Konrad Laimer

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
3,354

Tottenham are in the running apparently. Had a fantastic game against Dortmund recently. I don’t know a whole lot about him though to comment
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
27,949
Looks like he’s out of contract in 2023, in case anyone was a bit confused by the wording in the tweet like me.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
8,973
Ive been interested in him ever since some YouTube video called him a very statistically dominant midfielder.

Seems like the type of player we don't really take chances on unfortunately & Is the only hope I had for Rangnick potentially influencing our transfers more than being our manager.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
10,082
He wouldn’t really solve our lack of creativity from the deep midfield position though. We’d be buying another Fred.
Creativity is not our problem, it seems it because our midfield and balance is dysfunctional. We have nothing on our right so all our creative play is down the left. Secondly, whenever we are defending, the opposition always look like they have an extra player, this is because our midfield is not compact and solid.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
22,911
He wouldn’t really solve our lack of creativity from the deep midfield position though. We’d be buying another Fred.
Bit of a lazy conclusion. I'd rather get a player fitting a system well than get someone who is creative for the fun of it. Pogba hasn't exactly been a shining light since he joined us.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
23,017
Location
...
Creativity is not our problem, it seems it because our midfield and balance is dysfunctional. We have nothing on our right so all our creative play is down the left. Secondly, whenever we are defending, the opposition always look like they have an extra player, this is because our midfield is not compact and solid.
That’s because they often do, and I don’t think Laimer solves it, because he isn’t a DM and will not replace Bruno. So effectively, he will likely just take Fred’s place and do the same thing. I think a lot of other teams use defenders to help occupy the midfield on transition, or more likely, they play with 3 proper midfielders in the first place. Unless we do either of those, I think we will still get outnumbered centrally.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
23,017
Location
...
Bit of a lazy conclusion. I'd rather get a player fitting a system well than get someone who is creative for the fun of it. Pogba hasn't exactly been a shining light since he joined us.
There is also an argument that we should be building a midfield firstly for what they can do with the ball than what they do without it.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
10,082
That’s because they often do, and I don’t think Laimer solves it, because he isn’t a DM and will not replace Bruno. So effectively, he will likely just take Fred’s place and do the same thing. I think a lot of other teams use defenders to help occupy the midfield on transition, or more likely, they play with 3 proper midfielders in the first place. Unless we do either of those, I think we will still get outnumbered centrally.
I know what you mean, Fred gives us the energy. I won't claim to know alot about this guy, so I am not going to say he will change things. If he is better than Fred on the ball, then its an upgrade in my eyes. We are toothless without the ball, we make it so easy for teams to play, I dont know how its so bad. When we attack, it seems every player has 1/2 players marking them.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
27,949
There is also an argument that we should be building a midfield firstly for what they can do with the ball than what they do without it.
100%. Just from FBRef alone, this guy is in the 99th percentile for pressing across all midfielders in Europe's top 5 leagues. That's great. But the number of passes he attempts per 90 minutes puts him in the 48th percentile (exact same as McTominay), and in terms of actual pass accuracy he's in the 24th percentile, which is really crap for a midfielder.
If he is better than Fred on the ball, then its an upgrade in my eyes.
Doesn't look like he is, see above.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
35,218
I really liked him, would certainly be a good extra body for us. Can play RWB also.

I think he had a bad injury though, not sure how he's recovered since then?
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
90,003
Location
Barrow In Furness
I know what you mean, Fred gives us the energy. I won't claim to know alot about this guy, so I am not going to say he will change things. If he is better than Fred on the ball, then its an upgrade in my eyes. We are toothless without the ball, we make it so easy for teams to play, I dont know how its so bad. When we attack, it seems every player has 1/2 players marking them.
It's just about energy, he will need to be taught how to press in a disciplined way. That has been our problem, too few players with the energy to press for the majority of the game, but they do it in a half arsed way. I might be nice to half one player in there who doesn't need teaching.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
35,218
100%. Just from FBRef alone, this guy is in the 99th percentile for pressing across all midfielders in Europe's top 5 leagues. That's great. But the number of passes he attempts per 90 minutes puts him in the 48th percentile (exact same as McTominay), and in terms of actual pass accuracy he's in the 24th percentile, which is really crap for a midfielder.

Doesn't look like he is, see above.
You can't really be a pressing machine and be on the ball 24/7, it just doesn't correlate like that. I'd certainly say he's a similar player to Fred though. As long as he is tidy on the ball that's the main thing.
 

lifted

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
573
Location
Salford
Do we think that these sorts of players will be the litmus test about what sort of influence Rangnick has in the club come the summer?
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
27,949
You can't really be a pressing machine and be on the ball 24/7, it just doesn't correlate like that. I'd certainly say he's a similar player to Fred though. As long as he is tidy on the ball that's the main thing.
You're correct, but then that's the question; do we want a rather reactive midfield who excel off the ball, or do we want one who can play around on it? Are we looking more for a Laimer style of player, or a Ruben Neves?
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
3,354
Sure this is a signing on the back of Rangnicks latest comments on how we lack physicality and aggression then judging by everyone's comments here
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
35,218
You're correct, but then that's the question; do we want a rather reactive midfield who excel off the ball, or do we want one who can play around on it? Are we looking more for a Laimer style of player, or a Ruben Neves?
I imagine we're going to need both.

Most modern 4-3-3 systems use 2 pressers at the front and a CDM/DLP to dictate play from deeper positions.

I suspect Laimer would be rotation with Fred, and we'd use the likes of Garner/Rice/Kamara whoever you like as the CDM.

Either way he's another body we really need that fits the mould of what we want from a midfielder. He'd also be great for the budget and wages won't be very high at all.
 

Hernandez - BFA

The Way to Fly
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
15,992
I thought he played really well against us the last time we played against them. I like him.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
23,017
Location
...
I imagine we're going to need both.

Most modern 4-3-3 systems use 2 pressers at the front and a CDM/DLP to dictate play from deeper positions.

I suspect Laimer would be rotation with Fred, and we'd use the likes of Garner/Rice/Kamara whoever you like as the CDM.

Either way he's another body we really need that fits the mould of what we want from a midfielder. He'd also be great for the budget and wages won't be very high at all.
This is another issue though. We don’t use a ‘modern 433’, we have, now more than ever, committed to a 4231 with a 10. I’ve said for a while, but the issue with our midfield is as much the shape of it as it is personnel.
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
3,354
This is another issue though. We don’t use a ‘modern 433’, we have, now more than ever, committed to a 4231 with a 10. I’ve said for a while, but the issue with our midfield is as much the shape of it as it is personnel.
We surely can't force our new manager to do this though, the manager will want to play how they want to play
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
22,911
There is also an argument that we should be building a midfield firstly for what they can do with the ball than what they do without it.
If they aren't working off the ball, it doesn't matter what they can do with it. Wjinaldum, Henderson, Keita, etc. aren't creative midfielders. They're flat 3 workhorses who are able to do the simple things extremely well.
ETH for example, if he joins, will undoubtedly leverage the full backs more and that's where our technical upgrades will be most visible. A pressing player of Laimer's ilk is long overdue in the middle of the park.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
25,812
Location
England
@Adnan is a fan, if I remember correctly
Laimer is a good player if the aim is to implement a counter pressing strategy in a compact high block to force quick counters. He'd fit into Pochettino and Rangnick's way of thinking, because neither coach looks to control the game in possession and instead the aforementioned two place a heavy emphasis on winning the ball back high up the pitch by utilising high energy midfielders, which Laimer is stylistically a fit for.

Erik ten Hag's primary aim is to control the game both with and without the ball, he prefers the more technical midfielder in a similar role to enhance the build up phase. So I don't believe Laimer would stylistically be a fit in a ten Hag team, which is a team that is coached to exert zonal and positional control in possession.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
23,017
Location
...
We surely can't force our new manager to do this though, the manager will want to play how they want to play
Well this is where the whole Paul Merson argument comes into it. I think we have already forced our next manager into a situation where he will need to line up with a 10, at least for a long time before we accept we should probably play differently, which is a problem that we will not want and try to delay for ever and ever and keep trying to make a 4231 work.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,142
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
Simply love him, have wanted us to sign him for a while. Had a great 2019-20 when Leipzig reached the UCL semi but then had a horrible injury that kept him out for most of the next season. Took him some time to get back into full fitness this season as well but he's been back to his best lately.

I was really surprised that we were after Haidara in January as I think Laimer is the best B2B midfielder within Leipzig.

Fred is a similar player, which may not bode well with people here, but Fred has been pretty good under Ralf. I would say Laimer has slightly better technical ability and energy off the ball than Fred, which will help in pressing and countering it from the opposition.

He won't solve all of our midfield issues but he will certainly be a signing that is a step in the right direction.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
23,017
Location
...
If they aren't working off the ball, it doesn't matter what they can do with it. Wjinaldum, Henderson, Keita, etc. aren't creative midfielders. They're flat 3 workhorses who are able to do the simple things extremely well.
ETH for example, if he joins, will undoubtedly leverage the full backs more and that's where our technical upgrades will be most visible. A pressing player of Laimer's ilk is long overdue in the middle of the park.
We have one in Fred. And absolutely, we need our midfielders to work off the ball. That should also be a given.

And we are very unlikely to get what Liverpool get from Trent and Henderson from whoever we play.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
2,167
Well this is where the whole Paul Merson argument comes into it. I think we have already forced our next manager into a situation where he will need to line up with a 10, at least for a long time before we accept we should probably play differently, which is a problem that we will not want and try to delay for ever and ever and keep trying to make a 4231 work.
Both Pochetinno's and Ten Hag go to formation seem to be 4231 so We won't be forcing anything on them in that regard but whether Bruno is good enough to play for them as No 10 is different thing all together .
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
10,082
It's just about energy, he will need to be taught how to press in a disciplined way. That has been our problem, too few players with the energy to press for the majority of the game, but they do it in a half arsed way. I might be nice to half one player in there who doesn't need teaching.
I think this is a major problem from the Jose days where our players do not know how to press or occupy spaces where they can intercept. More often than not, a good midfielder passes through our midfield and we chasing back.

Fred, McT, Pogba, Bruno, are all attacking minded, none of them know the role of a defensive minded midfielder who can smell danger.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
22,911
We have one in Fred. And absolutely, we need our midfielders to work off the ball. That should also be a given.

And we are very unlikely to get what Liverpool get from Trent and Henderson from whoever we play.
One is not sufficient. I'd also argue we are yet to see the best of Fred. In a pressing system he can be an huge huge gem in the side but it's not yet been seen. Fred's better performances are under Rangnick as he's one of the few who appears to listen to the instructions.

Liverpool was just an example by the way. You can look at how Conte or Tuchel really unlocked fullbacks better after Nuno/Lampard left the fold too. I have little doubt the technical upgrades will be made in those areas. Moreover hard working midfielders tasked with keeping the ball high up the pitch will give Rashford/Sancho and any other signings like Antony/Nkunku etc. to be more bold in taking on players and direct. They'll have a much better safety net to recycle the ball if need be.

Right now we have Pogba and Bruno when we can only afford to field 1. And then McT who is too limited. I don't want to see another creative midfielder enter the fold. Both Poch and ETH like workers in midfield with one creator max centrally. Bruno is already that guy. Of course these "workers" must also be technical. I dont know if Laimer is poor technically, but he sounds to be able enough.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
22,911

I haven't seen a lot of him so I thought I'd share. I just like the ilk of a pressing player in the middle. I'd love a team of that + more guile at Full Back. Reckon this will have the domino effect to allow our front 3 to shine.

After Rangnick's hints of a lack of physicality, it makes sense to go for this type.
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
90,003
Location
Barrow In Furness
I think this is a major problem from the Jose days where our players do not know how to press or occupy spaces where they can intercept. More often than not, a good midfielder passes through our midfield and we chasing back.

Fred, McT, Pogba, Bruno, are all attacking minded, none of them know the role of a defensive minded midfielder who can smell danger.
We always just seem to back off players as well, we don't even do it by driving them into less dangerous areas. We just let them run straight towards our goal. We aren't good at tactical fouls either, we let them get too near and then give stupid freekicks on the edge of the box which put us in danger.