We know the answer to this. We’ve seen this midfield before.
Kobbie Mainoo
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Lammens, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez, Shaw, Mainoo, Casemiro, Bruno, Amad, Mbeumo and Cunha in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid just always made sense to everyone other than Amorim and is clearly good enough for top 4/5 this season when you factor in Dalot, Maguire, Heaven, Yoro, Dorgu, Ugarte, Mount and Sesko as back up when needed.
Different to do it when asking everyone push up really high and press really high, compared to doing with with having the double pivot stay central.
Mount deserves to start over Mainoo
I think players heap massive pressure on themselves when they do stuff like this. Because now that the manager you didn't get on with has left, what's the excuse for not performing? Bit like Pogba when Jose left.
You're better off keeping shtum and working hard like Amad did when Ten Hag left.
Whitwell's view about him is nice speculation, but it's been reported by pretty much everyone that Mainoo is demanding a huge payrise. His agents or representatives aren't going to to that contrary to his wishes.
If his demands were reasonable there would have been a new contract in front of him ages ago.
What is dumb about it? He's liking a meme of somebody who doesn't work for the club anymore who he obviously had issues with. That chapter is over, doesn't matter. Means nothing.
I heard that he has turned down 2/3 offers.
Pogba in 18/19 was class when Jose left TBF. He backed it up. Issue was injuries after that.
But yeah Mainoo has to step up when he gets his chance now. I'm sure he will anyway, should be Mainoo competing with Ugarte for the spot next to Casemiro and behind Bruno
Its not without credit from Whitwell because he is speaking of the character of the player that he seems to know of.
Also Mainoo is 20, players at that age get influenced by bad company all the time. I don't think Mainoo himself would be doing that and is likely being advised wrongly.
Not to mention the obvious reason why he has not signed a contract extention being the fact the manager didn't even like him
In all fairness mate you have no idea about his character, none of us do.
yes, 6 compared to 4.
Debateable.
Think it really depends on how the midfield is organised. If we play Casemiro as the sole 6 with the other two as attacking 8s, we'll be in all sorts of trouble. A more compact midfield set up and we're less vulnerable.
Mount has more legs than Mainoo for example but replacing him with Mainoo adds an imbalance to the midfield. I think it's effectively two of Casemiro, Ugarte and Mainoo and then one of Bruno or Mount.
Here's a question, was this tried at all under ten hag in that last season of his? I'm almost certain this was our midfield for a while when we were our midfield was being ran through non stop.
Anyway, I'm skeptical mainoo will pull up any trees anytime soon and I wouldn't be surprised if he still gets sold by the summer as his contract is up soon.
He and his entourage have stirred a lot of shit the last few months and have certainly contributed to the negativity surrounding the club, let's see if he's worth it.
I disagree. The pressing and work rate of Mount is practically second to none in the team.
If you play a 6 and two 8's then Mount and Bruno would be my two.
There's a reason to play that way and it's to create overloads in the final third and press high. If you don't do that we'll revert back to zombie /counter attacking footy which no top club strives to do!
No it obviously means he must be tarred and feathered before getting banished to the u21's for the rest of the season until the summer window opens
Unless he's Kobbie's hairstylist. In which case, he'd know him better than his mum would.
So every top club asks their midfielders to vacate the midfield? Pretty sure they do not
Didn't he remove references to the club on his Instagram after Rubens comments?
OMG I forgot we had a fantastic RB in the squad, mazraoui is brilliant!
He put them back later.
It's pointless using ETH's midfield as a reference point because he always told his midfielders just to run up front. The problem wasn't players running through the midfield, it was the midfield not being present when we lost the ball because they had all bumrushed forwards. You could have Roy Keane and N'golo Kante in CM and it'd get run through if they were all hanging around the 10 and 9 spots when the ball was lost.
Mount or Mainoo, both are good in different ways. As always what will matter is our shape, on and off the ball, and the instructions given to players. More so than the individual selections. People always pointing to individuals tend to miss the point about how good teams are set up, and are usually just a convenient way to (a) scapegoat someone, and (b) highlight a panacea for making it all better (usually sign player X).
I think both press and a work hard but they both lack defensive qualities, particularly in defensive transitions and general defensive positioning in the middle and defensive thirds. I also think playing the two of them together in a midfield trio limits the potential of each other as they are too similar of a profile.
I think the ask of the 6 becomes too big and I don't think we have a player in our squad capable of being able to suit those two in midfield.
You have to acknowledge that the buck stops with Mainoo here. Whatever his agents have asked for, or turned down, he had to give the green light at every stage.
Nobody is asking him to copy Antonio Valencia and fire his agent to sign whatever the club puts in front of him, but, bad advice or not, his greed is why his contract is running out.
I reckon that midfield will set a record for getting dribbled past. That back line is slow too. That's a very good counter attacking team, not a team playing in the front foot.
If we're worried about positioning and preventing transitions, then Mainoo is far from the answer.
For a midfield, positioning & knowledge of how to play the position off the ball is far more important than pressing and work rate. Always has been, always will be. Yes you need work rate in and around there, but you need a balance of it. Mount and Bruno as a pair in front of Casemiro just doesn't work as they both want to run around, run up and chase and press and leave the middle exposed. It's not balanced, it will never be balanced. Has to be one of Mainoo or Ugarte next to Casemiro out of what we have to achieve balance, even if they aren't as good players right now as Mount or Bruno. You can get away with it against some shit teams like Amorim could get away with 343 with Amad at RWB and Bruno at CM against some shit teams, but most of the time no. Balance is everything in football.
With our current squad and starting Mainoo, I'm still not sure how we're going to defend. I assume it's got to be a mid to low block especially with Casemiro or Ugarte beside him. We can't press high with him in the team, because he can't and his midfield partners can't cover space well enough.
Obviously ten hags version was suicidal but
It's a valid observation that a double pivot was how we played from mourinho up until ten hags second season and the general consensus is that the team was neither progressive nor dynamic enough and didn't press like a modern team.
The double pivot has consistently worked for us post Fergie in the short term but it always seems to get found out and we struggle massively to play front foot football against top teams.
These formation changes people suggest are a zero sum game, you gain something by making the change but you equally lose something else.
Bottom line though is that It's really about personnel and I don't think we have the right profiles to play any particular formation well no matter how anyone wants to paint it as 'it's the obvious thing to play'.
We were halfway to making squad suitable for a 3atb formation and we've suddenly made a U turn either cuase of fan pressure, results, or lack of money. We have no left winger. We have only Shaw as a left back. We still have a horrible midfield and we are overloaded on cbs, 10s and right wingers now. Oh and we still only have a single no 9 who is still learning his trade! It's an utter shambles!
Ultimately we need new midfielders but I just don't see a midfield trio of Casemiro, Bruno and Mount being optimal. He has his flaws but I think Mainoo generally has better defensive discipline than the other two, but that is also due to the other two being better and more suited to playing higher up the pitch. It's not pretty but a Casemiro/Ugarte base is likely more solid but comes with other issues.
so true, but let's attack Kobbie. People love to manufacture bullshit and push made up shit to make a player seem like a dickhead when ALL of the evidence and reports say otherwise."Oh but he asked for 200k at the start of negotiations"... So what? It's the start of negotiations, with a club who was giving that out to everyone. Who gives a feck. It means nothing for character or professionalism or anything.
"Oh but he liked a post about the manager who refused to play him getting sacked".... So what? That's not his manager anymore. Just some guy who didn't let him play football basically and barred him from going out on loan when he asked to do so.
"Oh but he dresses like this and wears chains and has these tattoos and whatever"... Not Mainoo, but the same shit with previous players. All pointless shit that mean nothing about a players character, professionalism, or anything else about how he is as a footballer or person that people will attack and use to shit the specific player. They should find something interesting to talk about rather than push hate for no reason.
Not sure where you are getting the opinion on Mainoo's defensive discipline? Casemiro or Ugarte most certainly can not be the no 6 or base of a midfield. They are both ball winning 8s and every time they play 6, they get found our because they're not fast enough and their passing isn't good enough.
Bury your head in the sand, Ruben was right when he said some of these kids are too entitled.
"Oh but he asked for 200k at the start of negotiations"... So what? It's the start of negotiations, with a club who was giving that out to everyone. Who gives a feck. It means nothing for character or professionalism or anything.
"Oh but he liked a post about the manager who refused to play him getting sacked".... So what? That's not his manager anymore. Just some guy who didn't let him play football basically and barred him from going out on loan when he asked to do so.
"Oh but he dresses like this and wears chains and has these tattoos and whatever"... Not Mainoo, but the same shit with previous players. All pointless shit that mean nothing about a players character, professionalism, or anything else about how he is as a footballer or person that people will attack and use to shit the specific player. They should find something interesting to talk about rather than push hate for no reason.
I posted the Chido post to show how even someone who got publicly slated by Amorim at least had the class to thank him etc.
This guy seems another with a poor attitude just like that cnut Garnacho who we rightly fecked off. If he's not careful he'll be gone too.
A different reaction for someone who believed in him?? Absolutely shocking stuff
How do you know he hasn’t just thanked him in person?
He's allowed to think Amorim is a knob. He can tell his mates in private conversations. But I really hate this snide habit footballers have of liking negative shit on social media. It's unprofessional and there's no need