Well said. It took a while for Carrick to be fully appreciated for the type of player he was as he wasn't the typical English midfilder
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
That’s what he needs to do for now, be available and keep the ball moving, he’s getting back into some form so the more of the ball he can get the better.Simple but effective! Sign a new contract please.
Props for admitting that. Genuine question though, what was it that made you believe this? Was it belief in Amorim? Was it just thinking that his form meant that he just wasn't a good player?
He had already had a season showing more than enough to want to nurture into a first teamer and is very young so I am trying to understand the logic of those that thought he needed to be discarded or wasn't good enough to get games for some reason.
Thought he was excellent today.
Don't take this the wrong way but why are you so concerned with correcting narratives pre-emptively or after the fact? Also the previous posts before yours, for this game at least, are simply complimenting his all around game, nothing specifically about 'his passing is amazing and it has improved leaps and bounds'.
As for the bolded, this is bit of a strawman as I don't think many if any are claiming that. It's more along the lines of 'Amorim is a fraud and ergo his use of players like Mainoo was objectively wrong'. Mainoo is not the sole or even the major reason but he is absolutely doing his part (as has everybody else). Carrick's formation putting players where they are most comfortable and his tactics have been the single biggest reason IMO.
Care to point out these many examples? I think you've conflated and jumped the gun with 'Mainoo had a good/great game' with 'his passing has been amazing and definitely proves how posters like xyz were wrong'.
Every time he plays amorims's stock drops just a bit more. Imagine we had lost him and kept amorim.
Amorim really was horrendous.
Mainoo’s best performance of the season. He is so composed and is a metronome with his snappy short passing.
Mainoo’s best performance of the season. He is so composed and is a metronome with his snappy short passing.
Why are you concerned with me doing it? We can ask ourselves those questions all the time. A lot of posters in here use this thread as another tool to hit the previous manager (which I accept) but also posters that, in their view, were on the wrong side. Why are they doing that? Just look at the posts after todays match and how many have references like that.
Mainoo is doing his part, just like any other player I agree. But that doesn't mean that he fit the role the former manager had for him. You can absolutely criticize that plan and that role description (I did as well) but that isn't connected with the players skillset. I'll try to make it more tangible: If Carrick came up with a plan that relies on the RB to be super influential in the buildup and chance creation, I would say thats not a great plan, but if that should be the plan then we need an upgrade on Dalot since he lacks the game intelligence to fulfill this role. If the next manager changes the plan where the RB isn't required to add so much in the buildup, then we are talking about a better plan - but Dalots game intelligence hasn't went up. Dalots game intelligence in that example would be Mainoos long passing ability.
I might have conflated things but I reacted to references to the former manager and game plan and back then, many of the posters that are now proclaimed as "misled ones" said that we should sell him because he is a bad player - they were also saying that he currently doesn't have the passing range to flourish the role he was supposed to play in. I may conflate things now, but stuff has been conflated in here for quite some time. Again, I agree with your take, he has played well and he has stuff to improve on and should get game time to do so.
Let's remember that if Amorim hadn't virtually sacked himself then that very easily could have happened.
Berrada and Wilcox just got lucky that Amorim wanted out so badly, as I'm sure they'd have let Kobbie go at least on loan in January if not.
The balance in midfield is much better with him and Casemiro than it was, that's for sure, so we're a better team with him in it.
Really need to get the midfield signings right this summer. Build around him and Bruno ( cause we should be asking him to stay).
This is very true. Thank god he sacked himself because the clowns up top weren’t going to.
It’s not just that, it’s that we are playing in a way that compliments Mainoo and co. Associative, fluid, players in close proximity looking to combine with each other.
Shocker that your team will be better when you play to their strengths instead of pigeonholing them into a failed system and then throwing a tantrum about how you need a bunch of new players.
Debate the points and not the narratives? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no place for it because sometimes people are not discussing in good faith. I have done it many times myself but it can also come across from a place of insecurity, especially if you're going to conflate and pre-empt things.
That's fair if you take that on face value. My interpretation of the overarching points wasn't so much 'he doesn't suit Amorim's setup', it was 'why are you saying/defending this when none of the players look suited in Amorim's setup'? That's on the top of the objective measures where there very was little reason in trying to see things from a badly performing foundation. When the plan is so fundamentally flawed (for all), why are we looking and justifying the details of criticism for a potentially good player that hasn't been platformed or given one to prove otherwise?
There's a middle ground between thinking 'he doesn't suit the former manager' and 'his overall skills aren't good enough (yet)', which is 'how about you use your players better'. These recent games are not proof Mainoo is the answer, it's proof that actually he does ability to contribute to a performing team, an issue Amorim created and compounded himself with his nonsensical system/management.
Agreed. He's got higher levels to go and I expect that from him.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't detract from his good to solid performances that he's had so far since being back in the team just for agendas.
I just want to reiterate that our owners leaked to the media and lied claiming kobbie was asking for an absurd amount because they wanted to sell him. A bunch of you took it as gospel (go check the thread) and said he could feck off.
His general work rate is top notch, but one of the points he got critized for under Ruben
He ran the show today. That was a perfect performance from him. Carrying the ball forward. Composed in the final 3rd. That's the form of 2 years ago. Sublime
If him and Bruno are locked in starters, who is the best partner?
Basically, who is the Casemiro replacement that works alongside Mainoo and Bruno.
Basically, who is the Casemiro replacement that works alongside Mainoo and Bruno.
I think that's because Casemiro plays a riskier game when he attacks, he's not really a metronome, he'll take the riskier pass/move instead of being steady. Even in RM he wasn't the metronome, Kroos and Modric were the ones who helped set the tempo. Here it's the same, Casemiro wants to be more attacking and pushes the ball forward more, but so does Bruno and he'll make poor passes because of it. So we need one player to be the release valve the tempo maker and also the ball recycler. That's Mainoo's role in this setup, he gives everyone time to breathe and slow it down when we need to and he can recycle the ball to attack again.
I think with someone like Anderson or Baleba he'll be the more progressive midfielder because he doesn't have to be the one to calm things down
Wharton, Anderson or Baleba
Baleba or Anderson we need the physicality for me
Hear your point, but we will have to disagree. Casimero (and Bruno...) could both do what Mainoo does. Mainoo is young, and he is learning. I sincerely hope, that he is learning, because he needs to. He is playing behind Bruno, with a simple mandate of doing job to protect back four, and keep things simple. This is fine, but it is hardly a staggeringly exceptional contribution.
I ask this about any midfielder: Are they goalscorers/ creative? Are they ball-winners, with drive, power, speed, authority? Or are they passers, setting tempo, slowing the game down, spotting a pass.. getting us on the ball?
I am a critic at times, but I do like Mainoo. But I fear that some may over-hype him. I personally, am still unclear what Mainoo's top skillset is and this will emerge in time. But just passing the ball square is ok, but I expect more than that from a Manchester united midfielder. Mainoo doesn't want to be yet another bright young, decent midfielder.
Do you remember Jack Rodwell?
Mainoo can learn everything he needs from Bruno, Casimero and Carrick. Everything.
The next Dele Alli, right? Some terrible takes here writing him off only a year ago that look pretty foolish now.
How did they play at 20? Give me your match reports
Seems like you don't like calm players. If they arent all action they arent trying, despite running around and being involved a lot
Is there proof of that?
I foolishly thought that the manager should know what he sees on the training ground, and I probably have seen too many disappointments like Garnacho, Sancho who (in my opinion it appears) believe they've ve made it and don't have the Drive to continue to put in the effort anymore. Thought maybe Kobie was the same.
Anyway, glad Mainoo is back and performing well.
If he keeps up his current level he's Bruno Guimares level at the age of 20
Its only been a couple of games. He needs to do it over a prolonged period of course. But in that short time, over few matches he looks the best young midfielder in the league. And yes he is aided by being in the most in form team in the league for those matches, compared to Anderson for example who is in a relegation fight... But Mainoo is part of the reason we're in form and his introduction came at the same time we started our winning streak so a little credit please
Its only been a couple of games. He needs to do it over a prolonged period of course. But in that short time, over few matches he looks the best young midfielder in the league. And yes he is aided by being in the most in form team in the league for those matches, compared to Anderson for example who is in a relegation fight... But Mainoo is part of the reason we're in form and his introduction came at the same time we started our winning streak so a little credit please
What we could do with a more athletic version of him.
You can’t build around them without a proper CDM, so it’s all about Casemiro replacement.
So has he signed that contract yet?!...
There’s nothing to indicate Amorim would have done that anyway. Bruno didn’t seem to fit the profile of what he wanted in a right or left 10, and seemed absolutely set on Bruno playing deeper in MF. If Mainoo was a better long passer I still don’t think Amorim would have started him.
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Ironically, we basically need a 25 year old Carrick to hit smart, medium range passes (Mainoo isn't an incisive passer yet, we'll see if that develops or not) and a solid screen in front of the defence.
As for today, Mainoo is always going to look like a prime Moussa Dembele against a 10 man team, his first touch, strength and awareness of where the nearest pressing midfielder is to him are his elite qualities and so down a man you won't really get the ball of him.
I do agree that he's got a sloppy mistake in him on basic passes (unlike say Casemiro, who gives it away with more wild flick attempts and such) but that doesn't seem like a big deal for a 20 year old.
He looks less slow, not sure if that's him or smaller gaps in midfield helping him. Casemiro got done for pace like usual a couple times today but Mainoo didn't, and he's solid and competitive in the air and in duels, particularly for his age.
Excellent display. We had a man advantage but he looked great regardless.
Modern game isn't a great watch but we have some gems in our team. He's a really clever player.
He’s soon 21 years old. People here were complaining about Carrick’s physique and ability well into his late 20s, and then he aged like fine wine. I believe Mainoo has so much more to come and is already class. If Carrick stays he will be a perfect mentor for him too.
I think Baleba or Wharton would work, and then depends what you prioritize.
Has to be a sitting midfielder focused on the defensive positioning side of the game. Mainoo does that, but he'll naturally roam a bit too which is fine as he's the #8. You need the 6 who really focuses on just staying in the middle.
Wharton has better technical qualities with his passing range and press resistance, but he lacks physicality and pace, and would be a huge negative on set pieces without the "potential" of growing that ability that Casemiro has.
Baleba is pretty press resistant himself and has much better energy, physical attributes and can carry the ball decently. He has shown he has the talent on the ball, but not as refined or consistent with his passing and technical qualities as the other. Both very young, but Baleba I think can grow this side of his game more and really have that passing range and be that physical monster.
I think Baleba is the safer option in terms of less likely to fail in that midfield. Wharton could go wrong, and Anderson I think is class but is very much a "instead of Mainoo" guy, as he likes picking up the ball like Mainoo does and moves around rather than sits and focuses on defensive positioning. Also Anderson gives a physicality loss with set pieces which is a big deal with Casemiro and has to be valued. Baleba the only one who could get there with that.
Wharton and Mainoo will be a disastrous combo unless it’s with a strong tackler next to them putting in the hard yards instead of Bruno.