He started poorly but grew into the game. Him and Bruno were half the reason we struggled first 20 minutes. Very good nutmeg at the end to get an assist.
37
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 1
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
Played like a modern b2b midfielder we need, kept the game flowing, connected our play.
We almost swapped this guy to have Connor fecking Gallagher in midfield. Can we hire Amorim and sack him again?
Class in midfield, so good with the ball and his positioning was really good too. A little sloppy at times, but that will be fixed, shouldn't forget this kid is still 20!
Very little thing but the pass for Cunha goal was brilliant, he's so good in tight spaces.
Class in midfield, so good with the ball and his positioning was really good too. A little sloppy at times, but that will be fixed, shouldn't forget this kid is still 20!
Very little thing but the pass for Cunha goal was brilliant, he's so good in tight spaces.
Been coached by Carrick since he was about 13. An example of how a coach can make or break a player.
100%
Your coach giving you belief, helping put in you an environment to maximise your skillset is so important for development.
One thing I have realized about Mainoo in the last couple of games is that the best part of what he does is subtle. It's not the hero passes or skill but things like holding onto the ball in a congested area, playing a simple 5 yard pass between defenders, playing the team out of trouble.
And you can see the team / Bruno etc use him like that. If things are congested, they give him the ball.
And you can see the team / Bruno etc use him like that. If things are congested, they give him the ball.
It's good he's getting involved, but he's not doing much with the ball - and just to be clear, it's OK to recycle possession in a game like that, but I do believe if Ugarte played like this his performance wouldn't be called anything more than "correct". And I'm fine to call this a correct display from Mainoo, this was the most difficult game for this season and a few other "mitigating" aspects. But calling this a very good game (like many on here do) is a big stretch - again, he played like that in the past and people were moaning about having a poor game. I think it's a bit unfair.
I want to see him having a good game against Fulham, this is where we will need more from his "natural" predispositions.
This is best part he is covering more ground than any other player
I think its more about balance of midfield too.
With Bruno and Casemiro alongside he can connect like this and be good. Problem is when he is required to be a player he isnt.
Our fans are divided, some will hate players and some will make them the best next thing. We don’t really have a balance and unbiased view.
I agree if Ugarte had a similar game, he would be called out. Just shows how people have tunnel vision and will force their view.
He had an average game which was expected as Arsenal are pretty dominant. Didn’t see anything special, his strengths were his short passing which was good and decent defensive effort like the rest of the team.
Still young, plenty of game time should be able to progress his career.
You are absolutely right. He needs to offer more creativity and goal threat from the edge of the box against weaker opposition but it is really hard to criticize him right now. The lad had his confidence taken away by a bizarre move by the last manager, that too at his childhood club that he supports. Playing for United must have been a dream for him but he was being forced out for a mindless 3-4-3 shape that doesn't suit us.
He suddenly becomes a starter against City and then Arsenal, the top two teams in the PL (the most competitive league) and comes out trumps. Full marks to him.
There is a lot of time for him to expand his game and become better at other things. Until then, he is a huge asset if he can do the basics right without making mistakes. Even 50m midfielders struggle to do that in the PL and I won't even sell him for that much money.
All the talk about him not having the engine can probably go in the bin. His pace, penetrative passing, long passing can still improve quite a bit. But he is able to compete against the best, that at 20 years old, is quite special.
Ugarte couldn’t play a game like that against top teams though. At no point was Mainoo mis-controlling the ball or putting the team under pressure with poor passes in his own half.
I know that everyone wants to look for the counter-narrative, and that's fine, but Christian Eriksen used to regularly top this stat. It's something that CMs generally will top in the right circumstances. What matters is really the intensity at key points and making defensive interventions. Which he did reasonably well, at points, but also did not at others.
As usual, his passing and performance in small spaces was good, but his vision for mid and long passes is miles behind where it needs to be, and worryingly, he tries them very infrequently. It would be better for him to be trying and not executing but showing he has that vision, than to play conservatively.
All in all a 6.5/7 performance, one he can build on.
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He had a better game against a better team at Anfield last season.
Im happy for him to have 7/10 games each game, make no mistakes, be over the pitch. It's what you want from one of your midfielders - the others can do the other parts.
That is a very good point. They are not too different in that domain, Eriksen and Mainoo.
Indeed. There are "question marks" over his physicality and passing (mid-long range), I think right now we're getting a very "conservative" version of Mainoo - as we've seen what he is capable of.
Bottom line is, this was a competent performance, just surprised he's getting so much praise on here and I pointed out he had multiple games like that where people moaned he hasn't taken his chance etc. But, I think it's important, he's the player I want to see against Fulhams of the world, I wouldn't mind (and hope) we use stronger physical midfield next season against the big boys away from home. Mainoo needs to have more on the ball impact to hold his position, but he's young enough to grow in that domain.
EDIT: To put this into different words, it was okayish performance against Arsenal, but the next few games are for me much more interesting and I expect more from Mainoo. Firstly because I know he's capable of doing more on the ball, but secondly because I'd be afraid he will be replaced easily if we buy new midfield. What by the way maybe is the right thing to do considering he's only 20.
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Yeah and there’s no chance he wasn’t praised on here afterwards. He’s also shit the bed numerous times against far easier opponents, I’m surprised he still has anyone willing to defend him.
But you said he couldn’t play like that against a top team, which is not true. I’m not defending him — I still want him gone. But just a few weeks ago, I wanted Mainoo gone too. Now feels like a good time to give players the benefit of the doubt
He is a great talent. Glad he's finally finding his space. We still need more options to the middle, though.
If you wanted Mainoo gone then I’m afraid I won’t be listening to your opinions on other players, as brutal as that sounds. Mainoo had proven previously he has the tools to be a top player if the system isn’t setting him up to fail.
Ugarte’s first touch isn’t going to change in a new system. He’s not good enough.
I basically admitted that I was wrong about him. Such a weird response.
The crazy thing is people were saying he wasn’t good enough for the premier league at all. As if he hadn’t already had a lot of impressive performances against the leagues better teams before Amorim tried to bin him off. Or just had a great Euros.
People were acting like if we were to start him, a win would be nearly impossible because he’s such a detriment, so Amorim was making the right decision of barely featuring him. It was crazy reading it at the time.
A bad performance will happen again because he’s young and inconsistent. It’s natural. You just have to hope that when it happens, the fans don’t turn on him again.
This was ultimately the problem. We hired a coach who doesn't use players like Mainoo, so he didn't fit in the team. In hindsight the senior leadership made the wrong choice in hiring a coach that played this way, if we wanted him to succeed. It was just expected Mainoo to find a way into that, which was never going to happen. Mainoo is never going to be a high energetic box to box CM needed for that system to work and he's not a 10 in that system. Much like he wouldn't have worked in those gegenpressing Red bull systems that were the rage for a bit.
One positive I can see in all of this, is he's been physically protected a bit and not played a ridiculous amount of games for a teenager and now has a manager that is pretty much nailed on to play him every week for 90 mins and has confience in him. It's an extremely good foundation to build on for next season when we hopefully will be playing a lot more games.
This is a made up point, nobody is saying this, the point I argued is Mainoo was praised for okayish performance and I doubt other player would get that praise because Kobbie is hyped to an extreme, meaning he gets a lot of praise (when we win) and a lot of shit (when we lose) - even if his performance wasn't that much different).
Exactly, all true. This isn't even Mainoo vs Ugarte discussion, more about how players are perceived differently just because the result was positive or not.
I can’t believe everyone fell for the conman Ruben Amorim.
I said it was brutal, sorry
These extremes are just the world we live in now I guess. People will naturally rush to defender players if they feel they’ve been jumped on wrongly, like Kobbie.
I don’t know if it’s possible to improve those things, especially pace. You typically don’t see players all of a sudden become better at something like long passing, as it’s something that would have been highlighted at a young age and then developed properly. Mainoo is a ball carrier and what I like to call a one two expert, he is exceptional at those and his first touch is elite level.
I think it’s all about who you put beside him… other than Bruno and Martinez, we really don’t have a player that you can trust to ping 50 yard switches into wide areas, so someone like Anderson will compliment mainoo really well.
He’s looked great every time he’s played against a big team too. Incredible performances in a cup final v city, in the 4-3 game v Liverpool, last week v city and then yesterday he wasn’t as good but still didn’t look out of place. He’s a special talent, and has a manager who understands what he needs to be offering the team better than anyone.
I love Mainoo, but there’s a lot I still need to be convinced of. His involvement is just too limited for the role he is being asked to play, which is essentially the ‘ball player’ in the midfield. He doesn’t really have the range of passing yet, but more importantly - large stages of games just pass him by. I attribute this largely due to him not having the capacity to get around the pitch to enable constant involvement.
I’ve always said that I see him more as the third midfielder than one of the first two. I think the big mistake we will make this summer is targeting one midfielder with the requirement to partner Mainoo. We need a whole new engine - with two players expected to start. Mainoo can then be a sub, and depending upon what happens with Bruno - he can potentially be the third midfielder in a slightly different look.
To me, he does most of what he does very well, but he just doesn’t do enough of it in a game. We cannot have a ‘moments’ or ‘highlights’ central midfielder in the pivot. ‘Moments’ are far more required from the third midfielder than, and I think a dribble or goal is more his strength, and alongside say - Anderson and Baleba - would give us an incredibly solid midfield base. He doesn’t have Bruno’s incisive passing, but then Bruno doesn’t have his dribbling ability.
He’s basically of an almost identical profile to Paul Pogba, who I think was firstly always suited to being the third midfielder, and secondly - a fair bit more talented in any case which could justify attempts to make it work.
I’ve always said that I see him more as the third midfielder than one of the first two. I think the big mistake we will make this summer is targeting one midfielder with the requirement to partner Mainoo. We need a whole new engine - with two players expected to start. Mainoo can then be a sub, and depending upon what happens with Bruno - he can potentially be the third midfielder in a slightly different look.
To me, he does most of what he does very well, but he just doesn’t do enough of it in a game. We cannot have a ‘moments’ or ‘highlights’ central midfielder in the pivot. ‘Moments’ are far more required from the third midfielder than, and I think a dribble or goal is more his strength, and alongside say - Anderson and Baleba - would give us an incredibly solid midfield base. He doesn’t have Bruno’s incisive passing, but then Bruno doesn’t have his dribbling ability.
He’s basically of an almost identical profile to Paul Pogba, who I think was firstly always suited to being the third midfielder, and secondly - a fair bit more talented in any case which could justify attempts to make it work.
I mean, it'd have been one thing to accept Amorim’s treatment of Mainoo had we been winning, but no. We were dropping points more often than not, and generally looking rubbish, and he still refused to give him a chance. Even after impressive cameos as a sub.
@statpadders made this great post back when Amorim wasn't playing him:
To which I replied with:He has. Just because he can't run like a headless chicken all over the pitch, doesn't mean he hasn't shown effort. Players who are elegant on and off the ball don't automatically lack effort.
We haven't looked worse when he comes on. None of us can remember all the matches and all the (few) minutes he has played in those. BTW he has just played 171 minutes in the PL over 14 matches (1260 minutes) so that's an incredible 12 minutes on average per match.
Let's look at his performances this season with some colors
Burnley: 45 minutes: Excellent. We scored all our goals after Kobbie comes on ----
City: 28 minutes: For some reason, Kobbie isn't rewarded for his excellent performance against Burnley and comes on only after we go 2-0 down against City. Okay game ----
Chelsea: 3 minutes:
Brentford: 24 minutes: Loses the ball in the 90th minute which results in a goal. We were already losing 2-1 ----
Sunderland: 13 minutes: We are winning 2-0, keeps it simple ----
Liverpool: 5 minutes
Brighton: 20 minutes. Okay game. Not at fault for any of the 2 goals we concede late. ----
Everton: 32 minutes: A collective sh** display against 10 men. Can not do much here. ----
Palace: 1 minute
So yeah, he hasn't been bad at all even when given as few minutes. I don't want to make this into another Bruno thread but our captain was one of our worst players until our purple patch this season, yet Kobbie didn't get a look in.
In fact the most damning evidence of our manager being unfair is when we go back to last season, Kobbie comes on and scores a wonderful goal to take the game to extra time against Lyon. After that how many minutes does he get in the next rounds of EL? 6, 9 and 1 minute in the final.
I genuinely don’t understand how fans can’t see how poorly our manager handles player minutes. We’re willing to throw one of our best talents under the bus for a manager who plays everyone out of position and is unbelievably rigid and stubborn.
A large section of our fanbase genuinely started acting like he wasn't a good footballer just to defend a terrible manager.
Love watching him play. Against city when he turned that city defence and sent him the wrong way. That was class
Was Semenyo wasn't it
Ye I meant that city attacker
He reminds me of Kovacic at times.
I remember some game where Kante and Kovacic were in midfield for Chelsea against Liverpool while they were just pressing teams to death and being jealous that they kept them in the game by basically never giving the ball away and linking up well in tight spaces and their teammates getting a second on the ball as a result after a 1-2 or they were able to hit it to them before they got forced into a turnover.
Maybe had McFred in midfield? That would explain why I was surprised to see a team's fullbacks and wingers pass to their midfielders who were trying to play their way out from situations, as we'd have been in hell trying to do that (no disrespect to the people of Napoli intended).
I remember some game where Kante and Kovacic were in midfield for Chelsea against Liverpool while they were just pressing teams to death and being jealous that they kept them in the game by basically never giving the ball away and linking up well in tight spaces and their teammates getting a second on the ball as a result after a 1-2 or they were able to hit it to them before they got forced into a turnover.
Maybe had McFred in midfield? That would explain why I was surprised to see a team's fullbacks and wingers pass to their midfielders who were trying to play their way out from situations, as we'd have been in hell trying to do that (no disrespect to the people of Napoli intended).
I’ve seen a stat that Mainoo was the player who covered most ground in the last two games.
I think he just looks slow or unathletic because of his running technique, in a similar way that Pogba or Yaya Toure looked slow because they took long strides and didn’t just sprint all over the pitch.
I think he just looks slow or unathletic because of his running technique, in a similar way that Pogba or Yaya Toure looked slow because they took long strides and didn’t just sprint all over the pitch.
Where that hilton guy convincing everybody how shit Mainoo actually was all along?
Speed and covering distance are clearly different attributes.
The next few games will be important for him. We are expected to have more of the ball and break down a deep lying defence. He’ll need to show more creativity and responsibility in an attacking sense. Let’s hope he does well because he has done the defensive side of things really nicely these past two games.
Thanks for not getting the point mate.
Most criticism about Mainoo was his lack of physical attributes, people saying he can’t cover ground, is too slow etc.
My point is there are some players that look like they’re unathletic because of their running technique, which makes them look slow. And let’s be honest, most people watching a game on TV only see a fraction of the pitch, so when you think a player is slow, you also assume he lacks other physical attributes to cover ground.
In simpler terms, if you look slow, people think you don’t run.
Mainoo does nothing...just perfect ball control in a packed midfield then nutmegging the "best" cm in the league to set up our winning goal.