Well Kobe apparently cheated on many occasions and I don't see anyone knocking him for that on here, and that's the appropriate comparison no?
Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?
- Thread starter Eboue
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
This article doesn’t prove anything if I’m being honest. I’ll catch flak here for saying this but maybe it’s not impossible that a woman would “clout chase” as you say with rape allegations. It mentioned she’s got mental issues and tried to commit suicide twice. The only thing you can be sure of is that the man was a serial cheater, which is not a surprise with all star celebrities.
Sorry but can you please take your discussion on CR7 to the appropriate thread?
What clear and decisive evidence is there going to be in a rape case? That wasn't present in this case
Well if you United fans threw Giggs of a pedestal for fecking his sister in law, what do you think the reaction would be if he was a convicted rapist?
Why are you hounding people to choose one thing or another? Each person is entitled to their view about the player.
Please include the specifics of Cristiano's hypothetical untimely end in your OP too, so we can address the matter with the seriousness it deserves.
There’s no hounding - just asking the question.
There’s literally a thread where we can discuss Kobe’s rape case but somehow we’re oppressing and censoring this discussion. 
In terms of his legacy, as someone who isn't a basketball fan the fact that he was very credibly accused of rape was one of the first things that came to mind yesterday. After all, his non-confession apology to the victim is quite famous and the fact of the rape accusation itself has had enough cultural currency to be repeatedly brought up in various forms over the years. It's certainly a large part of how many will remember him.
Kobe himself accepted that the woman genuinely believed she had been raped, accepted that she was making the accusation without ill-motive and apologized to her for how he behaved in the incident. Though only after she had already had her reputation publicly trashed. That's a hell of a weak position for you to suggest she was "clout chasing" from, even without getting into the broader point that a woman is many multiple times more likely to be raped than they are falsely accuse someone of rape.
I think emotions are running a bit high at the moment.There’s literally a thread where we can discuss Kobe’s rape case but somehow we’re oppressing and censoring this discussion.
Obviously this is aimed at me, and I think it's nonsense. I initially asked for people's opinions on the topic, given how many people were claiming him to be the ultimate role model and all round do-gooder. That descended into tit for tat with people quoting me, instead of just ignoring my post(I now understand it's hard to think straight in the depths of grief).
I would hope that anyone that reads the article posted, and other sources, would come to the same conclusion as me, but it seems, as with most celebs, people are willing to just disregard serious things like this when they had some sort of admiration for the accused. I don't have any problem with people talking up him as a player etc., but do you not find it a bit strange having people proclaim him as the ultimate role model, given what you've(I assume) read?
I hope so. Because it is very common for fans to get defensive when someone starts to question a player's legacy. You can be the most famous/talented footballer on the planet and still be a POS human being. One isn't exclusive of another.
It's not an insult but it's just portraying him too simplistic. Same with Kobe, if he was just a good player there wouldn't be such a huge mourning over his death.
Sure but it still happens. I was expecting some smoking gun evidence in the article and all it provided was a he said she said story. Yet people on here are entirely convinced he’s guilty of rape. The evidence in the article is not enough to prove that.
This is an awful post.
We sort of do the same with player performance threads and I ain’t never heard anyone complaining about censorship in those. Certain people are just trying to be provocative contrarians and pretending innocence when they get called out on it.
I’ll tell you what’s awful. Being certain someone is a rapist based off an article that doesn’t prove so. Why don’t you tell me the exact details Sherlock?
Enlighten me?
Its pretty much par for the course when posting in the internet. Most people achieve group recognition through herd behavior, and those who can’t, usually find it by behaving contrary to the herd.
I obviously can't prove he raped her, but I think most level headed people could come to a pretty clear conclusion, once you set aside any bias. A man is x200~ more likely to be raped, than to be falsely accused of rape. <10% of rape accusations are proven to be false, and that doesn't include cases where there was no physical evidence of sexual activity. She had bruising on her neck, lacerations in her vaginal area(consistent with rape), and he initially claimed they didn't have sex.
A similar situation happened with Conor McGregor recently in Ireland, and the case magically disappeared. Seemed to be a huge correlation between being a law expert and a McGregor fan online at that time too.
I'm not defending anything because I haven't read enough on it, but you're downplaying the effect of sports, entertainment, culture, music - anything that doesn't hold much value logically, but actually makes the world somewhat bearable to be on, and possibly inspires or influences millions of people. You're downplaying it as a way of ridiculing and belittling anyone who may have been affected by his death in some small way, even if they didn't know him.
Should everyone consider the rape case and be aware of it? Probably yeah. All things considered, was it wise to drop it in like you did in a thread paying respects to someone who's clearly had a big effect on people? Almost certainly no and you only did it that way to provoke.
What would be the correct way?
If a person raped someone, then, at least to me, that person is a rapist first and anything else comes second. So said player would be a rapist who was good at sport.
I find that a lot of people can only attribute such behaviour due to their own self-judgement on how they behave.
That's a fancy way of saying "most people agree on things but some people disagree".
Even if said player had never been proven to be a rapist?
If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.
A logical conclusion, but what if the case was shrouded in a degree of ambiguity - a “he said, she said”, that ultimately never resulted in a conviction. Would that change your view?
A separate thread? Wait until the shock of someone's death who's clearly had an effect on people has waned a little? What exactly is achieved by throwing it in 5 minutes after everyone finding out him and his daughter have died?
Just to be relevant? To make everyone else realise they're pieces of shit? I can't imagine what a weird place that comes from.
I’m aware of the stats but this woman could have been one of the <10%. And I don’t know if the numbers change when it involves high profile people as far as false accusations go. But it’s merely a point to make and not really hard evidence. With the bruise, it’s suspicious of course but that can also easily happen in consensual sex so that’s difficult to use as well. The lacerations, again another suspicious find, but that doesn’t prove rape either. And a quick search shows that vaginal lacerations are not necessarily associated with forced sex. The last point, one could chalk that up to Kobe not wanting to get caught for adultery. I’m not 100% certain of any of this but it’s enough to make me doubt. I think that’s reasonable.
Now, now. OJ was an extreme case - it was an absolutely slam dunk that got away due to a set of extraordinary circumstances. Not to mention that he got done in the civil trial.
Fair points, but would you hold that exact opinion for someone other than your basketball idol?
It depends on the information available. OJ is a murderer, who happened to be good at sports. He wasn’t sentenced.
Michael Jackson was a pedophile who was good at music. He was never sentenced.
Kobe, according to everything I know, was a rapist who was good at sports.
Klaus Kinski, an actor who’s work I enjoy a lot, was a rapist who happened to be a good actor.
If I can’t be sure, I’ll just keep away from calling said person anything. But if I can be sure and those examples I gave are sure things, these people are all murderers/rapists first.
He weren't found guilty in a criminal court of law m'lud.
An awful lot of assumptions being attributed to people round 'ere.
You're not being funny
I think it's personally think it's galling to see someone be referred to as a role model and amazing human, when something like this looms over them. Whatever about talking about his career as a player, but to suggest he was such an amazing person, I think these sorts of things should at least be mentioned?
The civil case against Bryant was settled for an undisclosed amount.
No, I don't think all of the topics pertaining to the debates surrounding this event and person to be at all funny.You're not being funny
I wouldn’t call him my idol but he was my favorite player (am a Lakers fan) and I have respect for him for his competitiveness and work ethic. But I take your point. Of course there will be more hesitance when it involves someone you feel is special, and I probably fall into that category here. But ultimately I have to judge it based on the real facts. On the flip side, I so wanted Justice Kavanaugh to be guilty but even I had my doubts about the validity of the victim’s story. And for that, I can only say I don’t know for sure either.