Kobbie Mainoo

[Ash_G]

I'm not a fan of any of the stuff family/friends etc have been doing (I don't follow it) for any player, although I think that's just the modern world we live in now. I also agree with the general sentiment that Mainoo needs to add more to his game but I also genuinely think that he's an example of why Amorin had to go.

I didn't have the privilege of watching the likes of Scholes break into the team but I'd be surprised (and think he himself has said) if he had been having a bigger impact at his age than Mainoo has showed. Now that's not to say he is or will be as good as Scholes but the point is he has the potential to be a big talent but Amorin showed no willingness to be flexible to give him reasonable game time and I think it's fair to infer that if we had another midfield prospect who was better than Mainoo he'd have done the same which just isn't a logical way of approaching things and can't be good for us as a club. As a young player in particular it's hard to come in cold and make an impact. Look at Heaven, he had some shaky times but overtime got his confidence back and has been very good recently.

Hopefully this is a chance for Mainoo to start fresh as we could really use him developing into a good player. He needs to do his part but I think finding a way to give Mainoo time in a 433 rather than say continue to play Dorgu or Dalot as an ineffectual LWB is worth a real try.

 

[DevilRed]

Play a midfield 3 to try to fit in Mainoo? What a solid plan. Build a team around the great Kobbie Mainoo. A few good games for England once (before Spains midfield running rings around him and getting hooked) and a couple of good goals a few years ago. Let the legs of Casemiro and Bruno do the donkey work to cover his ambling pace and Kobbie will flourish!

If we go 3 in CM I'd rather see Ugarte or Mount. Unless the next guy is a club puppet then this is what will happen.

Nobody said we were building a team around him?

He played his best football in a midfield 3. Same with Bruno.

In fact, I can't even name you another prem club that plays 2 in midfield.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Needs binning off and I was (still am to a extent) a big fan of him.

On a wider point, and for all his faults, Rashford contributed far more in his time.

Hopefully Mainoo is the last young player to waste his potential.

 

[bosnian_red]

Needs binning off and I was (still am to a extent) a big fan of him.

On a wider point, and for all his faults, Rashford contributed far more in his time.

Hopefully Mainoo is the last young player to waste his potential.

How has he wasted his potential? By being benched by the manager? What's he done?

 

[hellhunter]

Needs binning off and I was (still am to a extent) a big fan of him.

On a wider point, and for all his faults, Rashford contributed far more in his time.

Hopefully Mainoo is the last young player to waste his potential.

A player contributing more when his United stint is more than twice as long is hardly a stick to beat Mainoo with

 

[bosnian_red]

Play a midfield 3 to try to fit in Mainoo? What a solid plan. Build a team around the great Kobbie Mainoo. A few good games for England once (before Spains midfield running rings around him and getting hooked) and a couple of good goals a few years ago. Let the legs of Casemiro and Bruno do the donkey work to cover his ambling pace and Kobbie will flourish!

If we go 3 in CM I'd rather see Ugarte or Mount. Unless the next guy is a club puppet then this is what will happen.

It's not building around Mainoo. It's simply getting balance in the team by adding a midfielder alongside Bruno and Casemiro.

Mount is a 10, it is illogical to play 2 10's together ahead of Casemiro as a lone 6. That's bad balance because of the nature of how the players play. It's not about work rate, it very rarely is. It's about positioning and the natural instincts of how players try to play the role and what the manager asks if them. Mainoo plays the deeper role naturally and will hold his position far better than Mount or Bruno, because he doesn't get the urge to charge out of position and press all the time.

Ugarte vs Mainoo, i agree that it's not clear cut. Depends on opponent and what our game plan is. But right away Mainoo is getting far more football as a result and has a fair chance to prove himself. When we sign more midfielders, we are also in Europe as well, so again, will get the game time that he needs to develop and prove himself. Maybe he stays at squad player level, maybe he develops into a starter. Being frozen on the bench does nothing for him and it is because of a ridiculously unbalanced system that shoves players out of position all around the pitch.

 

[beck7]

It's not building around Mainoo. It's simply getting balance in the team by adding a midfielder alongside Bruno and Casemiro.

Mount is a 10, it is illogical to play 2 10's together ahead of Casemiro as a lone 6. That's bad balance because of the nature of how the players play. It's not about work rate, it very rarely is. It's about positioning and the natural instincts of how players try to play the role and what the manager asks if them. Mainoo plays the deeper role naturally and will hold his position far better than Mount or Bruno, because he doesn't get the urge to charge out of position and press all the time.

Ugarte vs Mainoo, i agree that it's not clear cut. Depends on opponent and what our game plan is. But right away Mainoo is getting far more football as a result and has a fair chance to prove himself. When we sign more midfielders, we are also in Europe as well, so again, will get the game time that he needs to develop and prove himself. Maybe he stays at squad player level, maybe he develops into a starter. Being frozen on the bench does nothing for him and it is because of a ridiculously unbalanced system that shoves players out of position all around the pitch.

Can you talk a bit more about his strengths given the weaknesses and why you would think he would be a good CM?

 

[bosnian_red]

Can you talk a bit more about his strengths given the weaknesses and why you would think he would be a good CM?

Mainoo? He's a CM. That's the base requirement. Mount isn't a CM, Bruno isn't a CM (but is more of one than Mount is). How they hold their position off the ball, where they drift, where they look to cover space vs how they react when an opposing player has the ball. If you're in a double pivot, it's far more about keeping the space closed relative to your partner than it is about you getting stuck in, sprinting around pressing or whatever. If you do that in a 2, you are abandoning your space and making it easy for the opposition to find gaps in midfield and making it harder for your partner (sound familiar?).

In a midfield 3 you can get away with some positional slackness, and I wouldn't fully write Mount off there as that failure under Ten Hag was because Ten Hags plan was Bruno and Mount press way up and have Casemiro sweep behind. Horrible plan as that's way too much space for the guy at this stage of his career. If Ole comes in and tells Mount or Bruno in the deeper role to just sit and cover the space with Casemiro rather than be so adventurous with their positioning and pressing, it'll go better right off the bat. But their instinct even still is to press, chase, show their energy and that honestly is not always the best thing for a midfielder. Quite often isn't in fact.

 

[The Hilton]

Yes he is better higher up the pitch, but that doesn't need to be as a 10. Ideally you would have a midfield that balances qualities. The playmaker type, who recycles possession well, and is good with the ball at their feet, can be either a 6 or an 8. Just like your ball winning midfielder can be the 6 or the 8. It is just a question of where you want to do it, and how the team plays. Pressing and winning back possession is also a team responsibility, not just on individuals. For me, Casemiro playing as the deepest player, with Mainoo slightly in front of him, and Bruno or Mount alongside, balances everything you need in a midfield. There are likely players who are better in each position, but it's not about individuals, it's about the cohesive qualities of the players you have. Mainoo playing as an 8 is, for me, his ideal role. He just needs a lot more minutes in that role. He has already played it to a very high level. It also assumes that without the ball your 10 drops into the central positions to form a three, which gives you solidity, and with the ball is willing to come deep to link up with the 6 and 8 to play triangles through the middle. In my mind 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 are two very different formations. In a 4-2-3-1 you are playing with two pivots, with your 10 sitting in the hole. This puts a lot on those two deeper lying players in terms of their qualities. In a 4-3-3 you'd expect the three to press and progress the ball as a unit, with your 6 sitting as a sort of anchor, and the 10 having more attacking license.

Arsenal just beat Villa 4-1 with a midfield of Zubimendi, Merino and Odegaard. There is very little steel in that midfield, and not a ton of athleticism either. Yet is worked cohesively as a unit, and dominated the play. Usually they would have Rice in the mix, who brings a lot of everything to the game, but the point is that a midfield trio of Casemiro, Mainoo and Bruno should be able to dominate 80% of the PL teams, and be very competitive with the other 20%, if they play cohesively and the shape and instructions are correct. People are way too focused on individuals and their qualities, and not enough on the system and approach. Too often United have been a team of individuals, with the solution always being to replace the individuals when things aren't going well and expect better results. This results in a lot of money spent with little to show for it. Players then leave and look better elsewhere because they play in a cohesive system that minimizes their deficiencies and maximizes the team's ability to perform as a group.

We will continue to covet high priced midfielders, and then slag them off later, until we develop an approach that emphasizes the team rather than the individual. I'll give you an example....I think Bruno is our most effective individual player. His stats constantly back this up. He can see a pass, and is willing to take a risk, that very few players are willing to do. This often results in chances created. But having Bruno in the team means, in my opinion, that you have to be set up to be defensively very solid, and transition rapidly. Why? because Bruno also turns the ball over, a lot. This affects the momentum of the game. He goes for that low percentage, defence splitting ball a lot, and while this leads to goals, it also leads to freuent turnovers. So you have to be prepared to defend when that happens. You also have to be prepared to make constant runs in behind to make the most of his high risk strategy,

If you want to dominate possession, probe for openings, press in a controlled manner, then you select Mount over Bruno. You don't get the hollywood pass, or youtube moment of a sensational defence splitting pass, but you do get a hardworking, defensively responsible player, who treats the ball with care and has an effective attacking instinct. For me it is the epitome of the debate of systems over individuals. The best midfield doesn't necessarily include the best player. And if it does, it is because we are playing a system that maximizes his qualities and minimizes his deficiencies. But again, that would be system over individuals triumphing again. The problem is, we want to play a player like Bruno as the heartbeat of the team, we want him to do all the high risk, sensational stuff, but we also want him to play that careful, considered responsible football to recycle possession. That's having your cake an eating it. By definition only 10-30% of those high risk passes ever comes off. So when he does try it and it fails, we can't all be committed upfield and leave ourselves exposed to the counter attack. Something which has constantly happened. Amorim using him as one of the two CMs was just mental.

Re Kobbie liking that Instagram post. It was childish and immature. The sort of thing a 20 year old does. He should be quietly disciplined and we move on.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you think Mainoo brings to the midfield then. He doesn't recycle possession well, he isn't a playmaker, he turns over the ball an awful lot, he's positionally poor, he rarely progresses the ball, he doesn't create much, and he doesn't get very involved defensively. You say Mainoo has played as an 8 to a very high level, can you explain when that was?

A midfield of Casemiro, Mainoo, and Bruno will be run through like butter by most other teams, with Mainoo being the weakest link by a distance.

 

[Drainy]

Bet he's regretting letting his brother pull that stunt now

 

[Hoof the ball]

 

[lex talionis]

Last I checked we were ahead of all these teams in the league table and you are just making my point we would continue to have these kind of results because we are simply not as good you want to believe .

These are results of a Top 8 squad where on a good day they Can get results against better opponents while on shocking days we have to suffer through results Like Everton , Wolves.

Unless we add more talent we would continue to have these discussions irrespective of who the manager is .

I can’t be sure now of the original point we were debating but if it was something to the effect that neither the players nor Amorim were good enough to have us challenge for the PL title I of course agree with that. But what I’m trying to say is that manager inflicted tactics on the squad that didn’t suit their abilities. One possible reply is to replace all the players. Fine, but that’s not realistic. What was more realistic is for the manager to adapt his tactics to the circumstances at hand. A great example is 10–man Everton…Amorim had us daftly playing with a back three even though Everton were a man down. Two recent matches over clubs we should have pounded we dropped four points to.

I’ll concede that with this squad our ceiling is third place. With this squad that we’re in sixth place is criminal.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

A player contributing more when his United stint is more than twice as long is hardly a stick to beat Mainoo with

There's people on here talking as if Mainoo has been amazing since he's made his debut and is our best academy player of the last 20/30 years.

Ultimately, he could have been a club legend but his attitude (like Rashford) is letting him down.

On a wider point, people are also only been more forgiving towards Kobbie because of their dislike/hatred over the manager.

 

[Sandikan]

There's people on here talking as if Mainoo has been amazing since he's made his debut and is our best academy player of the last 20/30 years.

Ultimately, he could have been a club legend but his attitude (like Rashford) is letting him down.

On a wider point, people are also only been more forgiving towards Kobbie because of their dislike/hatred over the manager.

How has his attitude let him down out of interest?
His family making little comments aside, what has Mainoo himself done?

 

[Rolaholic]

Guy's a genius, started training a week ago because not only did he know Amorim would have another one of his meltdowns several days later, but that this time he'd get himself fired. Or, alternatively, a time traveler. Either way, very impressive.

 

[horsechoker]

 

[Gee Male]

I don't see it with Kobbie unfortunately. His main weakness is his lack of agility - he reacts and turns so slowly that a break from the opposition is past him before he can do anything, and he's not quick enough to get back into the game at that point, completely out of it. It's a huge issue for him and a significant contribution to that "donut" feel of our midfield when he's included.

I don't think its something that can be easily coached either, at least not to make a significant difference at the top end of the game.

 

[Cassidy]

Do you have any evidence of that? What was said? And who all said it?

Evidence of Amorim saying Mainoo was not involved and is a quiet shy boy? Yes look up the press conference after the tshirt incident

 

[Cassidy]

Do you have any evidence of that? What was said? And who all said it?

Do you have evidence of anyone inside the club saying he is a problem? Including the manager who has called out the other players mentioned?

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Mr Bean, funny.

Hi Rio do you want picking up in the morning pal

 

[Kostov]

What’s with perfect human beings and United fans constant attacks on Mainoo or any other young player that falls out with the best men manager Amorim? Garnacho has been labeled as Ravel Morrison on here, Mainoo is Joey Barton because he liked social media posts?

It’s ridiculous and very short sighted. The same set of fans got on Amad’s back when ETH played Antony and never gave him a proper chance. He almost succeeded in loosing Amad for this club. He surely did manage to waste Carreras for the big benefit of loaning Regillon from Spurs. I am sure yoy same lot also found attitude issues back them too.

 

[JustAGuest]

What’s with perfect human beings and United fans constant attacks on Mainoo or any other young player that falls out with the best men manager Amorim? Garnacho has been labeled as Ravel Morrison on here, Mainoo is Joey Barton because he liked social media posts?

It’s ridiculous and very short sighted. The same set of fans got on Amad’s back when ETH played Antony and never gave him a proper chance. He almost succeeded in loosing Amad for this club. He surely did manage to waste Carreras for the big benefit of loaning Regillon from Spurs. I am sure yoy same lot also found attitude issues back them too.

Now you are making a strawman argument.

Will say that Garnacho was rightly sold due to his attitude (and Greenwood too if you want an actual example).

 

[Rolaholic]

Do you have evidence of anyone inside the club saying he is a problem? Including the manager who has called out the other players mentioned?

What’s with perfect human beings and United fans constant attacks on Mainoo or any other young player that falls out with the best men manager Amorim? Garnacho has been labeled as Ravel Morrison on here, Mainoo is Joey Barton because he liked social media posts?

It’s ridiculous and very short sighted. The same set of fans got on Amad’s back when ETH played Antony and never gave him a proper chance. He almost succeeded in loosing Amad for this club. He surely did manage to waste Carreras for the big benefit of loaning Regillon from Spurs. I am sure yoy same lot also found attitude issues back them too.

20 year olds are held to higher standards and afforded much less grace than the manager these days for many.

On the same note, we'll also always expect them to die for the badge for us fans no matter what despite being willing and ready to turn on them and abuse their families at any instance of deviating from what us perfect humans would do in situations that we've never been apart of

Then in a few years we'll get threads asking 'why do the best young talents never choose Uniteds academy anymore and only Chelseas, Arsenals, Citys and Liverpools?'

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

Not only that, he is on social media liking memes making fun of Amorim. I mean we all wanted to get rid of Amorim, but he has to be a professional, he did not have to thank him if they were not on good terms, but he did not have to go around on social media acting unprofessional.

Agree. I knew he would do something like this. One of you posted after the event “please no players start liking shit on SM”. So predictable now. Poor form.

 

[DevilRed]

You could see someone like Ole coming in and completely unlocking this kids potential annd confidence again.

 

[afrocentricity]

 

[G-manc]

Play a midfield 3 like a proper club and this man will thrive.

Great, can’t wait see the same midfield that got Ten Haag sacked.

 

[Wezzaldo]

I disagree. The pressing and work rate of Mount is practically second to none in the team.

If you play a 6 and two 8's then Mount and Bruno would be my two.

Agree. A team of
Lammens
Dalot MDL. Licha. Shaw
Cas
Bruno. Mount
Bryan. Cunha
Sesko

Would allow us to really press aggressively up the pitch.

Drama is going to be what happens with Amad, Yoro and Heaven more than anything else.

 

[SirScholes]

Needs binning off and I was (still am to a extent) a big fan of him.

On a wider point, and for all his faults, Rashford contributed far more in his time.

Hopefully Mainoo is the last young player to waste his potential.

What even is this post
I don’t think he’s as good as people think
But Christ he’s been a first teamer 2 minutes

Surely a wind up post

 

[SirScholes]

Great, can’t wait see the same midfield that got Ten Haag sacked.

Is it possible that ten hags tactics is what got him sacked
And signing players like Hojlund and Antony ?

 

[NoLogo]

 

[Kayla40TS]

Agree. A team of
Lammens
Dalot MDL. Licha. Shaw
Cas
Bruno. Mount
Bryan. Cunha
Sesko

Would allow us to really press aggressively up the pitch.

Drama is going to be what happens with Amad, Yoro and Heaven more than anything else.

That set up would leave us absolutely gaping to any counterattack. This is prime ETH invisible midfield ball.

 

[Wezzaldo]

That set up would leave us absolutely gaping to any counterattack. This is prime ETH invisible midfield ball.

We weren’t aggressive with our back line hence the gaps. Think it would be different with a higher line. Anyway wrong thread for tactical discussion

 

[Cutch]

Great, can’t wait see the same midfield that got Ten Haag sacked.

Ten Hag played Amrabat instead of Carreras, signed Anthony for 90m, played Mazraoui as a 10 and Omari Forson instead of Amad Diallo. He had a lot more problems than the 3 he lined up with in midfield.

 

[G-manc]

Ten Hag played Amrabat instead of Carreras, signed Anthony for 90m, played Mazraoui as a 10 and Omad Forson instead of Amad Diallo. He had a lot more problems than the 3 he lined up with in midfield.

I doubt he instructed them to part like the Red Sea.

 

[Godfather]

Play a midfield 3 like a proper club and this man will thrive.

Doubt it. Sorry but I just dont see it with him. He is a very good dribbler, good close control and pretty strong. But his total lack of athleticism, pace and lungs as well as his lack of positional discipline and awareness will also hinder him in a midfield 3. His passing range isn't great either

 

[Rolaholic]

Very much a nasty growing trend and it's a genuine disgrace

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Very much a nasty growing trend and it's a genuine disgrace

Honestly think players shouldn’t be online as much for their own protection as anything else.

Any other job, if being online affected your performance, you’d be pulled up on it. They maybe kids but they are also professionals getting paid for a job. They shouldn’t have to put up with that abuse, but the world ain’t changing anytime soon, so they are better off being not online.

 

[Lash]

Very much a nasty growing trend and it's a genuine disgrace

Generally speaking, football Twitter/Instagram/Facebook is full of bots and bot like people. Outrageous statements get traction, so it's a race to the bottom.

It's unfortunately the way people "build a brand" with public profiles, but I would just swerve the public profile if I were them.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Agree. A team of
Lammens
Dalot MDL. Licha. Shaw
Cas
Bruno. Mount
Bryan. Cunha
Sesko

Would allow us to really press aggressively up the pitch.

Drama is going to be what happens with Amad, Yoro and Heaven more than anything else.

Yoro & Heaven will be first choice subs and De Ligt and Martinez have shown they get injured a lot.

In this example formation, Amad, Mbeumo, Cunha & Sesko should all be treated the same, most in form 3 play.