[Exiled_Red]

Are we realistically ever going to play that system?
I think you might be right but i think the best outcome for everyone is to sell him if true. To be honest i think the player people are describing in here is riddled with red flags whatever the talent.

We play with a 3 man midfield in different phases of the game now, but as a formation change, probably not.

I disagree about the red flags. I think he’s got natural development hurdles like any kid his age. I think they are being overblown because of how good he looked when he first started playing senior minutes and how big of a talent he is. Garnacho had obvious red flags. Mainoo just needs to adapt to playing a system that doesn’t play to his strengths.

 

[Hammondo]

Are you saying you think the area that a CM needs to cover doesn’t change between a 3 man and 2 man midfield setup?

One of the main reasons 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 became a mainstay after long periods of everyone playing a 4-4-2 is because it allows teams to be more narrow and crowd out the center of the pitch.

When it comes to Mainoo, I think it’s pretty obvious he functions better in a 3 man midfield, particularly as the 8 or 10. He’s great on the ball, great at beating the press, and his tackling is very underrated. His biggest issue right now are his lack of pace and his passing being limited and inconsistent.

The area the CM's need to cover also increases when you have 3 in midfield. They have more responsibility, it's not like the amount of work the team needs to do just decreases, the space they have to cover together increases as there are less players in attacking and defensive positions to do it.

 

[arthurka]

Like Elsa said Let him go or something. Loan him and give him a chance to play

 

[Exiled_Red]

The area the CM's need to cover also increases when you have 3 in midfield. They have more responsibility, it's not like the amount of work the team needs to do just decreases, the space they have to cover together increases as there are less players in attacking and defensive positions to do it.

I disagree. It changes the areas of the pitch where you are naturally compact. Any formation prioritizes certain areas of the pitch and cedes others. A 3 man midfield is going to sacrifice width, but the general thinking is it’s harder to generate chances from wide space than by going right through the center of the pitch. Sure a 3 man midfield needs to cover more area than a 2 man, but not more per player.

A 3 man midfield is typically a more narrow formation and upon transition you have more direct support. In our current formation, in order to get support either the wing forwards have to tuck in quickly or one of the CBs needs to step into midfield. Both things Amorim has implanted in the path month or so to cover our midfield getting passed so easily.

 

[Godfather]

Kobbie hasn't gotten worse overnight. He just doesnt fit in this system or any system that plays a double pivot. He cant cover the ground needed. Put him a 4-3-3 in any of the 3 position (but preferably one of the forward two) and he'll be great again.

He might be promising in that position. He was never great

 

[Ekeke]

Bold move being condescending while being so wrong. First off, our current starting midfield didn’t even play against Brentford.

Also, you’re saying our midfield was good early in the season against Fulham, Burnley and City (although this one was mostly Bruno and Ugarte)? Our midfield was a disaster in basically every game prior to the Sunderland game except for against Arsenal where we played much more compact as a team.

So are you saying Amorim hasn’t changed his tactics at all since the start of the season to protect how our midfield was getting abused? If you think that, you either haven’t been watching or you don’t know ball.

The tactics dont change based on who starts. You're wearing a tin foil hat. Calling football ball is another self report.

 

[Hammondo]

I disagree. It changes the areas of the pitch where you are naturally compact. Any formation prioritizes certain areas of the pitch and cedes others. A 3 man midfield is going to sacrifice width, but the general thinking is it’s harder to generate chances from wide space than by going right through the center of the pitch. Sure a 3 man midfield needs to cover more area than a 2 man, but not more per player.

A 3 man midfield is typically a more narrow formation and upon transition you have more direct support. In our current formation, in order to get support either the wing forwards have to tuck in quickly or one of the CBs needs to step into midfield. Both things Amorim has implanted in the path month or so to cover our midfield getting passed so easily.

With a 3 man midfield you have a lot more ground to cover centrally as you now have less defenders and attackers centrally.

 

[userman]

If he really wants to go on a loan to get regular playing time so that he can claim a spot for the world cup, then let him, in exchange he extends his contract with another year on better terms (but not on what he's rumoured to be asking for).
And tell Napoli - the likeliest destination - to make Hojlunds transfer permanent in January for us to reinvest the money in a CM.

Right now he's the backup to one of our most important players - who happens to be sort of a perpetual motion machine - and in a CM pairing with any of our other CMs there's none of them that are good fits for Mainoo or vice versa. If/when we rebuild our midfield in the summer, it should also improve the conditions for Mainoo to thrive in Amorims setup.

Loan and extend = win-win.

 

[simonhch]

People forget this kid is only 20. It's hard for people to put that in perspective sometimes because we was so good at 18 and 19, often times being one of, if not the, best players on the team. As another poster said, there are natural development hurdles. Modric wasn't even making his Spurs debut until he was turning 23. This kid has another 2-3 years of development ahead of him before we start to see anything approaching the shape of the finished article. And even then you wouldn't expect him to really be showing signs of completeness until he was 25 or 26.

The change in system hasn't suited him at all, because it's largely reductive in just focusing on his physicality. His strengths were never his physicality, and it is a shame such a premium is being placed on that when he has so much else to offer. That said, forcing him to develop that side of his game will only help him in the long run to be a better player. But we absolutely need to take the long view on this and look to develop him over a multi-year period because he is a top, top talent.

I am a huge fan of Kobbie and his ability. I think our CM options are extremely poor for the system we are playing and what are trying to accomplish. If we had a proper, top level box to box physical midfielder, then I think Kobbie could start most games alongside him and be very effective for us right now in this system. The issue we have is that his deficiencies when it comes to this system are magnified by the fact that the rest of our midfielders have similar deficiencies. Amorim has gone for experience in that position, and what he considers his best balance but I think it is a huge shame he isn't being given an extended run in the team so he can grow into the position; because I have little doubt he is our best CM.

Whatever happens, we cannot afford to write this guy off, freeze him out, and potentially lose him. We will absolutely regret it. If loaning him out so he plays for the rest of the season is necessary, then I think that's what we do. I want this kid tied down to a long term contract, and I want to see him on the pitch. He will continue to develop his all round game and physicality by playing more. So Loan him out as part of agreeing a new long term contract, and let him play and develop.

 

[Trex]

People always say Zirkzee isn't suited to the league because he lacks pace and intensity therefore players the game in slow motion. This doesn't apply to Mainoo though because he's one of our own so Amorim has to start him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

People always say Zirkzee isn't suited to the league because he lacks pace and intensity therefore players the game in slow motion. This doesn't apply to Mainoo though because he's one of our own so Amorim has to start him.

Mainoo has already shown he can play in the league and did so under ETH - which led him to being selected for England and playing in a European Championship final off the back of him form in the PL.

Mainoo clearly doesn’t suit the system Amorim is playing. Zirkzee hasn’t in any way proved he can play in this league, and also doesn’t fit Amorim’s system.

 

[Trex]

Mainoo has already shown he can play in the league and did so under ETH - which led him to being selected for England and playing in a European Championship final off the back of him form in the PL.

Mainoo clearly doesn’t suit the system Amorim is playing. Zirkzee hasn’t in any way proved he can play in this league, and also doesn’t fit Amorim’s system.

Point is both players lack pace and intensity, both players are adequately skilled in the ball. Everyone agrees one should be moved on but a lot says the other should be shoehorned or we should dump our set up completely to accommodate him.

 

[Fortitude]

Point is both players lack pace and intensity, both players are adequately skilled in the ball. Everyone agrees one should be moved on but a lot says the other should be shoehorned or we should dump our set up completely to accommodate him.

It's not really the point though, is it? Essentially, Mainoo has already shown he is a PL player at base ends, beyond that, it's down to utilisation to make it so whilst Zirkzee hasn't proven himself as a PL player at base ends and may never be one.

I don't agree with how we've wasted their seasons, but they do have different fundamentals even if they have the similarity of being slow and unathletic.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Point is both players lack pace and intensity, both players are adequately skilled in the ball. Everyone agrees one should be moved on but a lot says the other should be shoehorned or we should dump our set up completely to accommodate him.

Both players aren’t comparable as I pointed out.

Even if they were, of course we should advocate to keep an Academy player who has been at our club most of his life over a player who has been brought it.

But as pointed out, one has proved he can play in the PL and so not comparable.

 

[Rossa]

Point is both players lack pace and intensity, both players are adequately skilled in the ball. Everyone agrees one should be moved on but a lot says the other should be shoehorned or we should dump our set up completely to accommodate him.

Many herr argue that Mainoo’s lack of pace and intensity may result in him being better suited to another league. However, he has also proven that he can play very well at this level. A player like Rodri isn’t fast and doesn’t have high intensity to his game.

Zirkzee just hasn’t proven the quality required in the league.

 

[Telsim]

Should have just sold him this summer for a massive fee. Won't get nearly as much next summer, I think.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Should have just sold him this summer for a massive fee. Won't get nearly as much next summer, I think.

Who knows? But if the overarching plan is to stick, at all costs, with a manager that basically wants to turn United into Newcastle v2.0 (why there's suddenly such overwhelming focus on physicality and dynamic running), you're probably right. We should sell early, before this turns into another Rashford/Garnacho situation, instead of keeping him because we sense there's good potential there. Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[Hammondo]

Should have just sold him this summer for a massive fee. Won't get nearly as much next summer, I think.

Who do you think would buy him for a massive fee? How much are you thinking?

 

[Telsim]

Who do you think would buy him for a massive fee? How much are you thinking?

I imagine there would have been enough takers for around £75M this summer. Would have been enough to unlock funds for a new midfielder.

 

[JBG]

I imagine there would have been enough takers for around £75M this summer. Would have been enough to unlock funds for a new midfielder.

Yeah but Mainoo is homegrown, that's much better to have on the bench and who doesn't fit this style of play much.

 

[Hammondo]

I imagine there would have been enough takers for around £75M this summer. Would have been enough to unlock funds for a new midfielder.

I really don't think we are getting close to that.

 

[Camilo]

I imagine there would have been enough takers for around £75M this summer. Would have been enough to unlock funds for a new midfielder.

All that talk was nonsense. He was an out of favour unproven young footballer - we'd have gotten 30, maybe.

He could still come good, but all he's really shown so far is an ability to move the ball onto someone who better knows what to do with it. Which would be fine if he could also run around and tackle, but he can't.

 

[TwoSheds]

I actually quite liked him as a striker tbf. The lad can finish even if he can't run and his link up is great. Not sure he's better than an actual striker though.

 

[Andersonson]

Did he sprint once during that cameo? What the hell what that performance?

According to whoscored he was our worst player on the pitch and I agree. That was horrendous

 

[Dave Fishwick]

disappointed with him tonight - had 30-35 mins in which to affect that and we had a lot of the usual repertoire, strolling around

one decent bit of play for the cut cross to Zirkzee but other than that nothing really to hang your hat on considering he's trying to force his way in

 

[delerium]

I thought he would bring on speed and energy when he was released from the bench. Sideways passing doesn't really cut it.

 

[bosnian_red]

Did he sprint once during that cameo? What the hell what that performance?

According to whoscored he was our worst player on the pitch and I agree. That was horrendous

The feck? He was fine. He was brought on as a CM and Everton barely passed the half way mark since he came on. He's not the player to target today ffs

 

[Mike Smalling]

Always brings a distinct lack of intensity and urgency.

 

[Godfather]

I thought he would bring on speed and energy when he was released from the bench. Sideways passing doesn't really cut it.

He has neither so not something you can expect from him

 

[sullydnl]

Didn't do much of anything, but hardly deserving of criticism relative to the rest.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I thought he would bring on speed and energy when he was released from the bench. Sideways passing doesn't really cut it.

Strange expectation from a player who at his best has never displayed either

 

[BluesJr]

He isn’t good enough. Stop deluding yourselves that he’s a top talent.

 

[Gaidal]

Has the speed to look good in Serie C.

 

[delerium]

Strange expectation from a player who at his best has never displayed either

A bit harsh. When he first broke out to the first team and even England he displayed a lot more than what's he's been up to for a while now.

 

[Based Adnan]

Should be moved on

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Time to cash in.

 

[IsoJoe]

quick to blame him I see …

 

[Dec9003]

He doesn’t really bring anything at the moment, and doesn’t look terribly interested in fighting for a place. Disappointment to go from where he was under Ten Hag to now. If we had a serious offer for a good fee id reluctantly sell him.

 

[edgecutter]

Anyone that thinks he can be a game changer needs to give their head a wobble. Too slow and looked a lesser player than Garner.

 

[Ekeke]

Didnt seem like he was sent on and told to get forward. Essentially replaced Casemiro in the exact same role keeping his position