So by that logic every player in the England squad is good enough to be a starter for us?
I don't think anyone is arguing he isn't good enough to even be in our squad or the England squad.
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 2
So by that logic every player in the England squad is good enough to be a starter for us?
I don't think anyone is arguing he isn't good enough to even be in our squad or the England squad.
I guess Tuchel must have fallen for Kobbie’s mythical PR machine I keep seeing being referenced on here
He’s been excellent since being back in the side and has received unanimous praise from basically every pundit, including all of the non united ones, which is uncommon.
We need to redefine the word "excellent" seems like everything today is either one extreme or the other. To me he's been fine, had some good moments and some less then good moments since being back. As a English man and United fan I'm glad he's made the squad, think he'll look even better on the international stage and maybe a few good games there will give him the confidence in the league to do a bit more on the ball.
People will forever criticize him I think as he's not the type to be a create loads of chances, score goals often or spray long passes.
He does the simple things extremely well, but then also the press resistance and composure in deeper areas to keep play ticking along is what he excels at. In fact the biggest development in his game since Carrick came in id say has been the defensive side of his game. I think he's been great defensively. He's putting in loads of defensive contributions every game, he's been strong, well positioned and a huge asset next to Casemiro like that.
Really the main thing I want him to really develop is those long balls, but loads of time for that. Not concerned at all. The criticism is just so strange as he's only 20, and has made a huge impact since coming back in and has been well worth his spot.
He does the simple things extremely well, but then also the press resistance and composure in deeper areas to keep play ticking along is what he excels at. In fact the biggest development in his game since Carrick came in id say has been the defensive side of his game. I think he's been great defensively. He's putting in loads of defensive contributions every game, he's been strong, well positioned and a huge asset next to Casemiro like that.
Really the main thing I want him to really develop is those long balls, but loads of time for that. Not concerned at all. The criticism is just so strange as he's only 20, and has made a huge impact since coming back in and has been well worth his spot.
Called up to the England squad
"What does he do"
This thread on repeat:
- stop expecting so much he's only 20
- OMG he's amazing
- He's been okay
- He's only 20 stop criticising him.
People need to stop gatekeeping basic judgement whilst praising him to stupid levels. He's been fine, he isn't a threat, he doesn't assist, he wins the occasional tackle. It's fine for his age but he's not been excellent and he'll obviously need to start doing more either in attack or defensive to add to his excellent possession play.
- stop expecting so much he's only 20
- OMG he's amazing
- He's been okay
- He's only 20 stop criticising him.
People need to stop gatekeeping basic judgement whilst praising him to stupid levels. He's been fine, he isn't a threat, he doesn't assist, he wins the occasional tackle. It's fine for his age but he's not been excellent and he'll obviously need to start doing more either in attack or defensive to add to his excellent possession play.
People are so obsessed with what he cannot do, they can't see what he actually does is highly effective and to a high level
He has been doing a lot more defensively. People tend to not notice that until there's more conversation about it (see tweet a few posts above...). One of 2 players in the league who is getting on the ball that much AND putting in a good amount of defensive work all over the pitch.
Put him in a midfield where his weakness is complimented by his midfield partner's strengths. If he did start, he'd play with Rice, strong runner, defensively sound. It's not rocket science. We play 2 slow, weak runners in the same 2 at Utd and wonder why our mid gets overrun most games. I appreciate at this point we have to deal with the cards we have been given, but we will add 1-2 mids who most definitely can cover ground in the off season.
Excellent? He has been fine in the context of him having been a bench player under Amorim who nearly left the club on a loan and proving him wrong, showing that there obviously is a player in there. Casemiro has been excellent, Mainoo has certainly not been anywhere near his level.
But it's not good enough. If we can improve, we should. We're not in a position to just wait for players to develop without competition. The problem with those tweets is that the stats are carefully picked to make players seem better than what they are, and precisely meant to spark debate. It reminds me of this tweet - and you could a bunch of other tweets like that for many other midfielders in the league. It says little.
Of course those stats often get carefully picked but I don't think they are that niche or specific. It's just saying he gets on the ball loads and he's getting involved a lot defensively. Which is true! He's not a top top midfielder yet or anything, it's entirely valid to say he's 20 and has a long way to grow while recognizing he has improved a lot and is a very promising long term midfielder for us with the composure and press resistance being his true elite trait.
We need 3 midfielders alongside him, and let the group of 4 fight it out. I don't think anybody we can realistically get easily benches him, but besides, with cup football next season the fixtures won't be a problem anyway and all 4 will get their game time.
Occasional tackle?. He averages 2.2 per 90 mins more than Rice (2.0) and Zubimendi (1.9)
Rodri 2.5 and Gonzalez 2.4, Casemiro 2.9 so those are the targets for when hes 24-25
The main thing he needs to improve (If he is to play in a 2 behind Bruno) is effectively covering horizontal areas of the pitch in the middle third, and I think he'll improve this as his positioning and anticipation improve with experience. Playing alongside a midfielder who does exactly that which hopefully we can sign in the summer will definitely help him immensely.
How is this any different than what you're complaining about when you're exaggerating in the other direction. "Wins the occasional tackle" is intentionally downplaying and also counterfactual. The gatekeeping will stop when this nonsense stops.
Yes these are some picked out stats, but the reason you can pick them out is because Stach has been a very good midfielder this season. You cant make a list like that in the same way for a player who is not doing well.
Exactly, I think a lot of people here got on the bandwagon against Kobbie because of their undying support of Amorim and it is now set in.
They spent so many months backing the opinions of an obviously deranged, dead horse that Kobbie needs to be a prime Gerrard for a season before they can admit he's actually a good player with bags of potential.
Everyone can see he's a good player with bags of potential. I haven't seen one that actually denies it. It's just that it's fairly easy to upgrade on him which we will be doing as we're in the market for 3 midfielders. He will have a role to play, but he shouldn't be a starter next season based on his performances this season. There will be a lot of games for him to rotate, but should not be playing the majority of our games as a starter. He has barely developed since he broke through, and I would even argue he looks worse in some aspects.
Zubimendi is actually a good comparison. Similar style. I don't think Zubimendi is that far ahead of Mainoo. Plays in a better team, partnered by Rice in quite a defensive system... Main thing Zubimendi has shown is the ability to pop up with a set piece goal here and there. He's also 6-7 years older. Also Zubimendi gives more progressive passes but that can grow with Mainoo and it's not something Zubimendi has always shown. Mainoo is ahead of him defensively id say and with his dribbling and press resistance while being naturally much stronger.
The thing is, we're actually not solely relying on Mainoo. If Kobbie were to go out injured it would be a heavy blow to the starting XI, but assuming he were ever fit Mount could walk into the job. To be clear, Mainoo is clearly superior to Mount on the ball while Mount is clearly superior to Mainoo off the ball. But Mount isn't terrible...his problem is his fitness. But even if Mainoo and Mount were both out we could, in a pinch, as Mazraoui to take up the slack during their recovery period. But even putting that aside, my takeway from your statement is that solely relying on Mainoo will cause us issues down the road, which I agree with (if he does out injured or is suspended), but you also stated that solely relying on Mainoo has (already) caused us issues, which I strongly disagree with us.
There is no evidence that we have suffered during the 9 games in which Mainoo has started under Carrick, 7 of which we have won. In none of those 7 wins can it be argued that United deserved to lose the game but lucked out with the win. It can be argued that during our lone defeat, to Newcastle away of course -- a notoriously hard place to get a win -- that our midfield was overrun and a finger can be pointed at Mainoo -- as well as Bruno and Casemiro. But for the same of argument let's lay all the blame on Mainoo for defeat to Newcastle; that's one game out of 9. Let's go ahead and make it two on account of the draw with West Ham away.
7 solid-to-outstanding performances out of 9 by a central midfielder for one of world's biggest (but not best) clubs who's still only 20 years old, with all the pressure that comes from being under the microscope on every continent on the planet is still pretty decent. What more could we have expected from Mainoo after he was frozen out of the starting XI for 13 months? After such a long time on the bench, watching lose match after match while being able to do nothing about it, then instantly being plugged back in and -- poof! -- we coincidentally win 7 of 9 matches, 3 of which were against the top 3 clubs per league table in the PL.
If the concern is overreliance on a single player, that player isn't Kobbie Mainoo. It's Bruno Fernandes. I don't think I need to explain why.
With the "solely relying" argument having failed, it's hard to escape the conclusion that an agenda is behind the constant need to find criticisms of Kobbie Mainoo. Sure, he's not the polished gem, but how could he be at 20? Kobbie Mainoo was thrown into the fire at 18 and performed brilliantly for both club and country and has been called up again for World Cup 2026 despite playing only 10 games this season, but apart from the disastrous performance against Grimsby he's been outsanding on 7 of his 9 appearances and mediocre but not poor in the other 2 appearances.
Mainoo's ceiling is hard to describe but it is not low. If there is one legitimate criticism, it's his relative lack of athleticism which is a strange thing to be guilty of at 20. There's not a lot he could do about his speed and height, but he can improve his stamina. But his quickness of mind and ability to untie knots in midfield is the kind of ability you see from Barcelona midfielders, not most PL midfielders. That he's cemented himself as a starter for us during this incredible run has attracted the notice of Thomas Tuchel, who stated this:
“Kobbie is like Harry [Maguire].
“A major part of the success story with Man United lately in the last weeks.
“He plays all the time and I hear so many good things in the FA and from other players and I see his quality, so I want to meet him in person and see what he can do to get to know him better.
“Competition is on for him.”
As for United, we definitely need to bring in someone to compete for Kobbie's job. As much as I like Mount as a utility player, a squad man if you will, he just can't do what Mainoo does in midfield. Keep Mount as there will no buyers for him at his salary and fitness record, but use him wherever we have a need and bring in a more physical midfielder, ideally 3-5 inches taller and an aerial dueller, to give Carrick (he's getting the job) another dimension against certain opponents and game situations. But it's hard to imagine finding another midfielder we can bring in who does what Mainoo does and would displace him as a regular starter next season.
Great news!
My prediction for him is that one day, he'll captain this club. Long way to go, but I love the kid. Hope he keeps his head down and keeps improving and stays a good kid (by all accounts).
My prediction for him is that one day, he'll captain this club. Long way to go, but I love the kid. Hope he keeps his head down and keeps improving and stays a good kid (by all accounts).
He isn't putting in a good amount of defensive work though. You'll struggle to find many midfielders with a tackle rate per 90 below his, I just checked about 8 (Wharton, Anderson, Gomes, Tielemens, Garner, M.Fernandes to name some) and gave up. His interceptions are low and his duels won too.
He was really good defensively in two games to give him his dues so he does have it in him, unfortunately he goes back to the languid lack of effort at times. It's the same issue we had with Pogba, it's sporadic effort and for me that mentality doesn't often change in players. I could be wrong certainly wouldn't be the first time.
I'm definitely not saying he can't change and you'd be right to say he's only 20. I agree he's excellent for his age I just don't think he's generally excellent or even good yet unless you account for his age. A lot of gaps for him to work on and time will tell. We shouldn't be going into next season with a 20 year old CM as a starter would be my main takeaway, it's a tough position for a young lad. 1000-1500 league minutes would be about right for him, he needs to add to his game for more minutes than that.
Yeah. When posters kept suggesting Zubimendi for years before he moved to Arsenal, I thought Mainoo meant we dont need him. He was better then, although Zubimendi has added goals this season so maybe hes just ahead now. Thing is he's physically a lot behind.
I see Ornstein has tweeted that him and Maguire are close to agreeing now contracts, great news!
Will be interesting to see what the p/w wage they land on. Guessing the 100k region seems pretty reasonable will be in line with Yoro and not to far off Amad if I remember correctly.
You'll find about 30 midfielders with lower tackle per 90 rate below his actually. He's in the lower half for interceptions per 90 for midfielders, and 9th among all midfielders for possession won in the final third. For blocks per 90 he's right in the mean again. Statistically speaking, to say he doesn't put in a good amount of defensive work is wildly inaccurate.
Apparently, 120k base salary. Seems like a very smart move. If he doesn't work out, it would be easy to move him. Even if he falls down to a squad player, you can still carry him with that salary.
Is that central midfielders or midfielders more widely? No point including attacking midfielders or wingers.
Bournemouth 2:2 Man Utd
New
Desperately need an upgrade
Another game were our midfield is levels below the team we are facing.
Yes, Mainoo and Casemiro are levels below Christie and Scott
Yes, Mainoo and Casemiro are levels below Christie and Scott
Christie and Scott are both better than Mainoo.
I don’t see what he’s meant to bring to the team at all.
Tom Cleverley mk2.
Alex Scott is quite obviously better than MainooYes, Mainoo and Casemiro are levels below Christie and Scott
Cleverly was Xavi compared to this guy.
Disappointed since his return to the side. Feels like he’s in stat-preservation mode. Playing it safe and doing lots of simple things, but in doing so not affecting the game in a meaningful way and disrupting rhythm.
Can’t see him being productive enough going forward to take over from Bruno. Can’t see him being smart enough deep in midfield to take over from Cas. He’s young so you never know, but I feel he’s starting because the other option is Ugarte.
Can’t see him being productive enough going forward to take over from Bruno. Can’t see him being smart enough deep in midfield to take over from Cas. He’s young so you never know, but I feel he’s starting because the other option is Ugarte.