Mogget
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As a British Asian, I also approve of his tweet.am i allowed to "as an indian" approve of this?
As a British Asian, I also approve of his tweet.am i allowed to "as an indian" approve of this?
some of my best friends are gujjus!As a British Asian, I also approve of his tweet.
He wants to deport a fascist. I don't see the problem.
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still the vaccine bounce.Only 5 more points to go!!!
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It's remarkable, but then I guess he has his own iron dome in the form of the media, who've been on all-out attack mode on Starmer for the past week or so.Just the CCJ, the 15k holiday expense report, and enquiry into cronyism this week then for Boris.
Just the CCJ, the 15k holiday expense report, and enquiry into cronyism this week then for Boris.
Replace life threatening diseases with tory sleaze.It's remarkable, but then I guess he has his own iron dome in the form of the media, who've been on all-out attack mode on Starmer for the past week or so.
The Cameron/Greensill grubbiness has not stuck at all as yet more Tory sleaze.
still the vaccine bounce.
That's a good metaphor, the media in this country is ridiculously biased.It's remarkable, but then I guess he has his own iron dome in the form of the media, who've been on all-out attack mode on Starmer for the past week or so.
The Cameron/Greensill grubbiness has not stuck at all as yet more Tory sleaze.
The media attacks are clearly working, but Starmer is making it too easy for them. The Corbyn hatchet jobs were so often hysterical, with him pictured next to an ex-IRA guy or 'dancing' on way to the Cenotaph etc, but with Starmer's blandness and apparent lack of policies, the likes of the DM can slay him with more balanced pieces, at least on the face of it. It's a more insidious chipping away at his support, like this in the DM today.That's a good metaphor, the media in this country is ridiculously biased.
I'm no fan of Starmer but the fact he is so far behind this government is inexplicable without external factors such as the media.
The country is broken.
It's a truly disastrous strategy because he's actively worked to cast out the left in order to cater to what he & his team perceive as 'working class votes' (there's overlap there, but no point getting into that discussion) and he's not exactly courted those in a higher social class either, apparently wearing a good suit isn't enough despite what we heard about Corbyn.The media attacks are clearly working, but Starmer is making it too easy for them. The Corbyn hatchet jobs were so often hysterical, with him pictured next to an ex-IRA guy or 'dancing' on way to the Cenotaph etc, but with Starmer's blandness and apparent lack of policies, the likes of the DM can slay him with more balanced pieces, at least on the face of it. It's a more insidious chipping away at his support, like this in the DM today.
JANET STREET-PORTER: I've backed Labour all my life but like a lot of decent people in the middle I now have nobody to vote for
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...T-PORTER-Ive-backed-Labour-life-vote-for.html
This is true. I just wish more Labour members/supporters/MPs understood this before Starmer.That's a good metaphor, the media in this country is ridiculously biased.
I'm no fan of Starmer but the fact he is so far behind this government is inexplicable without external factors such as the media.
The country is broken.
We could see it with Miliband even, his momentum was halted by the way he ate a sandwich ffs. The warning signs were there 6/7 years ago.This is true. I just wish more Labour members/supporters/MPs understood this before Starmer.
Rather than sabotaging their own campaign under Corbyn.
The irony of Jewish Labour leader Ed Milliband being slaughtered in the press for eating a bacon sandwich wrong. Then under the next leader the same press slaughter Labour for being "anti semitic".We could see it with Miliband even, his momentum was halted by the way he ate a sandwich ffs. The warning signs were there 6/7 years ago.
It became relentless under Corbyn for multiple reasons, and shows no signs of stopping under Starmer.
I was hoping the tide would turn whenever Murdoch finally dies, but the Heads of a lot of these institutions just coincidently happen to be heavily involved with the Tory party too, so this will just continue. Or perhaps the electorate will somehow educate themselves, but that seems even less likely.
Thats lovely but actually the winning votes are in places where you have to attract a broad coalition of people, which has to include people who may not usually have a great allegiance to your party or ideology.Nothing, they're just letting their bias against the left mean the answer to every question is purge the left, it's cutein a way. Centrism is in a bad way the last week they're all very confused about what nonsense position to take so they can get back to their apparent intellectual high ground.
The votes are in that magical place where you pretend to be from neither the left or right as if political leaning is more important than the popularity of actual policy.
Yeah you miss the point, you don't win their vote by pretending (and transparently so) to be the embodiment of triangulation you win it by presenting policy that has wide appeal.Thats lovely but actually the winning votes are in places where you have to attract a broad coalition of people, which has to include people who may not usually have a great allegiance to your party or ideology.
Agreed.Yeah you miss the point, you don't win their vote by pretending (and transparently so) to be the embodiment of triangulation you win it by presenting policy that has wide appeal.
No one likes the empty suit led by focus groups.
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Can't fecking stand the Tories, I don't like inherited power and I would like a decent alternative that gives more people a decent shot in life. I'm suspicious of ideology in general, it can be as much a straitjacket as means of understanding. Fact is, there are lots of people like myself that you need to vote for you.Why do you even support Labour? Why don't you just join the Tories or the lib dems, you're clearly not in any way left wing so why be a part of an inherently left wing movement?
You don't need lots of detailed policy at this point in the electoral cycle and getting hung up on specific policy now, is a mistake. But I grant you, people do need to understand what the party stands for, the values that will shape the policies that will come later, and Labour are a million miles from that at the moment.Yeah you miss the point, you don't win their vote by pretending (and transparently so) to be the embodiment of triangulation you win it by presenting policy that has wide appeal.
No one likes the empty suit led by focus groups.
You may stand corrected, I don't. Although I do unfortunately live in a heavily Tory area, so my vote is more symbolic than useful.
What I think is there is an element of the left that is and has always been electoral kryptonite, and for the sake of Labour's prospects as a whole, needs to be kept in some kind of check. When that element of the party defines labour, as it did at the start of Kinnock's leadership, and throughout Corbyn's, Labour becomes unelectable. This is an evidence based position.It seems fairly clear this is an ideological disagreement, which is fine, but I can't see us finding much common ground.
You admit that you're happy for Starmer to serve a similar role to Kinnock and basically sacrifice short term electoral success to wage an internal war on the left of his own party. You justify this because you believe there is no other path to electoral success than to purge the left and set the groundwork for a charismatic centrist leader to take advantage when the economic and political climate allows.
Well maybe. I guess the alternative argument is that it's do or die for Labour as demographics change. This may not be just a battle for electability, this may be a battle about whether there is going to a Labour Party at all. That should be focusing minds.Whilst I agree that there isn't currently any leadership candidates that seem viable and electoral success in the short term for a left of centre party wouldn't be easy, I don't see any merit electorally or morally for Starmer's current internal war with the left. I also think it's morally bankrupt when you consider that Starmer was elected by Labour members and given a mandate based on his 10 pledges, with party unity being at the forefront of his campaign. Even if I did agree that purging the left was the only way to electability, as a believer in democracy I would still be against doing that without a mandate from the members.
I get you want something super inspirational and idealistic that rallies people to the cause and I understand why you are suspicious of centrism as a result. I'm just not sure there are enough voters who agree. I'd add I think critics of "centrism" (whatever that is really) mostly confuse aims and means but that's another discussion.Anyway I think we fundamentally disagree on the merits of centrism and I don't think either of us will change the other's mind. Fundamentally I'm not prepared for the Labour party's position to be calibrated to wherever the Conservatives and their supporting media class happen to he at the time, because there's too much at stake. I also think that in the period of climate emergency and late stage capitalism that we're living through, finding a mythical centre ground is impossible when real conditions for an increasing size of the population continue to get worse.
To end on a note of agreement, at least we (and the electorate) both agree that Starmer is fairly useless.
Nah, you should vote lib dems. Stop trying to wreck the Labour party with your nasty neo lib views and move on.Can't fecking stand the Tories, I don't like inherited power and I would like a decent alternative that gives more people a decent shot in life. I'm suspicious of ideology in general, it can be as much a straitjacket as means of understanding. Fact is, there are lots of people like myself that you need to vote for you.
Oh man. Telling people who have voted for you, and would like to vote for you again, to feck off... Absolutely priceless. Thanks for illustrating beautifully why attitudes like yours are such a problem.Nah, you should vote lib dems. Stop trying to wreck the Labour party with your nasty neo lib views and move on.
Since labour won't be in power to reduce child poverty by 1% let along 50%, rest assured the party's moral purity will remain uncompromised.Based on his tweet, Starmer's borrowing Biden's plan to halve child poverty. Hopefully he'll make a speech in the next few weeks explaining which half of child poverty he plans to keep.
Since when did the spy cop abstaining Starmer led Labour Party have any morals?Since labour won't be in power to reduce child poverty by 1% let along 50%, rest assured the party's moral purity will remain uncompromised.
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It has taken over a year of covertly breaking those pledges. Now he is officially breaking his promise to the Labour membership.Starmer's third relaunch of his first year as leader is titled Progressive Britain.
The 10 pledges have been officially binned and the first proposed policy is to means test Universal Basic Income.
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Go out in the real world and start attacking people like that and see how it gets you. Nobody uses these cringe political compass terms like to win an argument besides online echo chambers.Nah, you should vote lib dems. Stop trying to wreck the Labour party with your nasty neo lib views and move on.
Is that from today? It could be Nick Thomas-Symonds
Honestly I don't know. It could be the other bloke but that wouldn't be as funny.Is that from today? It could be Nick Thomas-Symonds