Kyle Rittenhouse | Now crowdfunding LOLsuits against Whoopi Goldberg, LeBron James, and The Young Turks

Hansi Fick

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I find it crazy that a German gentleman would attempt to make the comparison. Especially citing “corporate fascists and their media outlets” as comparative.

I strongly suggest you look up some of the Weimar printed media from around 1926 on. If anything close was published in the US the fbi would be kicking the door down.

If that’s not evidence enough, look up evidence from state parliaments of that era and you will find ample example.

I’m simply incredulous at the fact you feel it’s comparable in any way shape or form. Overt racism is on the very fringes of society. You won’t find a single credible media outlet running cartoons with blacks as monkeys or child killers. If a member of the House of Representatives says nutty crap (hi Marjorie) they’ll be called out and ridiculed for it. And I must have missed the 200,000 strong ideologically driven paramilitary army dominating the streets too.

I’ll ask it another way: what actual (real not perceived) similarities are there that you see?
I didn't say it's the same. I said it's vibes of..
But hey, don't you think the US have a problem with a rising and increasingly unhinged fascist right? Storming the parliament and a president trying to overturn an election is not ominous enough? It's pretty weird that anyone would try to downplay the severity of this.
 

owlo

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Agree with everything here but the ‘fringes’ comment. Overt racism is a bit more engrained & widespread.
Possibly worded it wrong, but I was referring to stuff like the KKK or whatever other dumbass white supremacist groups/organisations exist there. The FBI are probably on most of their trails too, whereas in late Weimar (certainly in the 30s) these groups were hugely prevalent. Just as a very simplistic example, by 1932, almost 0.8% of the population were members of the SA.

Probably should have said “extreme overt racism“ or something.

I didn't say it's the same. I said it's vibes of..
But hey, don't you think the US have a problem with a rising and increasingly unhinged fascist right? Storming the parliament and a president trying to overturn an election is not ominous enough? It's pretty weird that anyone would try to downplay the severity of this.
Not trying to downplay anything. You don’t need to make spurious comparisons to note theres some serious crap going on there.
 

Maxii

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Cnut is going to be unbearable when he becomes a minor celebrity after this
 

Red_toad

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Media outlets indeed -- they're the ones guilty of making a mess out of this case making us believe he was some mass shooter.
His gun craft was very good, shot those who attacked him when he was on the floor. Should never have been roaming the streets armed, but that’s a different issue entirely.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Is this post satirical or just plain ignorant?
his political and historical compass got a gigantic magnet on the left
 

maniak

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Do you just log on the caf every day with the intention of shitting on someone? A brief glance at your post history suggests you use this platform forum like twitter. You log on, find your target and spend a while having a go at them until they stop responding.
Long may she continue, one of the best posters around.
 

lex talionis

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i don't think I've ever heard of anyone being killed by a log or a blunt object before.
Would the individuals whom Rittenhouse had gunned down because Rittenhouse feared plastic bags and skateboards have been justified if they had killed Rittenhouse because he was carrying a vastly more lethal object, an assault weapon?
 

Sviken

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i don't think I've ever heard of anyone being killed by a log or a blunt object before.
Found this post curious, courtesy to @lex talionis. Ever heard of the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker? It was his preferred method of killing. You can do heck of a lot of damage with a blunt object, my man.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Would the individuals whom Rittenhouse had gunned down because Rittenhouse feared plastic bags and skateboards have been justified if they had killed Rittenhouse because he was carrying a vastly more lethal object, an assault weapon?
no
 

Withnail

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His gun craft was very good, shot those who attacked him when he was on the floor. Should never have been roaming the streets armed, but that’s a different issue entirely.
So do you have to shoot four people or kill four people to be deemed a mass shooter on the arbitrarily chosen scale?
 

NotThatSoph

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Would the individuals whom Rittenhouse had gunned down because Rittenhouse feared plastic bags and skateboards have been justified if they had killed Rittenhouse because he was carrying a vastly more lethal object, an assault weapon?
Grosskreutz would've had a very strong self defense case if he shot first. Lesson learned, I guess.
 

Gehrman

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Would the individuals whom Rittenhouse had gunned down because Rittenhouse feared plastic bags and skateboards have been justified if they had killed Rittenhouse because he was carrying a vastly more lethal object, an assault weapon?
They would have been justified if they decided to take the law into their own hands and think they were killing a murderer. Rosenbaum reached for his gun and got shot. Skateboard guy tried the same and got shot. The guy with the glock pointed at Kyle's head got shot in the arm. They all attacked him and got shot in return.
 
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Tarrou

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I haven't really been following this as I expected him to get off

but feck me, it's still kinda shocking that.. they couldn't find him guilty of anything? crazy crazy country
 

OutlawGER

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I didn't say it's the same. I said it's vibes of..
At least you admit that you just got exposed.


his political and historical compass got a gigantic magnet on the left
Yeah it's very obvious.

Frightening is though, that there are so many like these kind of guys in our country right now and most media are backing them.
 

Red_toad

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So do you have to shoot four people or kill four people to be deemed a mass shooter on the arbitrarily chosen scale?
I don’t have to shoot anyone. My life isn’t under threat and I have no need for a gun where I live. Plus I’m not A judge nor jury who has to make judgements on those accused. So odd question to ask me…
 

Sky1981

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Hardly surprising. The dude is fanatical and pretty well trained he's probably checked his 4 corner and knows his right well.

His discipline and tactical abilities while on the ground is admirable and would make most police forces pale in comparison.

The lesson of the story is that if you see a guy armed with ar15. Dont be a hero and assault him. If you're not happy and feel provoked walk away, if he starts verbal abuse or threats, call the cops.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Yeah it's very obvious.

Frightening is though, that there are so many like these kind of guys in our country right now and most media are backing them.
Yes, our society, especially the younger members, read too much reddit and know too few who had lived their lives in actual dictatorship. Bashing the US and talking in hyperboles only in these regards is extremely popular, somehow. Everybody knows the US have many issues, but comparing the US with the WR is irrational at best, especially considering he was talking about the early 1930s, not just the WR (most likely meaning the rise of the NSDAP as well) in general.

Funny enough, from my own POV, it seems like this trial‘s outcome shows the opposite of a biased judicial system, regardless of the masses personal opinion. By law, this seems proper. But unpopular.
 

oates

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Yes, our society, especially the younger members, read too much reddit and know too few who had lived their lives in actual dictatorship. Bashing the US and talking in hyperboles only in these regards is extremely popular, somehow. Everybody knows the US have many issues, but comparing the US with the WR is irrational at best, especially considering he was talking about the early 1930s, not just the WR (most likely meaning the rise of the NSDAP as well) in general.

Funny enough, from my own POV, it seems like this trial‘s outcome shows the opposite of a biased judicial system, regardless of the masses personal opinion. By law, this seems proper. But unpopular.
You and your mate's posts bother me.

By the by the Judge's instructions not to call the victims, 'victims' appears biased and yes, very reminiscent of (mentioning Godwin's Law next for the faint hearted) 1930s and 40s Germany. There's vibes there alright.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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They would have been justified if they decided to take the law into their own hands and think they were killing a murderer. Rosenbaum reached for his gun and got shot. Skateboard guy tried the same and got shot. The guy with the glock pointed at Kyle's head got shot in the arm. They all attacked him and got shot in return.
This is all just too fu**** up. Thankfully American gun culture is one disease that won't infect the world. Even most developing countries have very sensible laws around that.
 
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Rektsanwalt

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Do we have the data to back this up? Are there really more people who think Kyle should have been punished than those who think he did nothing wrong?
Judging by the media and the internet, so that's basically an assumption made by me, correct. I don't have any data but yet I think under Biden and with the general (necessary) outrage caused by the death of George Floyd, I assumed this is a rather unpopular opinion amongst most people (in the US especially).
 

Moby

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Judging by the media and the internet, so that's basically an assumption made by me, correct. I don't have any data but yet I think under Biden and with the general (necessary) outrage caused by the death of George Floyd, I assumed this is a rather unpopular opinion amongst most people (in the US especially).
I don't live there, so it's not possible for me to really know the feeling on the ground but I'd be interested to know if this really is an unpopular decision, and we can be at least be sure that this will be very popular with certain sections of the country. The talks of this guy joining politics aren't far fetched.
 

Rektsanwalt

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You and your mate's posts bother me.

By the by the Judge's instructions not to call the victims, 'victims' appears biased and yes, very reminiscent of (mentioning Godwin's Law next for the faint hearted) 1930s and 40s Germany. There's vibes there alright.
Well, I'm sorry for bothering you and I meant no offense by posting what I posted. My understanding of the anglo-american legal (judicial) system is not as deep as I would like it to be (it's extremely different from german law, so I can't focus on both systems), so I can not tell you whether calling the possible offenders "victims" or not is proper or not. As far as I can tell, not calling the persons who were shot "victims" leads to neutrality and prevails necessary objectivity, as the word "victim" directly implies not only being someone who is injured, but someone who is wrongfully injured/damaged. So, my assumption is, that the judge didn't want language lead to any kind of bias. But someone please enlighten me, as I am talking out of my arse right now.
 

Rektsanwalt

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I don't live there, so it's not possible for me to really know the feeling on the ground but I'd be interested to know if this really is an unpopular decision, and we can be at least be sure that this will be very popular with certain sections of the country. The talks of this guy joining politics aren't far fetched.
Yes, I'd like to know about this as well. In any case and all things considered, I still think the outcome is - judging by law - the correct one.
Regarding Rittenhouse's future, I've read that he has already been instrumentalized and as he seems to be right-oriented I have to agree that it's very possible he could become a political figure of whatever kind. He won't go into serious politics, I'd say, as I deem him to be too young for that. But becoming some kind of side figure/symbol for the right, I think that's already happened.
 

T00lsh3d

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This is all just too fu**** up. Thankfully American gun culture is one disease that won't infect the world. Even most developing countries have very sensible laws around that.
It really is. 17 year-olds running round the streets with assault rifles. It grows more and more ridiculous with every passing year
 

Drainy

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Looks like the fight over the fundraised money is going to get ugly.

The previous MAGA lawyers who used it as a political case to raise the bail money are trying to get the bail money back for themselves.
 

arnie_ni

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I think they've started looking into it but nothing against KR (yet). I also read that KR may be taking civil action against people for defamation... :rolleyes:
I wouldn't be surprised if he comes after Biden. Didn't he call him a murderer or something? Not he's been found guilty surely Biden has opened himself up to one?
 

do.ob

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Yes, our society, especially the younger members, read too much reddit and know too few who had lived their lives in actual dictatorship. Bashing the US and talking in hyperboles only in these regards is extremely popular, somehow. Everybody knows the US have many issues, but comparing the US with the WR is irrational at best, especially considering he was talking about the early 1930s, not just the WR (most likely meaning the rise of the NSDAP as well) in general.

Funny enough, from my own POV, it seems like this trial‘s outcome shows the opposite of a biased judicial system, regardless of the masses personal opinion. By law, this seems proper. But unpopular.
This trial didn't necessarily make me thing about a democracy under threat (though the judge having a MAGA rally ringtone certainly raised my eyebrows), but the Weimar comparison is something that I've seen before and I wonder whether you think the bolded part also applies to these historians:
e.g. https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/06/weimars-lessons-for-bidens-america/
https://www.shankerinstitute.org/bl...nd-fracturing-americas-constitutional-order-0
 

arnie_ni

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A mixture of dumb luck and restraint. He was acting pretty suspiciously beyond wandering around with a rifle.
In the immediate build up to this, had he not just put out a fire and was about to put out another one or is that lies I've read online?
 

oates

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Well, I'm sorry for bothering you and I meant no offense by posting what I posted. My understanding of the anglo-american legal (judicial) system is not as deep as I would like it to be (it's extremely different from german law, so I can't focus on both systems), so I can not tell you whether calling the possible offenders "victims" or not is proper or not. As far as I can tell, not calling the persons who were shot "victims" leads to neutrality and prevails necessary objectivity, as the word "victim" directly implies not only being someone who is injured, but someone who is wrongfully injured/damaged. So, my assumption is, that the judge didn't want language lead to any kind of bias. But someone please enlighten me, as I am talking out of my arse right now.
You meant no offense? You and your mate set out to belittle @Hansi Fick by determining that his generation read too much Reddit, talked in Hyperbole etc etc. That's the sort of post, making up stuff about another poster which you actually have no knowledge of that bothers me. Then you apologise and try to justify your post. Not so much an apology.

The judge in my view did what the Nazis did, exactly what other groups do to their victims and that is to de-humanise them, painting them as criminals. Is that his decision to make or the jury's?
 

Javi

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If you want to wreck someone and walk free just make sure to provoke them into coming at you first.