Kepa Arrizabalaga

JPRouve

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VDS didn't really stay at the top. He started well, flopped at Juve and had to slum it at Fulham for years before doing great things at Man United in his 30s. He's the poster boy for late bloomers.

Buffon has been pretty shit for a while now. He's ruining his legacy in my opinion.
He didn't actually flop at Juventus, he was mainly good but the emergence of Buffon saw Juventus bet on the italian. And he wasn't a late bloomer, he moved to Juventus as one of the best GK around doing it on the biggest stages wiith Ajax.
 

Pennywise

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Kepa is absolutely garbage. Chelsea have been robbed blind there
 

giorno

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He didn't actually flop at Juventus, he was mainly good but the emergence of Buffon saw Juventus bet on the italian. And he wasn't a late bloomer, he moved to Juventus as one of the best GK around doing it on the biggest stages wiith Ajax.
No, he flopped at juventus, big time. He was a laughing stock when he left, it's the whole reason why juventus were so happy to pay through the nose for Buffon

Buffon was a wonderkid btw, he was the best in the world by 21

Iker Casillas on the other hand was a lot like Kepa, clearly talented but inconsistent, and he peaked at 28
 

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VDS didn't really stay at the top. He started well, flopped at Juve and had to slum it at Fulham for years before doing great things at Man United in his 30s. He's the poster boy for late bloomers.

Buffon has been pretty shit for a while now. He's ruining his legacy in my opinion.
What @JPRouve said. He won a CL with Ajax. «He started well» :lol:
 

Handré1990

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That's starting about as well as possible!

His career started well and ended well. The middle bit was pretty meh.
It was just such a low ball compliment! The point still stands, it’s not as easy as ‘2+2=4’ in this discussion. The general rule of keepers peak later doesn’t hold water. Some do, some don’t. The best keepers of the last decade didn’t.
 

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Allisson is the best keeper around. It's official as well. They gave him a prize :)
 

giorno

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Keepers do tend to peak later, same as CBs

The top ones maybe don't, but they're the exception, and there are exceptions even to that. Like i said, Iker wasn't much different from Kepa at the same age
 

JPRouve

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No, he flopped at juventus, big time. He was a laughing stock when he left, it's the whole reason why juventus were so happy to pay through the nose for Buffon

Buffon was a wonderkid btw, he was the best in the world by 21

Iker Casillas on the other hand was a lot like Kepa, clearly talented but inconsistent, and he peaked at 28
Kepa has no business being named with the others and I disagree with the VDS take, it's one of those exaggeration that exists in football. Juventus went for the undeniably best and that's about it, they expected more from VDS but he wasn't actually bad for them.
 

JPRouve

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Keepers do tend to peak later, same as CBs

The top ones maybe don't, but they're the exception, and there are exceptions even to that. Like i said, Iker wasn't much different from Kepa at the same age
No keeper don't peak later and it's pretty easy to see that it's not the case, none of the current best goalkeepers peaked late at the exception of Navas.
 

giorno

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Kepa has no business being named with the others and I disagree with the VDS take, it's one of those exaggeration that exists in football. Juventus went for the undeniably best and that's about it, they expected more from VDS but he wasn't actually bad for them.
It really wasn't. VDS was indeed seen as the best when he was signed. Within two years juventus opponents openly talked about their gameplan being "just put a lot of shots on target, give their keeper more chances to make mistakes and we know he will"
Again, he was a laughing stock when he left. There's a reason he ended up at fulham instead of being picked up by another club

There was a lot of speculation he had poor eyesight
No keeper don't peak later and it's pretty easy to see that it's not the case, none of the current best goalkeepers peaked late at the exception of Navas.
Buffon peaked between 25-30. Neuer the same. Iker the same. Oliver Kahn the same. Etc, etc, etc

That they were already exceptional when younger doesn't change that(and again, Iker was not exceptional when younger, just exceptionally talented)

Alisson was Scesny's backup two years ago. Scesny was a joke at arsenal. I can go on?
 

JPRouve

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It really wasn't. VDS was indeed seen as the best when he was signed. Within two years juventus opponents openly talked about their gameplan being "just put a lot of shots on target, give their keeper more chances to make mistakes and we know he will"
Again, he was a laughing stock when he left. There's a reason he ended up at fulham instead of being picked up by another club

There was a lot of speculation he had poor eyesight

Buffon peaked between 25-30. Neuer the same. Iker the same. Oliver Kahn the same. Etc, etc, etc

That they were already exceptional when younger doesn't change that(and again, Iker was not exceptional when younger, just exceptionally talented)

Alisson was Scesny's backup two years ago. Scesny was a joke at arsenal. I can go on?
Which is when most players peak in all positions.
 

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It really wasn't. VDS was indeed seen as the best when he was signed. Within two years juventus opponents openly talked about their gameplan being "just put a lot of shots on target, give their keeper more chances to make mistakes and we know he will"
Again, he was a laughing stock when he left. There's a reason he ended up at fulham instead of being picked up by another club
He would have left even earlier but Juventus told him that they weren't signing a goalkeeper during the negotiations with Buffon so he wasn't looking to move that summer. That summer was a volatile goalkeeper market in Italy. Roma, Inter and Parma all had bought keepers so he had to decide to leave in the middle of the summer after clubs have long since started to look for keepers. VDS wanted to leave as soon as possible and play and not wait until next summer for Ajax, Liverpool or Dortmund who all wanted him. Fulham at the time had recently been taken over by Al-Fayed and were ambitious. Jean Tigana was managing them who had done a great job with Monaco. They also bought French international Marlet for a record fee. Turned out Al-Fayed is a bit of a nutter which didn't make for a nice work environment for managers.
 

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He would have left even earlier but Juventus told him that they weren't signing a goalkeeper during the negotiations with Buffon so he wasn't looking to move that summer. That summer was a volatile goalkeeper market in Italy. Roma, Inter and Parma all had bought keepers so he had to decide to leave in the middle of the summer after clubs have long since started to look for keepers. VDS wanted to leave as soon as possible and play and not wait until next summer for Ajax, Liverpool or Dortmund who all wanted him. Fulham at the time had recently been taken over by Al-Fayed and were ambitious. Jean Tigana was managing them who had done a great job with Monaco. They also bought French international Marlet for a record fee. Turned out Al-Fayed is a bit of a nutter which didn't make for a nice work environment for managers.
They did have that incredible statue outside the ground though.
 

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Based on what you've said in this thread I'm sure there is no limit to what you believe

Like I said I'm now done on this
Good, it‘ll immensely increase the quality of this thread.
 

giorno

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Which is when most players peak in all positions.
Eh, fair enough :D

Point stands though, 25 is still relatively young

Mind, i think it's unlikely he'll ever turn into a top top goalkeeper...but it's happened before, and the talent is there
 

JPRouve

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Eh, fair enough :D

Point stands though, 25 is still relatively young

Mind, i think it's unlikely he'll ever turn into a top top goalkeeper...but it's happened before, and the talent is there
It is indeed relatively young but generally good to great goalkeepers are already very good and close to their best around that age even when it's not actually their peak yet. And as I said earlier, a large part are actually among the best when they are teenagers or in their early 20s, Kepa would be an outlier which is why I mentioned Navas, for all I know he could have the same type of career but that's relatively rare.
 

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Ask Sampdoria fans then :lol:

Romero is bang average at best. Kepa is young, and inconsistent, but he's a comfortably better first choice than romero, ffs :houllier:

Kepa's pretty much an average gk with high potential right now
Absolute bollocks. Or we could just make our own minds up considering Romero has been nothing short of exceptional for us. If De Gea had left in 2015 we'd have had him as our first choice, with Navas getting overwhelmed with the physicality of the premier league.
 

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I think that @charlenefan has a point here. The goalkeepers that people use as examples are generally undeniably top class at 25 years old and they are in fact top class earlier than that with many being wonderkids. Late bloomers among top goalkeepers aren't all that common and outside of maybe Keylor Navas, I don't really have anyone that would be a recent example. What goalkeepers do is that their peak last longer, they tend to reach it relatively early and stay at that level for a long time.
Kasper Schmeichel one could argue?
 

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Absolute bollocks. Or we could just make our own minds up considering Romero has been nothing short of exceptional for us. If De Gea had left in 2015 we'd have had him as our first choice, with Navas getting overwhelmed with the physicality of the premier league.
Being a good number two doesn't necessarily translate to being just as good as number 1, the roles are totally different.

I mean for the short time Romero was number 1 (while the DDG shit was getting sorted) didn't he gift Swansea a victory in a manner that would make Roberto blush? Hasn't goalie been considered a major weakness for Argentina for some time?

I'm not saying he's not a very good back up, he's probably the best since Cudicini was our number 2, however filling in excellently in what for the most part are lower pressure games doesn't always translate to being just as good as a number one.
 

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We won 2-0 in the first leg, when we could’ve easily won 6-0. He had an amazing game.
Was it not 0-1 with Giggs scoring?

Also second leg, at OT, Neuer was nowhere near as impressive as the first.
 
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Paxi

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Being a good number two doesn't necessarily translate to being just as good as number 1, the roles are totally different.

I mean for the short time Romero was number 1 (while the DDG shit was getting sorted) didn't he gift Swansea a victory in a manner that would make Roberto blush? Hasn't goalie been considered a major weakness for Argentina for some time?

I'm not saying he's not a very good back up, he's probably the best since Cudicini was our number 2, however filling in excellently in what for the most part are lower pressure games doesn't always translate to being just as good as a number one.
I cannot remember Romero with any rocky performances at all for us. As to being a back up goal keeper, yeah it's a different role but you still need to be a very good player. I've always maintained that Romero deserved his chance should De Gea leave.
 

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Was it not 0-1 with Giggs scoring?

Also second leg, at OT, Neuer was nowhere near as impressive as the first.
I remember 0-2, Rooney and Giggs I think. True, but he felt like a wall in that first game, after we scored it felt like nerves settled though.
 

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This guy doesn't impress me at all. Chelsea should be looking for a new goalie.
 

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This guy doesn't impress me at all. Chelsea should be looking for a new goalie.
Completely agreed. In addition, early rumblings are that Lampard agrees as well.

If Onana is on the market Kepa should be binned ASAP. Onana is world class and Kepa is at the moment a failed prospect.
 

jymufc20

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VDS didn't really stay at the top. He started well, flopped at Juve and had to slum it at Fulham for years before doing great things at Man United in his 30s. He's the poster boy for late bloomers.

Buffon has been pretty shit for a while now. He's ruining his legacy in my opinion.
I thought he retired to be honest.
 

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He has been a bit dodgy, to say the least. Because of that, the De Gea comparisons are perfectly apt.
De Gea has built a career out of being a one-man wall and single-handedly saving the team on many occasions. Not sure Kepa has produced a single performance like De Gea has belted out across the years. You can compare him all you want but as things stand, Kepa isn't fit to lace De Gea's boots. Pretty sure he'll never be as well.
 

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De Gea has built a career out of being a one-man wall and single-handedly saving the team on many occasions. Not sure Kepa has produced a single performance like De Gea has belted out across the years. You can compare him all you want but as things stand, Kepa isn't fit to lace De Gea's boots. Pretty sure he'll never be as well.
I think he was referring to the present day version of DDG.
 

giorno

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xG doesn't say a lot about gk though. You want to look at post-shot xG(which is perhaps the single best metric we have to judge a player's peeformance). I think he's still doing badly there too

Baffling player. Starting to look a bit Karius-y - great physical tools, horrible technique and decision making