Read his lawyers findings and the evidence against to see why it fell apart.
Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I will. I'm still digesting this entire situation tbh.
Thats the best way. No one was in the room but I can see why it was easy to cast doubt on her which I guess is a lawyers job.
I understood your point it's just that you can't say that this case was dropped because of celebrity or power because statistically it ended like the vast majority of cases end. If Kobe weren't rich or famous you probably wouldn't have had a civil court settlement. Probably nothing would have happened there if he was just some random guy with no money.
Here’s his legacy.
You might be right but I'm not so sure. If the victim brought forward charges towards me, for example, with the graphic doctor report as well as some form of admission from me, and I didn't have the resources to fight it like Kobe did, I'd be in jail, surely?
Regardless, conviction rate is quite low compared to other crimes and as such, as you infer, the outcome might have been the same, minus remuneration.
Not surely no, why would you think that? A lot more rapists and a smidge on innocent people would be convicted of rape charges if that were the case.
It's a bit offensive to accuse him of littering, Moby.
I wonder what the incidence is of celebrity rape conviction compared to general population rape conviction is.
If a regression analysis was run trying to determine the predictive variables towards rape conviction, would fame, wealth or celebrity be strong negative predictors, even in the face of an unacceptably low general conviction rate? I don't know. My assumption would be yes but I might be mistaken.
I'm sorry but if this isn't the right time to bring something as terrible as that up, then when is? It's not like his family members or friends are on Redcafe, if they were I would've made my point differently. They're not.
Furthermore, it's not like this guy was someone who invented a vaccine or was a big philanthropist but also committed a monstrous crime and people are wrestling with his legacy. He was good at putting a ball into a basket. There's no need to hero worship him and try to brush acts such as littering under the rug.
Well I'm sorry that you're sorry but I'm sorry but when did this become the opposite of a democracy, whatever that is, and the acts of an individual were related to what they were like as an individual. So he ran a dodgy fly tipping business? Who hasn't?!
Depends on the country as well and if you've got a judge or jury deciding the guilt. Always worse to be a celebrity if you're a frequent offender because the attention could possibly bring forward more witnesses and older cases.
Indeed. I've been reading a bit about the case and I really can't see what people in this thread have been on.
The apology was written the accuser's attorneys and offered in exchange for dropping the charges. Majority of people on this thread have been relying on a particular sentence from the apology when the whole statement turns to have been one that Kobe was required to issue in exchange for the charges to be dropped. Also, prosecutor also dismissed a witness (sexual assault expert) without telling the defense because he contradicted their evidence. The defence also had a witness (one of her friends apparently) that was going to testify that she previously plotted to have sex with then falsely accuse Eminem.
Not only USA. It’s basically everywhere.
True, and one would imagine that frequency would (and should) be a strong predictor.
Very true.
Hmmmmm. That’s easy to say, and I fully support however she feels about the encounter.
I’ll also say that I’ve woke up with a woman before that’s said “I wasn’t really ok with how last night went and it can’t happen again”.
Entirely different in that we dated for 3-4 months, she said this after a boozy/druggy moment half way through our time together. She also had the emotional EQ to say “It wasn’t your fault but I don’t like who I was and how I acted last night”.
Male and Female sexual dynamics are often complicated. I can’t even imagine how much they’d have shifted if I was a 24 year old millionaire and we had literally just met.
I know to my absolute core that there was absolute desire and consent... but waking up with regret and a conversation is all kinds of yuk.
Handling all of that with global media involved must have been almost impossible. For both of them. Everything would be amplified.
That might be comparable if she had withdrawn her consent while you were fecking. You can't withdraw consent retroactively, though.
100% not comparing. Just adding some noise in there.
For what it’s worth... I do think he assaulted her.
I found this video of him as a 17 year old back in '96 giving a speech to an elementary school class. I'm simply astounded and amazed by the level of maturity and intellect he possessed at such a young age: so articulately spoken and confident in his poise.
He tells the class of his experiences as a child growing up in Italy (which I was unaware of) and how it moulded him as a person and a human being. He also spoke of the transition and difficulty he faced adapting to the American culture when he returned as he simply didn't fit in. His alienation and lack of friends when he returned inadvertently helped give him that hunger and desire to focus 100% on basketball and to be the best he could be. With the way he spoke in this video, you can just tell that he would have been successful in whatever field he pursued. He was just simply cut from a different cloth to everyone else.
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Whooo... she killed it
Fair enough. This feels ages ago now -I had a 9-10 day break from the site- and I vaguely remember his posts were irking me, mainly about how ardent he was being, despite only having read a one line fact on here five minutes beforehand.
Anyway, fair enough on calling it out, I quite likely was being patronising. Just wanted to reply so you didn't think I went hiding if a post is challenged.
I mean, that's not what happened, I read a large article on the case, and then the court docs, but I also think you're a good poster so I don't really care haha.
OK fair enough. If so, that's way more than I did.
Yeah to be fair I got too worked up in this thread and normally wouldn’t have involved myself in something that had nothing to do with me, and now having had some time away I’m actually confused as to why I got so heated in this thread. Hope we’re good.
Get a room you two (but keep it consensual).
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general public. Off topic but for example the way Megan Markle has been treated by the British press. It’s a situation which perfectly epitomises the racial disparity as we have a white women in an almost identical situation.
While I think it’s important to always be aware of both implicit bias and overarching racist narratives, the person in the video has completely ignored the fact that sexual assault victims are overwhelmingly ignored, they rarely get justice and are often silenced. In this instance it was a 19 year old female who came forward about being sexually assaulted by Kobe Bryant. She had to face character assassinations from both Bryant’s defense team and the media. The fact that she took an anti-psychotic drug to treat her mental condition was used as a weapon against her, the fact that she’d been suicidal in the past was used against her. She suffered death threats and hate mail. On top of all that, her identity and address was leaked several times. This is how sexual assault victims are treated. Just look at this thread, I have no problem with people who have looked at the evidence and think there’s not enough to damn Kobe. But several posters joined the discussion without taking 5 minutes to look up the facts, they labelled her a gold digger, an attention seeking schemer etc. This is often how men react to women coming my forward with sexual assault allegations. If you go ahead and rape someone, you are very, very likely to face no punishment, that’s the world we live in. So while I respect what she said (and she is absolutely right) she’s not talked about the awful treatment that sexual assault victims often face. It’s very important to understand the racial issues and the discrimination involved in cases like these, it’s also very important to acknowledge that sexual assault victims are often dismissed, slandered and accused of having nefarious motives. Often these victims are women and the perpetrators are men, sexism also plays a very large role in how these cases are perceived. After the civil case was settled, he issued his apology and paid her a large sum. He then went on to sign a contract worth $136 million. His death, along with the others, was a tragedy. It’s telling though that a journalist who brought up the allegation after his death was suspended. The silencing of sexual assault victims (often women), is a serious problem.
I agree with her overarching point about the narratives that are created about minorities. Both with the media and the
general public. Off topic but for example the way Megan Markle has been treated by the British press. It’s a situation which perfectly epitomises the racial disparity as we have a white women in an almost identical situation.
While I think it’s important to always be aware of both implicit bias and overarching racist narratives, the person in the video has completely ignored the fact that sexual assault victims are overwhelmingly ignored, they rarely get justice and are often silenced. In this instance it was a 19 year old female who came forward about being sexually assaulted by Kobe Bryant. She had to face character assassinations from both Bryant’s defense team and the media. The fact that she took an anti-psychotic drug to treat her mental condition was used as a weapon against her, the fact that she’d been suicidal in the past was used against her. She suffered death threats and hate mail. On top of all that, her identity and address was leaked several times. This is how sexual assault victims are treated. Just look at this thread, I have no problem with people who have looked at the evidence and think there’s not enough to damn Kobe. But several posters joined the discussion without taking 5 minutes to look up the facts, they labelled her a gold digger, an attention seeking schemer etc. This is often how men react to women coming my forward with sexual assault allegations. If you go ahead and rape someone, you are very, very likely to face no punishment, that’s the world we live in. So while I respect what she said (and she is absolutely right) she’s not talked about the awful treatment that sexual assault victims often face. It’s very important to understand the racial issues and the discrimination involved in cases like these, it’s also very important to acknowledge that sexual assault victims are often dismissed, slandered and accused of having nefarious motives. Often these victims are women and the perpetrators are men, sexism also plays a very large role in how these cases are perceived. After the civil case was settled, he issued his apology and paid her a large sum. He then went on to sign a contract worth $136 million. His death, along with the others, was a tragedy. It’s telling though that a journalist who brought up the allegation after his death was suspended. The silencing of sexual assault victims (often women), is a serious problem.
I didn’t do anything nefarious to @Jippy , but I can understand how he thinks he didn’t consent to the shower room incident.
I'm on prescription strength laxatives ahead of my colonoscopy this afternoon, so don't think anyone wants to get that close to me right now tbh.
I agree with what you are saying
I was surprised to see you post this, as it’s blatantly untrue. The posts were deleted from the RIP thread, and the vast majority of members took issue with people bringing up the allegations in that thread. Members were then banned from mentioning the allegations in that thread. You only have to look at the first page of this thread to see that. I don’t know if this was a honest mistake or a deliberate distortion of what happened. Not that it really matters, I’m much more interested in the next comment.
I strongly disagree with sentiment, even in a context vacuum I’d think it was wrong, and in regards to the discussion regarding Kobe and the allegation I think it’s dangerous. It’s also a misrepresentation of what the debate surrounding Kobe was about. It wasn’t people being ‘mean’ to him because of some superficial agenda. Someone bringing up the allegation isn’t them being unkind, it’s important that it is discussed and highlighted because it’s part of a massive issue that in general is always swept under the carpet.To limit conversation to platitudes isn’t the way forward, and while I understand why It might make people who are fans or supporters of whichever celebrity is in the crosshairs uncomfortable, it’s still a discussion that desperately needs to be had.
This thread is the most depressing thread for me on this forum. I’ve already gone over things like the vast statistical unlikelihood of a rape victim ever getting justice. The way that character assassination comes in to play with the victims, so this next part isn’t an empirical argument but an emotional one as to why I can’t stand the many defensive stances in this thread (not that a reason is needed).
My (foster) sister was raped when she was 12, by a man who lived with her foster carers. She was let down by the various systems and the personnel who work within them, and society in general I guess. Although it was many years ago, this event has hugely shaped her life and to this day she is terrified of ever running into him again. To the point of panic attacks when she thought she’d seen him. I’ve always wanted her to take this case forward, as she deserves justice, and some form of closure. There’s plenty of evidence too. She is adamant though that she never will, for fear that, in her own words, everyone will think she’s a ‘slag’ or that she’s a liar. I’d love to be able to tell her otherwise, but this thread is a perfect microcosm of the outside word. She probably wouldn’t be believed by many people, because even in a case like this one where he admitted that he understood why she felt that she was raped and paid her millions, there’s a vast amount of people who still refuse to believe the victim. Edit: just to clarify why I’m sharing this personal story, it’s not because i think it has any bearing on the Kobe story or his innocence/guilt, but rather to show part of why I think allegations like these should be discussed and not hidden. It’s not coming from a place of hatred or to not be nice, but in the hope of change. Even in this thread there’s plenty of ‘why?’ When it came to discussing this allegation. Why are you discussing it now? Why does it matter? why do you hate Kobe? And they miss the point. There’s nothing really wrong with your post, but it’s a useful jumping off point to argue against the why aspect. This thread has plenty of people equating taking about Kobe’s allegation to being insulting or behaving inappropriately, it’s just another form of censorship.
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It's only been two months lads, this is neither the time nor place for these discussions.
Boosie's interviews are legendary. Never minces his words. He became a meme from this one:
"Come on, maaane", it has me dying every time.
I don't want to limit anything, and I definitely agree with the bolded part - but there was more than a decade to have this discussion, and we'll have until eternity to discuss it further right now. The least people can do is not bring it up for a few days when his relatives and fans are mourning. There's a time and a place for everything. Fair enough if you disagree with that.
Boosie's interviews are legendary. Never minces his words. He became a meme from this one:
"Come on, maaane", it has me dying every time.
The man is absolute quality. Not seen that interview in full before so thanks.
That “maaaane” hits differently when he says it.
No problem bro, his expressions and gestures really add to what he's trying to say, it's amazing to watch, the dude is extremely funny without even trying.
The man is absolute quality. Not seen that interview in full before so thanks.
That “maaaane” hits differently when he says it.
His relatives aren't reading redcafe. His fans on here are just people who liked him because he was good at basketball. I don't think its necessary to censor an account of his crimes because they might be annoyed.