Why? He is not the better player, not (significantly) cheaper and certainly not the more likeable player and person.When Vini was our best player and we didn't have Mbappé, we won the CL
Since we signed Mbappé, he's been our best player and we went out at the QF twice in a row
does this line of thinking make sense? No
Am i trying to make a point with this? Also no
But he and Vini are incompatible and I would rather keep Vini
Kylian Mbappé | Real Madrid watch
- Thread starter Samid
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As a United fan since the 80s, there are only two players I've feared touching the ball against us. Messi is one. Henry is the other. I used to swear blind at the time that Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy were better but I know that isn't true. Mbappe isn't at Henry's level yet.
I think a lot of people forget that Henry won a World Cup, and a euros. On top of his champions league and multiple premier leagues, being the best player in each season for Arsenal, winning numerous PFA accolades. Since Henry left arsenal, they’ve won next to nothing. Since Mbappe joined Real Madrid, they’ve won next to nothing, and PSG have become the best team in the world. His goals have come in two leagues with SO MUCH FODDER and his World Cup final hattrick gets so overrated, he scored two penalties ffs.
His goals record is amazing, but Henry did it against considerably better opposition week in, week out. That’s not for debate at all.
Henry was a support player for both the WC and Euro. His only good tournament was in 2006 which coincedes with Zidane comeback. Generally Henry has been underwhelming for France and was generally criticized for his lack of leadership and impact when it mattered.
From France they aren't close Mbappé is significantly more important than Henry ever was.
For France i totally agree. But, the Arsenal version of Henry was a beast who played beautifully. Mbappe lacks that finesse and elegance.
Mbappe used to create his own chances early on at PSG but he seems to have regressed. Henry always created for himself and for others while at Arsenal.
The biggest variable for PSG is Luis Enrique
There's absolutely a debate. Mbappe is about to smash the french leading scorer all time and at a much better ratio than Henry. He has a good chance to become the all time world cup leading goalscorer too.
It took me a while to accept it. I'll always prefer Henry for sureYou are right but I really don't want to accept it.
People talk about the impact on Vinicius, but I think it's Bellingham who they've struggled to fit in post Mbappe.
Bellingham was incredible for Madrid the season they won the CL and now they dont really have a way of getting a balanced team with him in it.
Bellingham was incredible for Madrid the season they won the CL and now they dont really have a way of getting a balanced team with him in it.
I think, last night Jude had a very good game as a more conventional CM. It has to be where he makes his spot even if that one season of scoring goals is really tempting to repeat
Shocker, people who mostly watch the PL prefer a player they saw 100 times more.
However great Henry was at Arsenal (very!), I, as many others, think that Mbappe has surpassed him already.
As others have said, ignore domestic leagues and look at the CL and EC/WC. Yes, Henry won EC and WC with France, but he was nowhere as instrumental as Mbappe. I‘d argue that Griezman has a better career for their national team than Henry.
However great Henry was at Arsenal (very!), I, as many others, think that Mbappe has surpassed him already.
As others have said, ignore domestic leagues and look at the CL and EC/WC. Yes, Henry won EC and WC with France, but he was nowhere as instrumental as Mbappe. I‘d argue that Griezman has a better career for their national team than Henry.
This is not controversial at all in France.
Not really. As a United fan, i mainly watched him vs us and in big games. During that time he was a nightmare to play against. Mbappe at PSG in his early years was scary mainly due to his astonishing pace combined with excellent technique but it doesn't feel that way anymore. He is still an excellent footballer but i cant help bit feel that he peaked early.
With France I agree that he was underwhelming and to extent in the champions league too.
Overall, at club level Henry > Mbappe; at international level: Mbappe > Henry.
Henry was better to watch.
I’m not going to override French followers (and knowledgeable and measured ones to boot) as youself or @JPRouve . Mbappe certainly is a beast of a player, as Henry was a beast of a player in a different way. And I’ll leave it for others to decide who has played the best football in total. Both had/have enormous physical and technical assets, and were/are very smart players. I do suspect that aspects of them that separates them can for one be an advantage in some contexts, for the other an advantage in another context. Mbappe’s ego and also status has stood him in good place as a central figure for France, where players like Antoine Griezman and Paul Pogba adapted to his strengths (for good reason and with good effects) and he became a fulcrum for France in two very succesfull campaigns. Henry was IMO a more modest person, put to the fore by Wenger, but in the NT he adapted to facilitate other players, like maybe the Worlds best player of his era, Zinedine Zidane. Both set ups worked wonders for France, so cheers to you for that! I wonder if the personality and attitude of Henry though maybe did more to bring out the best of teammates such as Pires, Ljungren etc, helping Arsenal for a while topple the best manager in world football history for a while! He also adapted to Messi at Barca. I think he maybe has helped other players become good more than Mbappe has.
One thing I’ll add in Henry’s defence, is that the PL as such was not as strong IMO in his heyday compared to now, when looking at La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga in particular (sorry, Ligue 1), as much as Arsenal being tougher to build a CL success with then than it for PSG and Real Madrid now, all the while his opponents in the PL then I believe was still a bit sharper than the ones Mbappe has faced in most league games more recently in Ligue 1 and La Liga.
Counting goals makes little sense to me as Henry often played as a wide man in his carreer for Monaco and France, while Mbappe even when playing as a left forward has mostly been the main focal point to set up goal scoring opportunities for.
Mbappe may be the worlds best football individualist in today’s football, but I still won’t count him among the geniuses who elevated both themselves and their teammates like Maradona did with Argentina and Napoli, Messi too, Zidane at France, Real Madrid and Juve, and Henry at a lesser niveau with Arsenal. I think I just appreciate that kind of player more.
Great post. Like you, I'll always have a soft spot for Henry and he's type of attacker I've always envisioned myself to be.
I'd just say that Mbappe has played in multiple systems throughout his career and it's only been fairly recent he's moved "centrally". Started with 2 attackers at Monaco, played on the right at the beginning for France then he became hungrier for goals with each passing seasons that it had to be accomodated with.
His versatility is very underrated
Why is he not likeable as a player or person?
The Balon d'Or tantrum, the Clasico substitution tantrum, his constant loss of composure, and so on.
A better question would be "what is likeable about him?"
A better question would be "what is likeable about him?"
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I like this post
Now here's a controversial opinion I'd like you french folk in particular to weight in on(@JPRouve @kouroux @Oly Francis @BalanceUnAutreJoint )
Griezmann was a better player than Henry and Benzema
How many goals would he score for us? All the goals! Bruno would have 2 assists a game with him here.
To me it's not controversial and in general only a minority will try to argue otherwise.
He might, but after a while you would notice the team as a whole doesn't score more with Mbappe in it.
Other players scores less as a result, so the team as a whole doesn't actually improve.
Vini lost you the tie the other night! He missed a couple of sitters put on a plate by Mbappe. I can’t see how you’d prefer him.When Vini was our best player and we didn't have Mbappé, we won the CL
Since we signed Mbappé, he's been our best player and we went out at the QF twice in a row
does this line of thinking make sense? No
Am i trying to make a point with this? Also no
But he and Vini are incompatible and I would rather keep Vini
You think so? Unless you meant from the point of view of French supporters. If so, I can see that considering Griezmann was far more influential for France than Henry and Benzema.
I think the general public would favor Benzema and Henry.
I'm curious why @giorno thinks Griezmann is better than Benzema.
Outside of Messi/Ronaldo, I don't think any attacker had the CL run Benzema did in 2021-2022. 15 goals from an xG of 7 ~ is absurd.
Although like Henry, Benzema's France career does leave something to be desired and he's got that scandal that blacklisted him from the national team.
It's not just goals but goals and assists in the CL and for France. And Henry wasn't surrounded with lesser players. The way people talk about this you would swear that Henry was playing with plumbers, as a reminder his succesful years with Arsenal included Vieira, Pirés, Cole, Touré, Campbell, Gilberto Silva, Lehman, Bergkamp among others. In reality he played with squads that were comparable to the ones Mbappé has had, though some PSG's midfield have been truly awful.
I think that he is talking about France.
I know, but remember where we are. Griezman never played in the PL and dyes his hair. He cannot be any good.
I was also only talking about the French national team.
I'm not sure that I think that. Certainly Benzema's 21/22 season was of such sun-brilliance, I feel confident saying neither Griezmann nor Henry were ever that good
But, Benzema was kind of the king of inconsistency for much of his career. And outside of that one season, I think he was also quite clearly a worse player than the other 2 overall, because of that
As for Griezmann and Henry...well, I think Griezmann was better in the biggest competitions. Dude dragged Atletico Madrid to a CL final, then dragged France to the Euro final, then had 2 absolutely monstrous World Cups. In general he was the guy keeping Atletico Madrid competitive against Barcelona and Real Madrid teams that were like the best club sides ever seen to that point at least. Idk. I think his track record is just more impressive than Henry's, but maybe I'm biased due to having it fresher in my mind
I don't think that anyone, including Messi and Ronaldo, in recent times has had a Champions League campaign as good as Benzema. Not only did he score plenty of goals, but he also played like Maradona.
Mbappé has won two consecutive World Cups, scoring in both finals, including 2 goals and an assist against Argentina in their 4-3 victory that was the decisive World Cup moment for France. He also scored an assisted in their 2-1 win against Spain that won them the Nations League. Henry has not scored in a final ever, and he has played 9 finals. They won Champions League because Barcelona was by far the best team in Europe, whereas current Real Madrid is quite average in comparison. Henry and Barcelona had Eto'o, Messi, Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi in addition to himself that year. You can't possibly believe that Mbappé is part of the reason why Real Madrid aren't winning anything. He is one of the few ones actually performing. He has 15 goals in this season's CL.
Mbappé took Monaco to the semi finals in CL as a 17 year old, scoring in every game from the round of 16 1st leg to the semi finals 2nd leg other than one game against Juventus, including both games against City, 3 goals against Dortmund and 1 against Juventus in the last leg. He has been among the world's best players since he was 17, and still has plenty of years left. The idea that Henry is some big game player, and Mbappé is not is bonkers.
And he defends as if he was a DM while also having sublime technique. To be honest I don't want to choose between these three, they are all great to watch for different reasons.
Argentina won the WC and Mbappé didn't take Monaco to the semi finals but he was a key contributor in a team effort, if one player had to be highlighted it would be Bernardo Silva.
He is in every single metric except he didn't strike fear into your 10 year old heart
How did I forget that, embarrassing. But yeah, still a hattrick and a great performance which was the main point. Well, without Mbappé they don't get to the semi finals, to be honest. But yes, that Monaco team overall was pretty great to watch.Henry was very good in 2000. Obviously he wasn’t their best player since Zidane’s had one of the best individual campaigns in Euros history (and the there was their defense), but I’d say that this was Henry’s best international tournament performance by some margin personally.
But yeah, overall he was always overshadowed by Zidane and surprisingly they’ve never clicked that well (which sounds absurd considering how much their team has won but somehow it’s still true, their combination was less that the sum of its parts).
The things Mbappe gets criticized for would apply even more so to Henry.
Poor records in finals.
Couldn't win at Arsenal as the main man and had to go to a team where he had a lesser role to do so.
His NT career already does not comparable to Mbapp
Griezmann having the 3rd best nt career after Zidane and Platini isn't controversial at all
Griezmann being a better player than Benzema or Henry would be extremely controversial however. I don't even know if Griezmann over Ribéry would be agreed by the majority of football fans.
Griezmann has a bit of a loser reputation due to Atletico and Barca winning league titles right before he joins/after he leaves.
If he'd won one of those two finals in 2016 he'd probably have gone down as the 3rd best french player ever pretty much without question though, woulnd't he? Especially if he scored against Portugal
I meant as the "talisman". In 2000 he was a support player. He had a good tournament in the same way Wiltord had one. It's after 2000 that Henry was supposed to be the main player especially with Zidane injury in 2002 and it wasn't good.
This gets overlooked so much. It doesn't matter if he scores a lot for an individual if the team doesn't.
Haaland is another example of a player scoring a lot, but I believe the team scores less with him.
Griezmann is heavily underrated on this forum. I‘ve always been a fan and his career for the national team is absolutely fantastic. He will also absolutely destroy MLS when he moves there this summer(?).
His failed stint at Barca might hurt him more than the 2016 final loss which nobody blames him for. That and the missed pen in the CL final.
He's not lacking in the national team department but I don't think he has ever reached the heights Henry and Benzema have hit at club level at their peak.
I get the theory, but the numbers don't back it up. The season before Mbappe moved from Monaco, PSG scored 83 goals. His first season with PSG they score 108 goals. Then 105 goals. The Covid season was curtailed but on track to score 96 goals. Then 86, 90, 89 and 81 (but with 34 games). He leaves to join Real and it goes up to 92 goals - so an improvement but fairly average compared to Mbappe's PSG career. And this season PSG are projected to reach 75 goals, their lowest in 15 years.
For Real the figures are similar. We need to go back a few years to when Real had a stronger team and a stronger midfield to reach the point when they scored a lot more than they typically score nowadays. That is the main point I would make is that we are judging the individuals by the outcome of their teams, which isn't right for me.
Yeah, fair enough.