Sky1981
Fending off the urge
The problem is that no fans ever proven that they know nothing about football.
There's no lottery to manager united a month.
There's no lottery to manager united a month.
A lot I imagine, and for the most part they’re right. I have a few retired footballers in the family, and I’m friends with some current and retired footballers also. None of them are exactly Beckham, but they’ve had strong careers in the likes of the championship and league 1 and they’re pretty disdainful of what your average fan thinks (myself included). So I imagine this is pretty much the general consensus amongst footballers.Just bumping this as I was watching a podcast with Andre Gray today and he stated that ‘95% of fans don’t understand football’. As we can see, he’s not the first player to say this, and I wonder what percentage of them actually have this point of view.
The opinion is right. Most fans don't understand football to a deep degree, however I also think footballers don't necessarily understand football deeply either, more so they just understand the roles of their position much better than others. If you want to hear deep insight into football you have to hear experts or managers.Just bumping this as I was watching a podcast with Andre Gray today and he stated that ‘95% of fans don’t understand football’. As we can see, he’s not the first player to say this, and I wonder what percentage of them actually have this point of view.
He is saying that until you are playing against these people at close quarters and seeing the nuts and bolts of the game you don’t realise how good they are. I posted his comments about Pogba specifically in the/a Pogba thread because those quotes are floating around - but his point started with him referencing Busquets. He was talking about how you can’t get near him on the pitch (not because he will fall over!) and the way he starts the play off is second to none.
Couldn’t find the excerpt, but the whole interview with threesixtytv is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch.
I agree.The thing is, perhaps I’m just underlining my cluelessness - but I hear so many ex-footballers speak who seem to be totally clueless themselves. Especially on MUTV. The likes of Lou Macari and co sound like what I’d expect a 10 year old to sound like talking about football. Same with Paul Scholes. ‘Just kick the ball in the net’ seems to be the extent of their analysis.
I agree with that, because as I said, many ex-pros seem totally clueless to me. It is funny how many plumbers and bricklayers have so much criticism for genuine football geniuses like Mourinho for example.The opinion is right. Most fans don't understand football to a deep degree, however I also think footballers don't necessarily understand football deeply either, more so they just understand the roles of their position much better than others. If you want to hear deep insight into football you have to hear experts or managers.
I don’t think their point has anything to do with the quality of the player - more an appreciation of the pictures they see and the environment of the football field. And to that degree, it’s likely very true. Most of us have played football to some level, but playing it at a top level, understanding the detail in where and how to position yourself etc - the intricacies, the pressure, I think you need to experience it to fully get it.I don't think the general point is wrong in that most fans are idiots. But I do mostly disagree in principle, if that makes any sense. You don't have to be able to do something athletically to understand it. The fact that there are so many great coaches who were barely average players sortve proves that and look at how many of the pros turned pundit seemingly have no clue what they're talking about.
It seems like an easy way to brush off criticism.
I think some of you are taking the point to literally too. I don't think many fans think they could genuinely manage any top flight clubs but that doesn't mean you can't watch a match and see an obvious flaw occuring within a lineup, a player having a bad game, an area open to be exploited, etc.
This is a big part of it Watching on the telly or even in the stadium doesn’t quite convey how fast the game is moving.Most of us have played football to some level, but playing it at a top level, understanding the detail in where and how to position yourself etc - the intricacies, the pressure, I think you need to experience it to fully get it.
I don't think understanding is necessary for the most part. Execution is more important, and if you make it to the pro level you've spent 1000s of hours practising/executing the same moves/drills/positioning over and over again. The biggest difference is that the best players are better at executing them. In fact, there isn't much difference in the hours you need to put in to have a career at Man Utd or a career at Southampton. So there's no reason why someone like Scholes should have a better tactical understanding than a journeyman who spent his career at a midtable club.I don’t think their point has anything to do with the quality of the player - more an appreciation of the pictures they see and the environment of the football field. And to that degree, it’s likely very true. Most of us have played football to some level, but playing it at a top level, understanding the detail in where and how to position yourself etc - the intricacies, the pressure, I think you need to experience it to fully get it.
I do agree though that many ex-pros seem absolutely clueless, but that may be more an issue of poor articulation than it is of understanding.
Can you elaborate on this point? I don’t quite understand what you’re trying to say.Disagree, football is not a particularly complex science you could hardly say the game has been revolutionised tactically in recent decades, the format is primarily the same.
If it was a contact sport like boxing then absolutely because theres numerous foundations that proceed becoming a professional (amateur ranks, level of commitment to training, etc). Its a more diverse sport. I do think it can be unfair to criticise players without rationale to justify, but to suggest if a team was to replace a player or use a different method in approach is hardly way out of line.
I absolutely believe that football fans that haven't been professional footballers can't really understand football. Many can analyze a game and make some conclusions based on hindsight but most of football talk is about things that they not only don't know but also can't know. Analyzing the feelings of players, relationships and what's generally going through their minds. All nonsense. I've been watching football all my life, I've played it for half of it but not at any important level. Working on a football TV show with former international players, some that have played in the PL, many managers that have managed for decades and hearing them talk about football. I've never heard similar talk on this forum. I can't participate in their conversation. There's no way. Managers are even on another level to former players for the most part. They see the game differently and know the game differently. Like Evra said in the recent United podcast when discussing his badges. He's a nobody now. Whatever he's done as a player makes no difference as a manager. It's not all correct, he's being somwhat modest but I get his point.Just bumping this as I was watching a podcast with Andre Gray today and he stated that ‘95% of fans don’t understand football’. As we can see, he’s not the first player to say this, and I wonder what percentage of them actually have this point of view.
He is saying that until you are playing against these people at close quarters and seeing the nuts and bolts of the game you don’t realise how good they are. I posted his comments about Pogba specifically in the/a Pogba thread because those quotes are floating around - but his point started with him referencing Busquets. He was talking about how you can’t get near him on the pitch (not because he will fall over!) and the way he starts the play off is second to none.
Couldn’t find the excerpt, but the whole interview with threesixtytv is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch.
name one title in your portfolio and i'll tell you how to improve itI’d guess he’s absolutely right. I design video games and lifelong gamers generally think they know exactly what should be done to ‘improve’ a game. They’re usually so wrong it’s almost painful. If you do something for a living you soon come to learn that what seems obvious or common sense can very easily be nothing of the sort.
Can't agree with this. I've had conversations with ex footballers and one of my mates was our national teams' captain and nothing they say about the game is particularly mind blowing. We hear them all the time on TV say nothing out of this world.I absolutely believe that football fans that haven't been professional footballers can't really understand football. Many can analyze a game and make some conclusions based on hindsight but most of football talk is about things that they not only don't know but also can't know. Analyzing the feelings of players, relationships and what's generally going through their minds. All nonsense. I've been watching football all my life, I've played it for half of it but not at any important level. Working on a football TV show with former international players, some that have played in the PL, many managers that have managed for decades and hearing them talk about football. I've never heard similar talk on this forum. I can't participate in their conversation. There's no way. Managers are even on another level to former players for the most part. They see the game differently and know the game differently. Like Evra said in the recent United podcast when discussing his badges. He's a nobody now. Whatever he's done as a player makes no difference as a manager. It's not all correct, he's being somwhat modest but I get his point.
Don't get me wrong, talking about what's going on in the game is fine but it's mostly hindsight chatter and it only focuses on the match but not the rest of the workweek for a player or coach or manager. That's not what football is like for the players. There's no reason for fans to be offended about that. For some reason sports and politics are the two forms of occupations which people vocally talk about how it should be done with zero experience on the matter. That's just our culture. It's fine to talk about, just don't pretend to be an expert.
On the other hand the pros don't understand that much what it's like to be a fan with these kind of adult opinions. The last time they though about football the way we do they were kids. They've been living the life since they were teens and barely know anything else.
I was 100% with you until you started talking about boxing. The thousands, tens of thousands of hours elite footballers put into training their technical skills, on top of the now widespread intense physical conditioning far exceed what it takes to be a similarly elite level of boxer. Now MMA? That's a different story, adapting to different styles, different schools of fighting, tactically and technically it's on another world.Disagree, football is not a particularly complex science you could hardly say the game has been revolutionised tactically in recent decades, the format is primarily the same.
If it was a contact sport like boxing then absolutely because theres numerous foundations that proceed becoming a professional (amateur ranks, level of commitment to training, etc). Its a more diverse sport. I do think it can be unfair to criticise players without rationale to justify, but to suggest if a team was to replace a player or use a different method in approach is hardly way out of line.
I think this is some of the stuff the likes of Gray was referring to though. This is why you often hear players mention unexpected people when talking about tough/best opposition they have faced. There are many reasons why players land at different levels in the game, but I guess a person like Gray who has shared a pitch with them has a different perspective.Can't agree with this. I've had conversations with ex footballers and one of my mates was our national teams' captain and nothing they say about the game is particularly mind blowing. We hear them all the time on TV say nothing out of this world.
Depends what sort of fan you are. There are those that are analytical about the game and those that aren't. Obviously a fan wouldn't understand the more technical aspects of the game(i.e the breakdown of ball striking) but anyone can go on the course to try to understand the game tactically.
True. Check Redcafe for details.
Sometimes the answer is obvious.
Yeah every season and every game teams lose match because of attitude or not wanting it as much as the other guys. When a team is doing bad "they have downed tools"/"they are not playing for the manager".I agree.
Something doesn't add up.
Whilst I think I agree with Kolarov's comments; the amount of ex-pros turned pundits who offer nothing in their analysis is striking. I don't believe they are dumbing it down to the lowest common denominator.
So true, love that disclaimer..cos there are a fair few in the cafNot true.
1) Understanding football is different to playing it.
2) The difference is, we don't have the solutions but can only identify the problems. Having the solutions is where the money is at. Any fan could tell you Lukaku has a poor first touch or Rooney moves about the park too much. The pros however can understand how to use that information better and overcome the weaknesses.
3) There are some things we as fan don't know, but we also don't comment on those things: training drills, approach to the game, nutrition and overall professional aspect of football. I don't see us debating over who should be leading the next coaching session
disclaimed: I am talking about the fans who do have an understanding of the game beyond "lets sign Neymar, and all shiny players"
It doesn't count if you play 4-4-2.What's not to understand? When you put the ball into the net, you score a goal.