To be honest even against City where I thought he had a decent game he hardly "ran". Watch his highlights. He mostly trots. No reason why he shouldn't be able to work on this like Dorgu did with a personal coach
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 23
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 1
To be honest even against City where I thought he had a decent game he hardly "ran". Watch his highlights. He mostly trots. No reason why he shouldn't be able to work on this like Dorgu did with a personal coach
Every player mostly jogs. You run for balls when you're in a foot race with a realistic chance of getting there
With Kobbie I feel it's more noticable than with most others. I would like to see him show more intensity. If that requires him to work on his stamina then he should do it
Should we be concerned?
Looking to go forward every time we get the ball isn't expansive, it's just counter attacking football. When I say expansive, I mean territorially, leading to greater distances between players. That's the opposite of our approach, we spent the majority of the match in a mid block, staying compact and looking to attack quickly, before resuming our compact shape. In terms of intensity, we attacked with great intensity, fast and direct, but off the ball it simply isn't true. We had PPDA of nearly 16 according to @NZT-One, which demonstrates the our relatively low intensity off the ball.
You've seemingly misinterpreted the heatmap too, it shows the majority of his time was spent around the the central 3rd, with some smatterings higher and lower.
I get that you want to make this "most distance covered out of possession" stat seem like a big deal, but it just isn't. He had a very good game, everyone agrees with that, hopefully it's something he can build on.
Such a ridiculously specific stat
It reminds me of the tweets that go "Bruno Fernandes is the only player in the top 5 leagues that has created 50+ chances, taken 22+ corners, 37+ ball recoveries and 15+ tackles. Maestro".Not a dig at Bruno, by the way, I just find it funny how people use specific stats to hype a player up.
I'm not trying to make anything seem like a big deal. I have said it counters 1 very specific claim which is that he's lazy and won't work off the ball.
You've tried to argue against different claims that have never been made and now you're outright lying about a heatmap.
Agenda posters are honestly the most boring thing on this forum.
So many people misinterpreting the stat.
It isn't about how much possession we had because that is the same for our entire team. A team with Bruno, Amad, Casemiro and Dorgu who all worked hard off the ball.
Yet Mainoo covered more ground than all of them. Lazy Mainoo who won't work off the ball. Sharing a bunch of silly alternative stats and writing a load of paragraphs doesn't change that this is a good thing.
It isn't about how much possession we had because that is the same for our entire team. A team with Bruno, Amad, Casemiro and Dorgu who all worked hard off the ball.
Yet Mainoo covered more ground than all of them. Lazy Mainoo who won't work off the ball. Sharing a bunch of silly alternative stats and writing a load of paragraphs doesn't change that this is a good thing.
But it doesn't do so. Where is this "most distance covered out of possession" coming from? I guess it is about one game? One can have the most distance covered within a team without the actual distance being that high. Thats the difference between relational numbers and absolute numbers. By the way, I wouldn't call Mainoo lazy. But he usually doesn't come across like a player who covers as much blades of grass as possible. Which in itself is probably not the worst thing in the world but it becomes a problem, when paired with a player that has the same attributes in that regard.
I'd say this is only topped by posters who bring up agendas as soon as they reach in impass in a discussion.
Strange to see him back, playing just like he did before. What on earth was it that Ruben didn`t like?
He is clearly overall just as good or better than any competition for the midfield places.
Things turn around so quick. Can`t even imagine him starting on the bench if he is fully fit now.
Tuchel must have him on his radar as well now.
He is clearly overall just as good or better than any competition for the midfield places.
Things turn around so quick. Can`t even imagine him starting on the bench if he is fully fit now.
Tuchel must have him on his radar as well now.
The claim is that he doesn't have the legs to do the running we need in midfield. And it doesn't counter that, because the claim is based on us playing a system that isn't a mid block, but rather one where we need to see a lot more of the ball and have a lot more space to cover.
For the record, here's the heatmap that you claim shows "absolutely loads of time spent high up". One of us is outright lying, but it isn't me.
The irony here is palpable, you've misinterpreted the stat in this very post. The statement in bold isn't correct, we only know that he covered more ground while we were out of possession. The likes of Amad, Dorgu, and Fernandes constantly having to bomb forward are very likely to have covered more ground overall, with a lot more sprinting involved. There's a reason Sky chose such a niche statistic, because it's likely the only one that supported the picture they wanted to paint.
Your final sentence is sadly accurate. There's a lot of gloating about this stat in the recent few pages of this thread, which becomes ad hominem attacks when it's pointed out how the stat has been misunderstood.
The claim is that he doesn't have the legs to do the running we need in midfield. And it doesn't counter that, because the claim is based on us playing a system that isn't a mid block, but rather one where we need to see a lot more of the ball and have a lot more space to cover.
For the record, here's the heatmap that you claim shows "absolutely loads of time spent high up". One of us is outright lying, but it isn't me.
The irony here is palpable, you've misinterpreted the stat in this very post. The statement in bold isn't correct, we only know that he covered more ground while we were out of possession. The likes of Amad, Dorgu, and Fernandes constantly having to bomb forward are very likely to have covered more ground overall, with a lot more sprinting involved. There's a reason Sky chose such a niche statistic, because it's likely the only one that supported the picture they wanted to paint.
Your final sentence is sadly accurate. There's a lot of gloating about this stat in the recent few pages of this thread, which becomes ad hominem attacks when it's pointed out how the stat has been misunderstood.
I'm not going back and forth with you about this. If it helps the line down the middle of the picture, that's the half way line.
Again you're talking about sprinting. His athleticism is a different criticism which I've never said this addresses.
Have a good day
I'm not going back and forth with you about this. If it helps the line down the middle of the picture, that's the half way line.
Again you're talking about sprinting. His athleticism is a different criticism which I've never said this addresses.
Have a good day
I'm talking about a nonsense stat that's being held up as ground-breaking evidence by people who don't understand it. The back and forth has been shaky attempts to justify misinterpreting it and the occasional ad-hominem, but I agree that it's pointless, a bit like the stat that started it.
Let's see where Mainoo is at the end of the season, hopefully working with a former midfielder as talented and accomplished as Carrick will help him improve.
Where’d you read this? Dorgu looked like he worked a lot from the beginning he got here. Only thing I’ve read is that he’s been doing a lot of extra training, like working on crosses.
The main and obvious difference is Carrick got us in a much better organised structure defensively. This will help mainoo a lot who likes to roam around. The way Amorim wanted to play mainoo wouldn’t have suited it and we’d have nothing in midfield. Carrick got the defence and midfield quite close together and working as a more organised unit. He also worked really well with Casemiro.
This is a bit over the top.
I know we all want him to do well but he is never getting in ahead of Cas or Bruno in a midfield 2.
I still think his best position is as a no 10 in the Bruno role as i dont think he can play consistently in a midfiled 2.
I still think he is Bruno's eventual replacement
Kobbie has good composure for such a young player and can help calm things down in possession for us. Protects the ball well when carrying the ball forward and finds teammates with a simple pass. I think he suits the midfield 2 really well.
In a midfield of two, i would play Kobbie +1 at the moment. I think he offers more than Ugarte there, more than Bruno, and just as much as Casemiro, imo.
I don`t see a new Bruno in him at all tbh.
Where did this absolute fiction that he can't play in a deeper role in a two come from? So much criticism in here that's completely devoid of any kind of understanding of his game and what he does well. Just baffling.
I'm not going back and forth with you about this. If it helps the line down the middle of the picture, that's the half way line.
Again you're talking about sprinting. His athleticism is a different criticism which I've never said this addresses.
Have a good day
Been there, than that. Good call.
It's also safe to say that those legends of the game weren't anywhere near what they became at 20 as well
Btw, these are Mainoo numbers under ten Hag in first 7 games before muscle injury (2024/25 season).. The season he started without proper rest because of Euro 2024
He's actually very good defensively in and around the defensive third, and he showed that in his first PL start. Playing as an all action ball winner and covering space horizontally is something that he's yet to develop, but he's 20 and his game as a midfielder is so much more mature and well rounded than some of his underinformed critics will give him credit for.
I'd say he's good at making interceptions and disrupting your opponents' play without necessarily being the best at seeing danger.
There's elements of his play which make him a good '6', but I think he needs a Rice style all-rounder alongside him if he's to play that role at this moment in time.
There's elements of his play which make him a good '6', but I think he needs a Rice style all-rounder alongside him if he's to play that role at this moment in time.
Cheers Nev.
The problem was he made a couple of big errors, playing deep, Ten Hag abandoned him as the 6 and then she started scoring, so he kept being moved forward. I don't think he'll be trusted to be the all action ball winner by a manager and it's probably not wise to try and make something he's not.
Interceptions are actually the weaker part of his ball winning.
Its tackles he makes. 3.4 and 3.3 per 90 mins in his 2 seasons of playing a lot of games which if he did it now would put him 2nd behind Ugarte who makes 4.8 this season. Casemiro is 3.2 so past Kobbie would be higher than that. Casemiro made loads last season but hes calmed down this season.
In those same seasons he averaged 1 interception per game which would have him joint 6th with Dorgu, Lisandro Martinez and Casemiro this season. 1 is still more than average, you can expect more on the ball midfielders to be around 0.7 or if they're particularly weak at ball winning less than that. And obviously hes 20 so you can expect all numbers to get better as he gets older
There are different types of defensive midfielder and at least under Amorim our midfielders were a 2nd layer of pressing after the front players have tried to press. This meant they were not likely going to be back in a defensive position to cover the defence, but it was good for players who like to try and win the ball and compete in challenges. This is what Casemiro, Ugarte and Mainoo are better at than becoming an extra CB defending their own box
And it also doesn't allow him to play to his strengths, which are so conducive to controlling possession and consistently setting up final third entries in high volume. He should never be deployed as a ball winner who is asked to cover the pitch horizontally, but he just needs more match time as a lot of what's holding him back in that regard is just reading the game faster. Good to see this thread getting away from rewriting history about his initial spell when he broke out and became a regular starter for England.
Because these posters ate up every bit of bullshit that came out of Amorim's mouth.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...y-to-open-talks-with-midfielder-over-new-deal
United opening discussions for a new deal
United opening discussions for a new deal
Didn't he like want 180k?
Great news
Hes not anything at 20, or before that when Ten Hag was here. A young player is going to make mistakes in every position
He has some skills which suit different parts of the pitch but hes a work in progress in every position
He first stood out for his composure when being pressed in our defensive third, being able to evade the press deep in our half and able to help us play out from the back. He can score a goal. Playing as a DM doesnt mean you cant score goals. Plenty have
I agree. I don't think he should have been abandoned in the deeper role.
I don't think he'll be able to play all the roles in midfield, especially without a good partner. Maybe we'll see more of what he can do next year with a proper partner and set playing style.
120k until 2031 makes sense
Him and Ugarte are the only 2 left for 2 positions come the summer, so we need 2 signings if we get Europe or 1 if we don't.
Basically we need a young Casemiro to pair with him in midfield.
Him and Ugarte are the only 2 left for 2 positions come the summer, so we need 2 signings if we get Europe or 1 if we don't.
Basically we need a young Casemiro to pair with him in midfield.
Simon Jones reporting he signed a contract last summer but the manager refused it.
Obvious nonsense.
Arsenal 2:3 Man Utd
New
Again a very good game, him and Case kept midfield really tight.
Right. That's that one put to bed then.
Another great Kobbie performance, just a calm head in centre mid that can receive the ball, hold the ball, and give it simply to a team-mate, often at strange angles and little sand-wedge balls to miss out the blocking oppo player.
Fabulous stuff, and if he can continue like this against England's finest, that WC squad spot is still available for him.
Another great Kobbie performance, just a calm head in centre mid that can receive the ball, hold the ball, and give it simply to a team-mate, often at strange angles and little sand-wedge balls to miss out the blocking oppo player.
Fabulous stuff, and if he can continue like this against England's finest, that WC squad spot is still available for him.