72. Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
73. Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
74. Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
75. Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
76. Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
77. Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
78. Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
79. Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
80. Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
81. Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
82. Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
83. Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
84. Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
85. Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
86. Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
87. Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
88. Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
89. Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
90. Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
91. Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
92. Voted against banning support for the IRA.
93. Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
94. Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
95. Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
96. Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
97. Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
98. Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
99. Voted against control orders.
100. Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.

At least starmers view will probably be closer to the majority of the publics

 

[Smores]