Kobbie Mainoo

Raoul said:
A rather bleak hit piece from Jaime Jackson

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Read that this morning.

For some reason, probably first game of the season excitement, seem to have temporarily forgotten why I ditched my subscription.

Got to the first sentence of the second paragraph and it all came flooding back - “Now, at a club of serial false dawns and zero title challenges since Sir Alex Ferguson retired 12 years ago”.

Presume the anti united sentiment gets worse from here on in?

I had, a long time ago, tried to convince myself that I was being overly sensitive, perhaps too bias to accept some criticism. But then I remembered that these guy’s job is to write. They choose the words they use to do so, none of the language used is an accident.

Liew is by far the worst of their crew, which is going some and should probably earn some kind of award!
 
greater wall said:
We had Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund playing prominent roles in our cup wins and Amorim has already thrown two under the bus and blamed them for the teams poor showing. Getting rid of Mainoo would be the final straw.
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We would have every right to see selling Mainoo as the final straw. Unfortunately I think Amorim will start phasing him out and a lot of fans will just accept it. We're already seeing comments questioning his ability at such a young age and I think those comments will become more widespread as the season goes on.
 
I really want Kobbie to start demanding the ball and starting to show for passes to get more involved. I’m sure this is something that’s easily coachable. He needs to become the first pass that the defenders or goalkeeper look to make. Roy Keane was great at this, always available and a really underrated technique. He set the tempo, and was always open to be a passing option.

I often see Kobbie standing behind players, not open, or caught out of position usually out wide. As important as a first touch and technique in football is simply being in the right place and knowing where to be.

I’m not sure if it’s confidence, lack of fitness or simply lack of coaching. But he needs to find the spaces, be willing to receive the ball when marked, to be the player who dictates the game. He’s got all of the skills, and I really don’t think that his lack of athleticism is as important as some make out. We don’t want/need his to be all action, we need him to be positionally disciplined, to recycle possession, to be able to take the ball with his body open and to make the right decision. I’m sure he’s got all of these tools, he just needs to be taught how to use them.

Also, playing this way his apparent lack of speed will not be as apparent as he won’t be chasing back all of the time, he can use his intelligence to defend the space rather than rely upon physicality.
 
While for sentimental reasons I can understand why people don’t want to sell him. The flip side of that is possibly realising not every academy player breaking into the first team is going to be mainstay for the foreseeable future. There’s been players who barely played who looked promising but got sold like Keith Gillespie. There’s been players who looked amazing at first but never emulated those standards again in the future like John O’Shea.

It is possible we’ve already seen the best of Kobbie Mainoo for United. Three years from now he could hypothetically be still around the first team, being average at best and the people who said selling him would be a massive no-no back then would be the first people to complain about why we haven’t sold him.
 
I'm rather muted on Kobbie because I feel all this talk about his ability and game is a redundancy if he doesn't get up to par with the fitness needed to be a PL midfielder. You're just not going to make it if you have the engine of a semi-retired Eriksen, especially so in what are supposed to be your most spritely and excitable years.

I don't know what's gone so wrong for him in that department, but if it isn't sorted out, there won't be anything to say about him as a player because he won't get PT.
 
It has been slightly disappointing that we haven't seen the youth team version of Kobbie at first team level very much, but Christ, Jamie Jackson is an absolute wanker.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
We would have every right to see selling Mainoo as the final straw. Unfortunately I think Amorim will start phasing him out and a lot of fans will just accept it. We're already seeing comments questioning his ability at such a young age and I think those comments will become more widespread as the season goes on.
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Comments will be widespread because Mainoo has not progressed at all after his breakout season. His weaknesses had been exposed for all to see.

Amorim is not phasing him out, he gave him plenty of chances. The fact is Kobbie does not posses the engine, nor the physicality, nor the passing range to play in the middle of the park in the Premier League. He is not good enough in the number 10 positions either. He is another overhyped academy product that does not have the abilities to back it up.
 
Fortitude said:
I'm rather muted on Kobbie because I feel all this talk about his ability and game is a redundancy if he doesn't get up to par with the fitness needed to be a PL midfielder. You're just not going to make it if you have the engine of a semi-retired Eriksen, especially so in what are supposed to be your most spritely and excitable years.

I don't know what's gone so wrong for him in that department, but if it isn't sorted out, there won't be anything to say about him as a player because he won't get PT.
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Basically my thoughts on him currently, he doesn’t have the engine currently for whatever reason and even in his breakout season you thought he could only give you 60 mins or so.

Hope he improves as like you said, he won’t get PT.
 
SensibleRed said:
Comments will be widespread because Mainoo has not progressed at all after his breakout season. His weaknesses had been exposed for all to see.

Amorim is not phasing him out, he gave him plenty of chances. The fact is Kobbie does not posses the engine, nor the physicality, nor the passing range to play in the middle of the park in the Premier League. He is not good enough in the number 10 positions either. He is another overhyped academy product that does not have the abilities to back it up.
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Most young midfielders would get exposed in Amorim's system. Unless you have someone in the mould of peak Kante playing, our midfield 2 is set up to be overrun by most top half Premier League teams.

You say he isn't good enough to play in the number 10, but you do realise that's not the only alternative? If we had a manager who wasn't so petrified to change his formation then we could see Mainoo play as an 8 in a midfield 3. He forced his way into the England lineup en route to the Euros final in that position when Gallagher and Alexander-Arnold were initially preferred to start ahead of him. He returned from the Euros as a 19 year old, plays a few games under Ten Hag before he gets sacked, and then we never play a 4-3-3 again after that. That's enough evidence for you to write him off as a good enough Premier League midfielder? After all the promise he showed in a 4-3-3 the season before last?
 
Regardless what Amorim will achieve with United, he should be sacked if he can't find a way to get Mainoo playing as starter. Mainooo >>> United.
 
Yesterday's game showed why Mainoo will find it hard to get a start in this team against strong opposition.

  • He's not got the speed or ball carrying ability of Cunha or Mbeumo so he can't play as a 10.
  • He's not got the endurance or passing range of Bruno so he can't play the 8.
  • He's not got the tactical awareness and tackling ability of Casemiro so he can't play the 6.
  • He doesn't press as well as Mount so he can't play the false 9

Mainoo does have skills, but they will only be useful against weaker opponents who park the bus.

That's when he can come on for an Ugarte or Casemiro as an extra attacker who is capable of producing a moment of magic and win us the game.

He's the very definition of a luxury player. Someone who isn't good enough to start a game because of his inherent physical deficiencies but can be used as an impact sub.
 
I am a bit concerned with how things are going for him, especially when he’s not got that long left on his deal. He was brilliant when he first came through, I don’t think people were wrong to hype him up at all.

Hopefully he gets more game time against the lesser teams, but at the minute we’ve got that problem of Bruno being in his position. We’re going to have to replace Bruno sooner rather than later though, so we need to be aware of this.
 
I think Mainoo is a 5 a side player not an 11 a side player, as odd as that sounds his skill set just doesn't suit a big pitch! He isn't a gifted athlete so running looks like hard work for him, not quick, doesn't have an engine so struggles to keep up with play when games become stretched. Incredibly talented with the ball at his feet and in tight spaces, uses his body well but his passing range is always 10 yards and under so cant hit long balls like Bruno/Scholes wouldn't be able to really dictate the play.

It's a strange one as I think he could work in a midfield 3 or maybe as a 10 but in Amorims system I just can't see a position for him.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Yeah I'll reiterate my point, he will be gone soon enough. Not even getting on the pitch yesterday, hmm.
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He's 20 years old, we've lads playing in the reserves older than him. Kone is barely a year younger.

The fact he was promoted early doesn't suddenly mean he's not a young lad who needs time to develop.

He played more last season than the previous year and played in almost every game he wasn't injured. He doesn't need to play every minute and he certainly hasn't earned that.
 
People say his fitness is the only downfall, but the rest of his game is pretty poor, even passing is average at best. His real strength lies in his ability to retain possession in tight spaces at times, but then he lacks the ability to drive the ball forward.
 
-Supreme- said:
People say his fitness is the only downfall, but the rest of his game is pretty poor, even passing is average at best. His real strength lies in his ability to retain possession in tight spaces at times, but then he lacks the ability to drive the ball forward.
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On his best game, I don’t quite agree with that wording. He has shown in several games ability to both high passing retention and ability to thread passes directly and narrowly.

I think he has the technique required for it, but he lacks the decision apparatus so to speak, on when and where to pass, when to take risks, when to speed up. This is normal for young players.

Many young players look individually better than they are when comming fresh into a team, because the reason a young player is introduced is normally that he is the one with a profile that fits the team’s lack to a tee, and thus his strengths will be exposed and his weaknesses be camouflaged, until opponents wizen to his game, or the team needs change due to other players coming in, changes in tactics or in management. I think all this has happened to Mainoo. His weaknesses points were bigger than he looked under Ten Hag and Southgate, but so are his strengths bigger than they appear now. And his weaknesses can improve, if he has the wherewithal to work through it.

I think he is really young for the roles he has the talent to play (8 or 10), and he is not good enough yet to be a starter in any of those roles for the team we aim to be now. He maight move to a club that his current profile matches more perfectly, but I hope he stays and works on his skill set as an optional player in the Bruno no 8-ish midfield role.
 
I'll repeat the point I've made in other threads. Whoever plays in the midfield 2 is gonna struggle massively.

Especially, if you're a 20 year old who's only in his 3rd year of professional football under his 3rd different manager.
 
AndyMUFC said:
I am a bit concerned with how things are going for him, especially when he’s not got that long left on his deal. He was brilliant when he first came through, I don’t think people were wrong to hype him up at all.
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2 years + 1 year (?) so Mainoo has 3 seasons to find himself a permanent position at United.

He cost nowt and isn’t paid much so the emphasis is very much on him to improve and show his worth.
 
Grande said:
On his best game, I don’t quite agree with that wording. He has shown in several games ability to both high passing retention and ability to thread passes directly and narrowly.

I think he has the technique required for it, but he lacks the decision apparatus so to speak, on when and where to pass, when to take risks, when to speed up. This is normal for young players.

Many young players look individually better than they are when comming fresh into a team, because the reason a young player is introduced is normally that he is the one with a profile that fits the team’s lack to a tee, and thus his strengths will be exposed and his weaknesses be camouflaged, until opponents wizen to his game, or the team needs change due to other players coming in, changes in tactics or in management. I think all this has happened to Mainoo. His weaknesses points were bigger than he looked under Ten Hag and Southgate, but so are his strengths bigger than they appear now. And his weaknesses can improve, if he has the wherewithal to work through it.

I think he is really young for the roles he has the talent to play (8 or 10), and he is not good enough yet to be a starter in any of those roles for the team we aim to be now. He maight move to a club that his current profile matches more perfectly, but I hope he stays and works on his skill set as an optional player in the Bruno no 8-ish midfield role.
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Personally, even in his best games, his range of passing was fairly average compared to other midfielders in the Premier League. Yes, he's still young and will obviously improve, but whether his other skill sets are enough to compensate for this clear weakness (fitness) is very questionable.
 
-Supreme- said:
Personally, even in his best games, his range of passing was fairly average compared to other midfielders in the Premier League. Yes, he's still young and will obviously improve, but whether his other skill sets are enough to compensate for this clear weakness (fitness) is very questionable.
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Well, I guess it’s pretty clear I don’t agree with that assesment.
 
PowderKeg said:
Yesterday's game showed why Mainoo will find it hard to get a start in this team against strong opposition.

  • He's not got the speed or ball carrying ability of Cunha or Mbeumo so he can't play as a 10.
  • He's not got the endurance or passing range of Bruno so he can't play the 8.
  • He's not got the tactical awareness and tackling ability of Casemiro so he can't play the 6.
  • He doesn't press as well as Mount so he can't play the false 9

Mainoo does have skills, but they will only be useful against weaker opponents who park the bus.

That's when he can come on for an Ugarte or Casemiro as an extra attacker who is capable of producing a moment of magic and win us the game.

He's the very definition of a luxury player. Someone who isn't good enough to start a game because of his inherent physical deficiencies but can be used as an impact sub.
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Some good points made, although you also have to consider Casemiro's age, Bruno on occasion not playing as a CM, and Ugarte not being at his best at the moment. There will be plenty of chances of Mainoo to play. Hopefully we see him at the weekend or at midweek in the league cup.
 
He should watch Mac Allister and how he plays. Because that’s how I can see Mainoo developing.
 
If he genuinely wasn't in Amorim's plans then I think we'd have sold him this summer - he would have been easily our most bankable asset. I will hold off getting too concerned until we make a Beleba type signing and then see where Kobbie fits. If it turns out to genuinely be a case of the player not fitting into the system then it will be a shame, but it happens. Just make sure we have buy-back clause in case he does well elsewhere and we want him back at some point. Obviously it's a little different, but look at Gerard Pique and Cesc Fabregas - both left Barca as youngsters and came back to them later, in Piques case to become one of their most celebrated defenders of all time.
 
AndyMUFC said:
I am a bit concerned with how things are going for him, especially when he’s not got that long left on his deal. He was brilliant when he first came through, I don’t think people were wrong to hype him up at all.

Hopefully he gets more game time against the lesser teams, but at the minute we’ve got that problem of Bruno being in his position. We’re going to have to replace Bruno sooner rather than later though, so we need to be aware of this.
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Something clearly happened to him. He used to be a regular starter for United in his debut season and he started in the Euro finals for England. Sure he's only 20 and has plenty of time to develop, but his drop off has been shocking.

If you told me 12 months ago that he wouldn't even play in the opening match against Arsenal, I would probably laugh at you. Is it the second season syndrome? Who knows. He went from being one of our key players to being a squad player in just 12 months.
 
Honestly I would be sending Kobbie on loan for a year. His gametime will be limited this season with our lack of games and his incompatibility with Bruno, but he is too good to sit on the bench and should be getting regular minutes. Send him to a mid table PL team where he will be a starter, and in 12 months time he comes back ready to replace Bruno or at least to be part of the squad when we are (hopefully) back in Europe.
 
KingEric04 said:
Something clearly happened to him. He used to be a regular starter for United in his debut season and he started in the Euro finals for England. Sure he's only 20 and has plenty of time to develop, but his drop off has been shocking.

If you told me 12 months ago that he wouldn't even play in the opening match against Arsenal, I would probably laugh at you. Is it the second season syndrome? Who knows. He went from being one of our key players to being a squad player in just 12 months.
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Its the managerial and ownership churn above him that's affecting his game time imo. Moving from EtH to Amorim = different philosophies, formations, and tactics; each of which are obviously going to affect which player profiles get more minutes. I don't think Amorim has a clear idea on how to use Mainoo. He said last year he thought the player was more comfortable to roam in a more attacking role, but then this summer seemed to walk back those comments.
 
Walrus said:
Honestly I would be sending Kobbie on loan for a year. His gametime will be limited this season with our lack of games and his incompatibility with Bruno, but he is too good to sit on the bench and should be getting regular minutes. Send him to a mid table PL team where he will be a starter, and in 12 months time he comes back ready to replace Bruno or at least to be part of the squad when we are (hopefully) back in Europe.
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It would make sense in a lot of ways, but I don't thing we have enough bodies in midfield to let him go. He's in a bit of a tricky situation at the moment, but he needs to make the most of any opportunities he gets throughout the season.
 
Raoul said:
Its the managerial and ownership churn above him that's affecting his game time imo. Moving from EtH to Amorim = different philosophies, formations, and tactics; each of which are obviously going to affect which player profiles get more minutes. I don't think Amorim has a clear idea on how to use Mainoo. He said last year he thought the player was more comfortable to roam in a more attacking role, but then this summer seemed to walk back those comments.
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Even when he was playing, he looked like a shadow of his former self (his 23-24 version). He wasn't just our regular starter but one of our key players as well. The hype around him was pretty big and even Sir Alex himself praised him. He was only 19 when he was in the starting XI for England in the Euro finals.

Just a mere year later, he became a bench warmer and a squad player in the worst Man Utd squad of all time. It's not like our squad is stacked or on the level of our 99 or 2008 teams and you have countless world class midfield players as your competition. Mainoo's competition are mainly Ugarte and Casemiro with no legs.

I like Kobe and I think that he's a good lad but we have to ask ourselves what the hell happened to him? Sure, managers have changed and the tactics has changed but nobody expected this kind of drop off, let's be honest.
 
He needs to work on his pace and work rate. I feel he is a bit slow to what Amorim wants in a midfielder

He is only 20 so he has time to improve
 
Maybe he just hasn’t got it genetically to push his strength/speed/stamina any further than it already is? Everyone’s got a finite limit, maybe his is just surprisingly low
 
If Amorin doesn't figure out how to beat use him then in a few years we'll be facing him in the Champions league. The negative comments are incredibly ignorant.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Maybe he just hasn’t got it genetically to push his strength/speed/stamina any further than it already is? Everyone’s got a finite limit, maybe his is just surprisingly low
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I'm not sold on the physical side being an issue in most positions or set ups - it's more this setup specifically seems to demand so much from the CMs off the ball that we're linked with paying £100m for Baleba who is about half the player that Caicedo is technically, purely because he's dynamic and will break stuff up.

Mainoo has always been an attacking midfielder in my opinion, in most teams he'd be a 10 or an 8 but in our setup he's a fish out of water - you essentially need to be a winger to play 10, even bruno was moved back, and you need to be Kante to play the CM role to the level we need it done.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I'm not sold on the physical side being an issue in most positions or set ups - it's more this setup specifically seems to demand so much from the CMs off the ball that we're linked with paying £100m for Baleba who is about half the player that Caicedo is technically, purely because he's dynamic and will break stuff up.

Mainoo has always been an attacking midfielder in my opinion, in most teams he'd be a 10 or an 8 but in our setup he's a fish out of water - you essentially need to be a winger to play 10, even bruno was moved back, and you need to be Kante to play the CM role to the level we need it done.
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So where would he play in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?
 
T00lsh3d said:
So where would he play in a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3?
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442 do people really play? But I guess he could play as a 10 behind a 9 in my opinion.

433 is where he'd be great in my opinion. Think of a single DM with someone like Mainoo + a more all round B2B type, Mainoo much more advanced and taking the ball under pressure/linking stuff up and coming off the left slightly. Or put him in Bruno's old position in front of a pair.
 
I just think you're going to struggle at the highest level of the game if you're a CM with very little recovery pace, ability to cover ground or great passing ability. None of which Kobbie excels at.

I don't remember him being this slow and laboured when he first started breaking into the first team. Maybe that's just recency bias though
 
Baffles (and annoys) me that anyone could think selling Kobbie would be anything but a tragedy for the club. He's 20 years old FFS! He's already got us the winner in an FA Cup Final against prime City. He's a quality player. Comparing him to Scholes is stupid, as he's being compared to Peak Scholes, not the one at this age. At 20, Scholes had only just broken into the first team, and that in the League Cup first. He didn't become first choice until 22 or so, after Eric had left, and even then it wasn't in CM but further forward. At 19, he also had some growing pains. He couldn't last a full match due to his asthma that needed managing. When I first saw Scholes play live, he must have been 19... he was playing against Leeds. He only came on at half time*, he wasn't even a starter - and this was for the Reserves!

We need some patience with Kobbie. He's a kid, and a high quality one. He should outlast Amorim at United, no matter what the next season or three brings. We haven't had a midfielder that can manage repeated 5 or 10 yard passes since Carrick, and he is one of them. He guards the ball rather than giving it away cheaply. That is what a modern CM needs to be able to do, and we don't have any others at the moment. If he doesn't become a world-class footballer at United, he'll do it somewhere else.

*admittedly, he ran the show second half, looked fantastic... the point still stands!
 
Amorim seemingly doesn't want to use any of the lads from the Academy
 
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