[amolbhatia50k]

7/10 performance and lot better than Casemiro and Bruno who were pretty meh.

Agree

 

[Gavinb33]

Always interesting those stat man Dave posts because looking at that you'd think Mainoo played amazing tonight but my interpretation coming away from tonight's game was he was just alright.

Nothing amazing but wasn't bad either just ok. Gaps between the midfield looked way too big for huge portions of the game and him and Cas where to slow getting back a few times for my liking.

Mainoo played the best out of all our midfielders, Case and Bruno were absolutely shocking so he had little support, against any PL team it's hard to cover for 2 of your teammates playing absolutely shit

 

[Smores]

Had lots of really good moments but overall his style when paired with Casemiro in a two causes issues. It's just too slow and passive, pair him next to someone with more energy and it may not be an issue.

Was a tough game though as Everton packed the middle.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Coped as well as could be expected against a packed Everton midfield. Casemiro and Bruno had an off night yet Kobbie managed to keep things in check, just.

 

[Grande]

Had lots of really good moments but overall his style when paired with Casemiro in a two causes issues. It's just too slow and passive, pair him next to someone with more energy and it may not be an issue.

Was a tough game though as Everton packed the middle.

For me it was a bit a game of two halves. First half he was bright and useful, and took care of the ball well and kept up flow, which was important with so many players being erratic on the ball (Casemiro, Bruno, Cunha, Amad, Mbeumo, Dalot, Yoro). He had a part in us controlling the midfield in the first half.

Second half Everton took over midfield, with more players, winning more duels and more intensive movement. Both Mainoo and Casemiro suffered under this. It didn’t help them that both Bruno and Cunha in particular were very indisciplined in how they related to pressing position (not for lack of effort, but with the same result). But they as a pair lack the combined mobility, burst and proactiveness in defending to counter that problem, and we just ceded the control of the game. Luckily that opened up for our options on the counter, which gave us as many dangerous attacks as in the first half. And luckily Lammens and Maguire managed to scoop up all the Everton pressure.

A plus for Mainoo in the second half setting up the Mbeumo chance after good proactive defending and a good ball into a dangerous area.

 

[Smores]

For me it was a bit a game of two halves. First half he was bright and useful, and took care of the ball well and kept up flow, which was important with so many players being erratic on the ball (Casemiro, Bruno, Cunha, Amad, Mbeumo, Dalot, Yoro). He had a part in us controlling the midfield in the first half.

Second half Everton took over midfield, with more players, winning more duels and more intensive movement. Both Mainoo and Casemiro suffered under this. It didn’t help them that both Bruno and Cunha in particular were very indisciplined in how they related to pressing position (not for lack of effort, but with the same result). But they as a pair lack the combined mobility, burst and proactiveness in defending to counter that problem, and we just ceded the control of the game. Luckily that opened up for our options on the counter, which gave us as many dangerous attacks as in the first half. And luckily Lammens and Maguire managed to scoop up all the Everton pressure.

A plus for Mainoo in the second half setting up the Mbeumo chance after good proactive defending and a good ball into a dangerous area.

I think it's formation issues we've seen time and time again with 4231. The two either sit really deep (the McFred) or they step up but then get outnumbered and played through. If we stick with 4231 the manager has to figure out how to resolve the two man midfield issue whether it's an inverted fullback or a winger coming central.

Bruno is an excellent midfielder the simplest solution would be to go 433. It will suit both Casemiro and Mainoo. It's not like Bruno in the pocket is being utilised all that much as he can be crowded out and lacks pace to counter that. In a 3 you'll just have the closest midfielder step up into the gap which will help Mainoo as he won't have to worry about exposing Casemiro.

 

[Silas]

I wish he was more eager to get on the ball.

 

[El Jefe]

The whole midfield was average today, we struggled to really get on the ball and really dictate how the game would go. Mainoo was neat and tidy but not much more than that.

One thing I’ve noticed is Casemiro and Bruno often go for the risky forward passes so it often means build up is abandoned and a lot of the time Mainoo’s safer passing actually offers us balance. With no Martinez today it was important we had someone like Mainoo to keep recycling possession or it would have been like a ping pong game.

 

[Hammondo]

The whole midfield was average today, we struggled to really get on the ball and really dictate how the game would go. Mainoo was neat and tidy but not much more than that.

One thing I’ve noticed is Casemiro and Bruno often go for the risky forward passes so it often means build up is abandoned and a lot of the time Mainoo’s safer passing actually offers us balance. With no Martinez today it was important we had someone like Mainoo to keep recycling possession or it would have been like a ping pong game.

A real lack of athletic ability.

 

[bosnian_red]

I wish he was more eager to get on the ball.

Hes got the ability and he's already improved a ton with this the last month, he's consistently been among the top in terms of touches and passes when he's on the pitch. You gotta remember that he's only 20, has so much room for growth and so much time.

 

[poleglass red]

He done okay for me, could easily have had an assist if Mbuemo tucked away that cross he put in for him. Difficult conditions, Casemiro and Bruno were absent, both looked very tired which was strange considering they've both had a 2 week break. Been happy with him since Carrick has come in.

 

[Silas]

Hes got the ability and he's already improved a ton with this the last month, he's consistently been among the top in terms of touches and passes when he's on the pitch. You gotta remember that he's only 20, has so much room for growth and so much time.

Of course. Like you say, so many years ahead of him. I’m pretty hopeful.

 

[Lash]

The whole midfield was average today, we struggled to really get on the ball and really dictate how the game would go. Mainoo was neat and tidy but not much more than that.

One thing I’ve noticed is Casemiro and Bruno often go for the risky forward passes so it often means build up is abandoned and a lot of the time Mainoo’s safer passing actually offers us balance. With no Martinez today it was important we had someone like Mainoo to keep recycling possession or it would have been like a ping pong game.

To a degree, but he was a bit Joe Allen-ish. He always nearly avoided a line breaking pass in favour of a safe one, which made it easier for Everton to defend when he was on the ball. If that's his role, then fine, but I'd like a bit more from him.

 

[Andersonson]

That's a strange critique of him for this match considering he had 96% pass completion rate.
I'm genuinely asking here but how much of your opinion was based on your live watch of the game and then afterwards with the stats? I'm assuming you're referring to the dispossessions and unstable (?) touches for Mainoo?

From memory I think quite a few of those touches were when Mainoo was 'creating' and in disadvantageous situations. He definitely could have done better but looking at the video and just glancing at their positions throughout the match, I think there's a clear positional difference. Casemiro was the deepest receiving from the centre backs and then Mainoo a little further ahead as the central option or in the final third. The issue is that Everton were blocking the middle very well and our ball progression by the likes of Shaw, Maguire and Yoro were very poor. So aside from the two midfielders, a lot of the progressive ball actions came from Dalot or Amad/Mbeumo and Bruno, all who had to come towards the ball or deeper. This lead to Everton crowding out the space and getting lots of interceptions. Of course most of our players were poor anyways.

Looking at the no. of passes and accuracy percentages, I'll probably conclude Casemiro had a higher volume due to his deeper position (e.g passes to CBs and square balls to FBs) but lower accuracy because he tried to do too much also with the progressive/through balls. It's systematic issue as much of a personnel. I'd still stand by my comment that Mainoo is more or less 'alone' in being the natural rhythmic midfielder whilst Casemiro (too eager) and Bruno (ill position) are on different wavelengths.

Something for Carrick and the coaching staff to think about if they recognises this.

I watched the game and felt he wasnt up to speed, became better in the 2nd half. I looked at stats when I saw people on here claiming he did very well, but the stats I saw backed up that he lost the ball several times. That being said, he looks a lot better now than during Amorims time. But I think he looks very good mostly because of Casemiro who does a lot for him. I struggle to see how he can lead the midfield next season. But I hope i am wrong. I dont think he was very good during the euros either, but i think a lot of people disagree with me on that view.

 

[FrankWhite]

I thought he was the best front 7 player in the first half, only one that seemed to have some composure on the ball when everyone else was all over the place. Second half was tough for everyone. Everton did a great job of disrupting those close interplays we managed to create in previous matches. We never really settled as a team.

 

[ben fear]

Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Thanks mate - then I'll admit I was wrong, and Bruno was very poor yesterday, no doubt.

No worries mate, I wasn't trying to pull you up on it or anything. I usually find myself agreeing with your comments, so had to double take and question whether I had missed Everton's man marking on my first watch.

 

[Rossa]

No worries mate, I wasn't trying to pull you up on it or anything. I usually find myself agreeing with your comments, so had to double take and question whether I had missed Everton's man marking on my first watch.

Cheers - likewise! Who knows, perhaps I was deluded into thinking so for him not working himself out of it. Bruno is absolutely one you can push off the ball, but as he proved against Fulham, he can be very clever and just avoid those situations and drift into pockets of space. Against Everton he just struggled with space, with passing, retention. Most likely just a poor day at the office.

 

[klayton88]

Joggie Mainoo.

 

[Olecurls99]

If we buy 2 CMs in the summer he can find himself out of the team again.

Still all potential at this stage, he either improves his physicality to develop into a screener who can break the press with his ball carrying, or his medium and long passing to be a playmaker. At the moment he’s just looking tidy in there without really impacting the games. Hand on heart can anybody say he has improved on the player he was 2 years ago?

This is it for me

 

[Matt851]

Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.

It's very different to mount who is an experienced attacking player on a huge salary. He is playing as one of two deeper midfielders and as someone has previously mentioned casemiro and Bruno often play risky passes and give the ball away a lot so his recycling of possession offers sone valance.

He still has a way to develop but he is doing well for the team

 

[ManhattanRed]

He doesn’t seem to take over a game, but his talent is there for all to see. I actually think his best position is going to end up being closer to goal. If we get a true runner/ball winner with him then maybe that will free him up and see him affect games more.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Cheers - likewise! Who knows, perhaps I was deluded into thinking so for him not working himself out of it. Bruno is absolutely one you can push off the ball, but as he proved against Fulham, he can be very clever and just avoid those situations and drift into pockets of space. Against Everton he just struggled with space, with passing, retention. Most likely just a poor day at the office.

The game was bit of a mess so it was hard tracking everyone's involvement to be fair. I think Bruno and Carrick/the manager needs to find the right balance between the 'freedom' to roam and being disciplined in his positioning. Too often I feel he's too far apart or not a 'part' of the midfield. He can be very good with his first touch under pressure with feints and hesitations, things in his locker that can help the team massively if he was to focus more on build up and passing.

 

[Trex]

If we buy 2 CMs in the summer he can find himself out of the team again.

Still all potential at this stage, he either improves his physicality to develop into a screener who can break the press with his ball carrying, or his medium and long passing to be a playmaker. At the moment he’s just looking tidy in there without really impacting the games. Hand on heart can anybody say he has improved on the player he was 2 years ago?

I think if he'll be a long term success at United it would be as a 6.
There two kinds of 8s in football, those that have the passing range to play the game at their own pace and run the whole show (Xavi, Scholes) and those who can cover every blade of grass tackling, intercepting and scoring goals.
He's neither, he is composed but limited in passing and he's no physical beast in terms of mobility or stamina.

At the moment Casemiro is the screen the one most likely to win the ball back or intercept and the same time the one who's most likely to create or score. Mainoo is more like the sidekick instead of a true partner.
Not to many players can replicate what Casemiro does, Mainoo needs to show more or he'll get replaced easily by one of the summer signings.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.

Watch the full games rather than highlights. It would be great in Mainoo developed his qualities in both boxes but as things stand his quality with regards to ball retention and profession are very good.

See the chance he created for Mbeumo or all the times he’s broken a press.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Are we back to saying he’s shite and not good enough?

Crazy expectations for a 20yo midfielder.

Most midfielders will change their roles during their careers, and only have an established role around 23-24, it’s really a position that requires experience for a player to develop.

 

[Isotope]

Joggie Mainoo.

He's been way more aggressive, with his pitch covering and fight for the ball.

It still feels like Mainoo - Casemiro isn't an ideal partnership. Both could be paired with a more dynamic one, in the mold of Rice or Caicedo.

 

[lex talionis]

Perhaps we should be a bit more judicious in how we judge Kobbie Mainoo. Unlike Casemiro, who is 34 years old and Bruno, who is 31 — both of whom are undeniably world class footballers (but I’m sure there will be deniers here) — Kobbie is still only 20 years old.

Kobbie, does not look at all out place in midfield with Casemiro and Bruno, and it seems indisputably has been central to the dramatic improvement in our team performances during the Carrick resurgence. Kobbie had been frozen out of any meaningful action by Amorim but when called upon by Carrick hit the ground running.

The notion that Kobbie Mainoo has failed to meet expectations for his age is utterly bizarre.

 

[Olecurls99]

The notion that Kobbie Mainoo has failed to meet expectations for his age is utterly bizarre.

It is. Who said it?

 

[lex talionis]

It is. Who said it?

I prefer not to embarrass other posters, but I’ll copy and paste one post:

“Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.“

Unless, of course, the mistake is mine and this quote actually refers to someone other than Kobbie Mainoo.

 

[Olecurls99]

I prefer not to embarrass other posters, but I’ll copy and paste one post:

“Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.“

Unless, of course, the mistake is mine and this quote actually refers to someone other than Kobbie Mainoo.

But who said he failed to meet expectations? The expectations on the Kobbie hype train are that he's a generational talent and that he knits everything together.

We didn't see that the last 2 games. I think he's got bags of potential but he needs lots of development.

 

[lex talionis]

But who said he failed to meet expectations? The expectations on the Kobbie hype train are that he's a generational talent and that he knits everything together.

We didn't see that the last 2 games. I think he's got bags of potential but he needs lots of development.

What part of the sentence "Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does." do you not understand? Or how about this one? "Can't do anything other than a simple pass."

We're all entitled to our opinions, and perhaps I'm the who fails to see how poor really Mainoo is, but this indictment against Mainoo is clear. Unless, however, what you're arguing is that of course a 20 year shouldn't be expected to do anything other than making a simple pass.

I don't want to start a quarrel with you, so I'll just leave it as a reasonable difference of opinion, but in my opinion Kobbie Mainoo has already proven that he's already much more of a footballer than someone who has "bags of potential"...and those are your exact words.

 

[bosnian_red]

Sort of a bit like Mount. Spend most of the time wondering what he actually does. Doesn't create, doesn't score, doesn't win the ball. Can't do anything other than a simple pass.

It's easier to understand what he does if you watch him play and have played football yourself to be honest. Especially if you've played in midfield! Easy to see why he's a top talent.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[klayton88]

Oooo friends

 

[philnguyen1994]

Strange body language from him today. Barely celebrated Sesko's goal, barely any reaction after his miss from a decent long shot.

 

[Doracle]

Another really impressive performance. Love watching him play. So good at just keeping the ball moving. 90% pass success again.

 

[Godfather]

Thought he looked good on the ball. Positionally he was suspect though. His side was getting run over at times

 

[Isotope]

Back to his shell today. Not wanting to take any responsibility with penetrative passings. He looked like the slowest player from both teams.

 

[Olecurls99]

Very good game, especially the fighting in the 2nd half