It just shows how mad these conversations are when you realise Mainoo was playing in a Euro final at Kone’s age. There’s a 10 month age gap and people are writing Kobbie off, yet Kone hasn’t even got minutes in the premier league yet.
Kobbie Mainoo (out)
- Thread starter Licha-Vidic
- Start date
That’s what happens when you don’t assess the game by formula. All you’ve presented to me is a bunch of data which addresses none of the relative strengths and weaknesses of both players. It’s not actually an analysis of them at all, just raw mathematical facts that mean nothing in reality.
My projections are for the next two-three years. I can guarantee you that there are a number of footballers who have not made their debuts today who will be better than players who already have in two or three years. That is no formula for projecting anything.
Absolutely not shittin on Mainoo, I think he is the best midfielders in England alongside Rice (for the England NT)
Question is how much would wharton cost? 70m? I would imagine around that.
At least that. Basically, he’d cost what the really good players cost today. So if that’s what we want…
Yeah. Mainoo may turns into a world beater 10. But currently, he's actually the worst option there. He hasn't really done much as a 10, as the manager thinks others are better.
Yeah, he has to become a better player than what we've seen thus far for him to be a starter in this system.
At the 10, he needs to improve his athleticism and creativity
At DM, he needs to improve his athleticism and range of passing.
Worryingly, seeing his post-injury pics, I think he looks heavier than before, but hopefully I'm wro g.
If we get champions league footy, I'd do it.
You’re really over analysing this. I’ve not presented a bunch of data, I’ve just stated their age. Of course Kone could become better than Mainoo at some point in the future. You are welcome to ‘project’ (give your untrained opinion) on what you’re seeing, I’m simply suggesting that it’s crazy to write off a 19 year old based on a tough second season, it’s a story as old as time that young players might struggle in their second season. Especially when looking at physical traits.
Do we give Kone a year in the first team and sell him if he struggles to last 90 minutes, who’s next in line to get hyped and then tossed aside? I’m pretty sure if I bothered searching, you would have been praising Mainoo a few years ago and saying he’s going to replace McTominay or something.
I seriously don’t get why some fans think Kobbie can not develop in to an elite mobile Box to Box Midfielder in a 3421 system?
He’s not 20 until next week, he has that rare football IQ and spatial awareness which allows him to slow the game down when he controls the ball and the game, however he’s still very inexperienced and he has a lot to learn about what’s expected of him in his position. Most England fans thought he was a liability defensively then he saved the team with vital interceptions in the 1/4 and 1/2 final games in the Euros, he started to sniff out danger, took the ball from the defence and dictated the play.
His pass completion is ridiculous and he rarely gives the ball away, he can develop his long passing and he is fantastic at carrying the ball and dictating play with one touch football. I’ll admit he seems to have an engine problem and starts to gas at 65/70 minutes however he’s still understanding and developing into a full man’s physical frame.
I think the club should not entertain any thought of selling him, the club must allow Kobbie a full summer’s rest, last year he barely had 4 weeks which is why his body has struggled this year.
Ruben Amorim is not against playing 343 or 352 in certain situations and kobbie would thrive in 352 and also be much better in 343 where one of the full backs comes inverted and plays the third midfield role.
As he gets older I can see him developing into a top class number 10 because he can beat a man, has a great final pass, arrives late to score and can shoot outside the box and score. The club has 2+1 and his contract effectively doesn’t expire til 2028. We can sort out a new contract Xmas 2025 while we access how a proper rest affects his first team performances next season.
He’s not 20 until next week, he has that rare football IQ and spatial awareness which allows him to slow the game down when he controls the ball and the game, however he’s still very inexperienced and he has a lot to learn about what’s expected of him in his position. Most England fans thought he was a liability defensively then he saved the team with vital interceptions in the 1/4 and 1/2 final games in the Euros, he started to sniff out danger, took the ball from the defence and dictated the play.
His pass completion is ridiculous and he rarely gives the ball away, he can develop his long passing and he is fantastic at carrying the ball and dictating play with one touch football. I’ll admit he seems to have an engine problem and starts to gas at 65/70 minutes however he’s still understanding and developing into a full man’s physical frame.
I think the club should not entertain any thought of selling him, the club must allow Kobbie a full summer’s rest, last year he barely had 4 weeks which is why his body has struggled this year.
Ruben Amorim is not against playing 343 or 352 in certain situations and kobbie would thrive in 352 and also be much better in 343 where one of the full backs comes inverted and plays the third midfield role.
As he gets older I can see him developing into a top class number 10 because he can beat a man, has a great final pass, arrives late to score and can shoot outside the box and score. The club has 2+1 and his contract effectively doesn’t expire til 2028. We can sort out a new contract Xmas 2025 while we access how a proper rest affects his first team performances next season.
I don’t think I am. In fact, it seems you are. You said nothing that challenges my position on both players, you have simply said one is older and one is yet to debut. My own assessment is based upon watching the players and charting their prospective qualities and development scope. They will both be 25 one day, I’m not fussed with who gets there first.
I’ve also not ‘written off’ Kobbie Mainoo at all. And me praising Mainoo and saying he was going to replace McTominay a few years ago before Koné was a factor is irrelevant. And Mainoo DID replace McTominay anyway. That doesn’t mean a player therefore cannot later come along and replace him.
I think, most people who are critical are mostly about his current status, not about what he might become. At the end of the day, you see a lot of possibilities for him, which is fine but it isn't better than people who doubt, that he will make those changes.
I for one, agree with you, I think, there is enough potential to invest minutes into his development. That being said - if a crazy offer comes in that opens up other possibilities in terms of recruitment or the stuff about his demands in terms of wages arent total BS then there is also no reason not to think about letting him go. No player should be off limits but I personally, consider Kobbie in the highest category. And he is there rather alone, only coupled with Amad.
He might have struggled because he isn't an unknown entity anymore and teams were prepared for him. It takes nothing away from the player but you can't know for sure, what the reason for some of his performances are. Not having a rest is plausible. But we can come up with other plausible explanations as well.
No fullbacks in this formation. And I'd say, inverting the wingbacks doesn't make sense because that would take away the only element of width from the formation. It might work, but the effort of shuffling the team around is probably not worth it for the player Kobbie is right now.
I don't see him as a 10 at all. Certainly not in the traditional sense. In the Bellingham sense maybe. I said in the past, that I am a bit worried, that Kobbie could develop into some sort of Pogba, in terms of having great strength in his skill profile but not nailing down a position and therefor always difficult to build into a team. It is very early days of course but for me personally, I'd see if he develops the tools to play as an effective CM and if he achieves that, thats great. If not, United might not be the best place for him.
I’m not claiming your assessment that Kone will replace Mainoo is wrong, that’s your opinion and I certainly wouldn’t consider myself to know more than anyone else does on here. It’s just tiresome to see such negative comments (generally in the thread) against a 19 year old who is learning a new system. He’s being written off for things like stamina, yet our £50 million signing can’t last 60 minutes at the moment either.
You can look at player profiles and make your assessments if you like, doing it at reserve level is always a bit of a lottery. I’m sure there are plenty of young players who you’ve felt would make it and never did, let’s hope Kone does. In the mean time, Let’s give Kobbie time to figure out some of his weaknesses and continue improving over the next couple of years.
Part of his problem is that his passing is too safe. Thats why he he has a high pass completion. He is young and still has time on his side.
My main concern with Kobbie is his lack of pace and mobility off the ball.
When we’re being bypassed through the midfield, he struggles to get back and looks laboured.
When we’re being bypassed through the midfield, he struggles to get back and looks laboured.
You messed with a runner mate - us runners are utter bloody anoraks for stats and won't be blagged about.
That's why I've always found the Beckham myth of the beep test bloody annoying, as it's so utterly unrealistic.
Beckham's fitness was high for a footballer, but footballers don't get anywhere near the true aerobic elites seen in athletics, and they don't specifically train for it either.
I'd sell Garnacho over Kobbie any day.
Bingo, this is his biggest issue, he has most other things.
And yet today he looked fresh, fit and affected the game significantly when he came on today. He has everything else and he can develop his fitness.
Yeah he didn't have problems last year, but I think most people just remember this season. Mainoo is gonna have ups and downs like every other young midfielder, we have to give him time to grow and get better. No athlete is at his physical peak at 19/20 he's gonna probably have another 1-2 years of his body continuing to change. And another 2-3 years after that to reach his peak. Mainoo at 24/25 will be significantly be more fit than now, and I'm willing to give him time to get there.
Exactly, he looked sharp yesterday and one thing not in question is his football IQ, thats 100% Elite.
Yeah I mentioned in the match thread that he looked trimmer to me, hopefully he's been working on the right fitness plan for him while he's been out.
If he does develop he fitness/stamina he'll have it all.
I just think that if we get past Lyon we have a great chance with Shaw, Mount, Amad and Kobbie all fresh for hopefully those last three European games however, Onana mistakes yesterday definitely put this tie in serious jeopardy.
We need a great start on Thursday and we need to be ruthless and clinical from minute one or we will be in serious trouble?
Yeah, all eggs should now be in the Europa basket.
I can only see it being a very tense and nervy game. We don’t do ruthless and clinical any more!
We did against La Real to be fair!
We did but Lyon are much better than Sociedad, we need to attack all game and make sure we finish the job.
It's always weird to put such a strong prediction on a youth player who hasn't appeared for the first team is the thing. I don't know (or care) how much you or someone else watches the youth teams, it's just not something that can easily be projected with how they'll adapt from youth football to professional football.
In Amorims system though I'm not sure if the midfield is where he'll develop anyway (Mainoo). I agree he needs a midfield 3 for the specific role, while in Amorim's 2 he needs more aggressive energy and mainly passing range. Mainoo is more about short passing and link up and close control, which fits the left #10 for Amorim if anything but is a bit awkward throughout. He's young so it's fine, no doubt Mainoo will have a long career here, just he won't have a true home position under Amorim I think and will just be moved around as per need.
It can easily be predicted. Whether it is easy to predict accurately is different, but it is very easy to watch a 19 year old and feel that he has what it takes as a senior pro. It has happened, and will continue to happen many times in football. I was confident Greenwood would make it here, and he did. I was confident Laird would (injuries permitting), and he didn’t. But what can’t be taken away is the confidence from watching both. I am confident Koné will be a regular.
You are entitled to your own opinion, and I’m entitled to mine. At least mine is made solely on watching a player and forming my view, rather than generalisations such as ‘you can never say’ with young players.
Your opinions on Mainoo appear to be the same as what I’ve said anyway so no further comment there I guess.
I take back everything I've fecking said, let the lad write his own contract after that!
In my opinion he is the biggest talent we have had from the academy since Scholes. Not because of the goal today.
Rio is that you?I take back everything I've fecking said, let the lad write his own contract after that!
Can’t let this kid go at any cost, he has that rare talent of just slowing the game down when the ball at his feet.
And yet, where do we play him?
Where does he fit in modern athletic PL football?
He’s obviously supremely talented but where does he fit?
Also looked today like he was already gone in that interview after the game.
He’s 19 about to be 20 he doesn’t have to figure it out right now not even for another year or two. He’s consistently shown he’s got the talent, it’s up to Amorim or whoever the manager is in the future to get the best out of him. He showed last season how successful he could be, an up and down season doesn’t mean we give up on that talent. I think he’s worth 100-120K a week, I think both sides have probably said let’s table the contract discussions to the end of the season. Our financial situation may change dramatically if we’re in the CL and it may open up our purses for contract renewals.
And I saw that interview, I didn’t see that he was already gone, he was even smiling in parts of the interview. I think his demeanor can just come off as being aloof at times, but he cares.
Very well as he’s already shown. He’s a kid and has time to develop that side of his game. If he doesn’t he could still end up having a very good PL career, if he does he can end up a top class player.
Like many players, Mainoo can play in more than one position. He will be able to play as a central midfielder in the number 8 position or as an attacking midfielder just behind the striker. If we sell him it will become our biggest own goal.
Those words aged perfectly what a game!
It’s hard work supporting this team during 90mins, for 20mins your thinking we might actually be turning a corner and making progress then the next 20 they’ve capitulated and look totally lost like they’ve never discussed or practices team structures before!
he’ll sign a new deal.
We'd be out of our minds to sell him. World class talent.