Kylian Mbappé | Real Madrid watch

Real Madrid have too many issues everywhere, really.

The defense is poor because multiple key players have fallen apart physically and are never coming back (Alaba, Mendy, Carvajal, Militao) and the rest are young/inexperienced/not good enough.

The midfield is lacking correct profiles, players have not developed as well as they should because they are constantly shifted out of position, and they're a little too young.

The attack has the Mbappe/Vinicius incompatibilities, and none of the other attackers are particularly capable goalscorers.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Real Madrid have too many issues everywhere, really.

The defense is poor because multiple key players have fallen apart physically and are never coming back (Alaba, Mendy, Carvajal, Militao) and the rest are young/inexperienced/not good enough.

The midfield is lacking correct profiles, players have not developed as well as they should because they are constantly shifted out of position, and they're a little too young.

The attack has the Mbappe/Vinicius incompatibilities, and none of the other attackers are particularly capable goalscorers.
Click to expand...
Do you think the issues are better or worse then before Mbappe arrived, are you more or less coherent now?
 
bosnian_red said:
That wouldn't solve that him and Vini don't fit in the same team, and their midfield isn't balanced.

Mbappe is incredible, an absolute superstar, and yes needs to work harder more consistently to be even better. But Madrid's issues are they built up a team of superstars who don't suit each other. Many teams can have an Mbappe in their system and compete for everything. But he just doesn't work with Vini. They want to do the same things so you won't get the best of either
Click to expand...
Yeah I don’t disagree but that’s not really the point I was addressing. I was speaking in isolation about his work rate. I just can’t fathom why someone wouldn’t just go “hmmm, let me work harder”. It’s one of the easiest things to fix for a professional athlete - in my mind anyway.
 
Ish said:
Yeah I don’t disagree but that’s not really the point I was addressing. I was speaking in isolation about his work rate. I just can’t fathom why someone wouldn’t just go “hmmm, let me work harder”. It’s one of the easiest things to fix for a professional athlete - in my mind anyway.
Click to expand...
But you always will have that group of exception footballers who end up focusing pretty much exclusively on attack and off the ball they are more focused on finding space to kill the team on the counter. That in itself isn't an issue, provided they are good enough with the ball (which he is).

Definitely can't have 2 of those guys though. Madrid have multiple...
 
bosnian_red said:
But you always will have that group of exception footballers who end up focusing pretty much exclusively on attack and off the ball they are more focused on finding space to kill the team on the counter. That in itself isn't an issue, provided they are good enough with the ball (which he is).

Definitely can't have 2 of those guys though. Madrid have multiple...
Click to expand...
Yep, in a sport now mostly dominated by “systems” over the individual, it’s bad enough trying to carry one of those types against the very best, but carrying two is a bit suicidal in this day and age.
 
47 million votes now...isnt he the most productive player in Real?
 
bosnian_red said:
That wouldn't solve that him and Vini don't fit in the same team, and their midfield isn't balanced.

Mbappe is incredible, an absolute superstar, and yes needs to work harder more consistently to be even better. But Madrid's issues are they built up a team of superstars who don't suit each other. Many teams can have an Mbappe in their system and compete for everything. But he just doesn't work with Vini. They want to do the same things so you won't get the best of either
Click to expand...
But isn't the main reason they don't fit because of their attitude/ego? I don't see why they wouldn't be able to work together if they both modified their games to be less individualistic and they both worked harder off the ball for the team
 
Mogget said:
But isn't the main reason they don't fit because of their attitude/ego? I don't see why they wouldn't be able to work together if they both modified their games to be less individualistic and they both worked harder off the ball for the team
Click to expand...
The main reason they don't fit together is they both want to occupy the same parts of the pitch. Even the best teams often times have 1 player in there who can be more focused on picking up positions to counter. It gets a little harder with 2 players.

"Be a little less individualistic"... mbappe is going to go down as one of the best players in history, one of the top goalscorers. The individualism is a great trait to have if you have the talent to back it up, which he does. He problem is both Vini and him want to do the same thing.

Ronaldo is one of the best ever. Do you think a team would work well or bring the best out of him, if you had 2 versions of him? One would play at CF, one at LW, and they'd get in the way of each other and both cry about not being the main man. Neither would do any defensive work and you would have much bigger defensive issues. It's the same thing here. Obviously Mbappe and Vini aren't quite Ronaldo, but they occupy the same areas and honestly, are about as close as you get for current day versions in terms of how they play across different eras of Ronaldo's career. You absolutely can be a world class system team with someone like Mbappe or Vini - just understand that they are the main guys and you can't collect more than 1 of them, and the others need to suit to bring the best out of them.
 
Brilliant player obviously, always hated him though since he left Monaco, beyond arrogance is all I get from him and greedy too, felt the same with Neymar too. Both had the ability to be mentioned amongst all tiem greats....both for clubs at least are no where near though and like Neymar, Mbappes wages are obscene....who would even take him outside of the Saudis?
 
Ish said:
Would Mbappe ever just sit and have an epiphany and go “hey, maybe I should just work a little harder, maybe the problem is partly me?”. It’s interesting because my layman/basic brain and thoughts tell me surely “working hard” is the easiest deficiency to “fix” for a professional athlete? Or what am I missing, besides selfishness and ego etc?
Click to expand...

If you saw the clip from a couple of years ago in which Luis Enrique gives him the hairdryer while he stares unexpressively into space, like a noble scion trying to bear a peasant's complaint, you'd know that this ship has sailed for good.
 
Mogget said:
But isn't the main reason they don't fit because of their attitude/ego? I don't see why they wouldn't be able to work together if they both modified their games to be less individualistic and they both worked harder off the ball for the team
Click to expand...
Because they are fundamentally bad at modifying/adapting their games. Maybe there's an element of ego too, but it's also not unreasonable - they've been two of the very best on world for years playing the way they do, so why change? - the much bigger issue is they are a bit too limited to adapt well
 
bosnian_red said:
The main reason they don't fit together is they both want to occupy the same parts of the pitch. Even the best teams often times have 1 player in there who can be more focused on picking up positions to counter. It gets a little harder with 2 players.

"Be a little less individualistic"... mbappe is going to go down as one of the best players in history, one of the top goalscorers. The individualism is a great trait to have if you have the talent to back it up, which he does. He problem is both Vini and him want to do the same thing.

Ronaldo is one of the best ever. Do you think a team would work well or bring the best out of him, if you had 2 versions of him? One would play at CF, one at LW, and they'd get in the way of each other and both cry about not being the main man. Neither would do any defensive work and you would have much bigger defensive issues. It's the same thing here. Obviously Mbappe and Vini aren't quite Ronaldo, but they occupy the same areas and honestly, are about as close as you get for current day versions in terms of how they play across different eras of Ronaldo's career. You absolutely can be a world class system team with someone like Mbappe or Vini - just understand that they are the main guys and you can't collect more than 1 of them, and the others need to suit to bring the best out of them.
Click to expand...
No but that's my point. They both want to occupy the same parts of the pitch and neither is willing to change that because of their individualism/ego. But is that something that's impossible for either of them to change? Are they just not capable of playing in a different, more team oriented way?

"The individualism is a great trait to have if you have the talent to back it up"

Why is the individualism the great trait here? And not the talent? The way I see it, if either Mbappe or Vini were less selfish players they'd still have the same physical and technical abilities and I personally think it's those footballing abilities which make them such great players, not their attitudes. I personally think if they both changed their style of play to actually accommodate each other, they'd elevate each other's games and look even better than they currently do.
 
giorno said:
Because they are fundamentally bad at modifying/adapting their games. Maybe there's an element of ego too, but it's also not unreasonable - they've been two of the very best on world for years playing the way they do, so why change? - the much bigger issue is they are a bit too limited to adapt well
Click to expand...
Because it's clearly not working right now. Surely they're aware enough to see how the team is performing. And no one is good/old/talented enough to stop learning/improving

giorno said:
Yes
Click to expand...
Fair enough :lol:
 
Mogget said:
Because it's clearly not working right now. Surely they're aware enough to see how the team is performing. And no one is good/old/talented enough to stop learning/improving


Fair enough :lol:
Click to expand...
Not sure how this is a surprise to you? It has been a staple talking point for two years straight now. It’s coming to a head because Real are suffering for it now, and that’s when we get the usual soap operas from them.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
If you saw the clip from a couple of years ago in which Luis Enrique gives him the hairdryer while he stares unexpressively into space, like a noble scion trying to bear a peasant's complaint, you'd know that this ship has sailed for good.
Click to expand...
No surprise PSG started to dominate once they had top players working for the team
 
bosnian_red said:
Ronaldo is one of the best ever. Do you think a team would work well or bring the best out of him, if you had 2 versions of him? One would play at CF, one at LW, and they'd get in the way of each other and both cry about not being the main man.
Click to expand...
A team probably couldn't bring out the best of two Ronaldos.

But I dunno, you might be able to do something with two incredible goalscorers.

An issue with the Mbappe/Vinicius Jr. dilemma is that Vinicius is not a very good goalscorer.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
A team probably couldn't bring out the best of two Ronaldos.

But I dunno, you might be able to do something with two incredible goalscorers.

An issue with the Mbappe/Vinicius Jr. dilemma is that Vinicius is not a very good goalscorer.
Click to expand...
Another issue is that a lot of Vini's playmaking necessitates a striker who is good in the box, which Mbappé isn't
 
Fortitude said:
I’m not talking about better because that’s a non-contest. I’m talking about similarities, and outside of speed, for me, there are so few they don’t warrant being brought up in the same conversation. Mbappe is becoming infamous for incompatibility with teammates and needing to have the entire team built around him from scratch. That’s an indictment on what he has metamorphosed into from his selfless and clever beginnings and likely something that can’t be reversed now due to his enormous ego.

I used to be a huge fan of Mbappe, the younger - the “matured” version is someone I can acknowledge for his lethality, but can also see the headache in accommodating. People talk about needing an elite midfield for him, but skip over the bit where the rest of the attack better be conciliatory and get out of his way, plus his arrival disrupted a winning team and knocked two former key players noses out of joint. It’s not a good sign and it is rightfully pointed out, just as it was literally before he even kicked a ball for Madrid.
Click to expand...

I get it and I agree to some extent, i've been critizing aspects of his game since way long, yet at times we buy to an extreme even our own narratives regarding our view on any player. Damn I've learnt the hard way that with Dembele and Vitinha.

Also time makes us forget issues, Ronnie or Raul, or both was quite a discussion for many periods in Madrid. R9 lack of profesionalism, the lack of grinta and disjoint group of Galácticos in comparison with the previous non Galactic periods etc...there were lots of issues in term of compability, attitude, etc between R9 and others on those days too.

I think at times we go too far with our ideas and at the end of the day like I've said before the lad in question was really close to get the CL in PSG ("worse" if he had won the WC too).

Then the "issue" would have been to try to convince a more than probable massive ammount of people that many of the critics, flaws you, me and many here see in his game were still there, that no matter what he won't or even if he wins in the future, if he stays in the same state as now, he won’t suddenly become Maradona or R9 in terms of talent, etc.
 
Fortitude said:
Not sure how this is a surprise to you? It has been a staple talking point for two years straight now. It’s coming to a head because Real are suffering for it now, and that’s when we get the usual soap operas from them.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised it happened, it seemed obvious it would. I'm probably more surprised that it's still ongoing for so long and they're both still seemingly willing to sacrifice trophies to be the main man
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The attack has the Mbappe/Vinicius incompatibilities, and none of the other attackers are particularly capable goalscorers.
Click to expand...
This, there are just so many evident areas where they either lack talent or a player being there consistently for 10 games in a row.

I really don't get the Madrid fans, it's not like Cristiano was spinning around and pressing everyone. The issue is not Mbappe, the issue is most of the team not being good enough and them having 0 talent upfront unless he scores 40-50 a season.

They're an easy side to play against cause if there's no space for Mbappe and Vini, they're done, they don't have a goal in them. I'm not even going into the defensive side cause that's a bit comical anyway.
 
Mogget said:
I'm not surprised it happened, it seemed obvious it would. I'm probably more surprised that it's still ongoing for so long and they're both still seemingly willing to sacrifice trophies to be the main man
Click to expand...
it's not about being the main man, they just fundamentally lack complementary skillsets. They combine well on the counter, but otherwise it's two players trying to do the same thing in the same spaces - and lacking the means to play differently
 
Fobal said:
I get it and I agree to some extent, i've been critizing aspects of his game since way long, yet at times we buy to an extreme even our own narratives regarding our view on any player. Damn I've learnt the hard way that with Dembele and Vitinha.

Also time makes us forget issues, Ronnie or Raul, or both was quite a discussion for many periods in Madrid. R9 lack of profesionalism, the lack of grinta and disjoint group of Galácticos in comparison with the previous non Galactic periods etc...there were lots of issues in term of compability, attitude, etc between R9 and others on those days too.

I think at times we go too far with our ideas and at the end of the day like I've said before the lad in question was really close to get the CL in PSG ("worse" if he had won the WC too).

Then the "issue" would have been to try to convince a more than probable massive ammount of people that many of the critics, flaws you, me and many here see in his game were still there, that no matter what he won't or even if he wins in the future, if he stays in the same state as now, he won’t suddenly become Maradona or R9 in terms of talent, etc.
Click to expand...
Meh. He is what he is and as I said before, for as much as I am continually critical of him, I’d have him at United in a heartbeat. The caveat is we’d literally build the team around him. If we were already a top team with an established attacking structure and star players? No thanks!

Still, he’ll likely shine at the World Cup and all of this club drama will be forgotten for a while or even have people fawning over Mbappe like there isn’t a problem with how he conducts himself outside of the NT. funnily enough, he’s his best version attitude wise for his country and that ego also takes a backseat, as if he knows not to mess with Deschamps, that, or he respects him enough to do what he asks.
 
romanian_fan said:
This, there are just so many evident areas where they either lack talent or a player being there consistently for 10 games in a row.

I really don't get the Madrid fans, it's not like Cristiano was spinning around and pressing everyone. The issue is not Mbappe, the issue is most of the team not being good enough and them having 0 talent upfront unless he scores 40-50 a season.

They're an easy side to play against cause if there's no space for Mbappe and Vini, they're done, they don't have a goal in them. I'm not even going into the defensive side cause that's a bit comical anyway.
Click to expand...

No, Cristiano did run less than other players too, but i'm fairly certain he ran a decent bit more than Mbappe still, who is just bottom of the barrel when it comes to workrate.

In terms of Mbappe not being a problem, i disagree, part of the reason the rest of the attack struggles is that he doesn't bring others into play very well, he is just hogging up goals Vinicius and Bellingham used to score, i wouldn't exactly call them "0 talent", they were scoring just fine before his arrival.

Thats another part were Cristiano did more, better at combining, better at creating, at the age Mbappe is now.

Now, i don't expect Mbappe to be Cristiano, just saying i don't think his performances are good enough to justify being a luxury player.
 
Another massive ego who lacks professionalism. It's funny really, the team he left are better than ever, proving no player is bigger than the club. It's a team sport after all and the team should always come first
 
Fortitude said:
Do you think the issues are better or worse then before Mbappe arrived, are you more or less coherent now?
Click to expand...
Before Mbappe arrived, Kroos, Joselu and Nacho, who all had either very good or good performances, were in the squad, and Bellingham played in a way more natural position for his skillset. Also, Mendy wasn't injured all the time and Carvajal was still a top RB. Rodrygo was not injured as well.

Despite the lack of an elite goalscorer, I believe it was more coherent back then.
 
giorno said:
Because they are fundamentally bad at modifying/adapting their games. Maybe there's an element of ego too, but it's also not unreasonable - they've been two of the very best on world for years playing the way they do, so why change? - the much bigger issue is they are a bit too limited to adapt well
Click to expand...

It’s hard to imagine a setup where they can truly coexist at their best. Ultimately, it comes down to Mbappé because he’s the one who has played across all three positions in the front line throughout his career, while Vini has pretty much only operated off the left.

Shifting either of them to the right wing feels like too drastic a change. Mbappé could probably manage it since he started his career there, but it would almost certainly reduce his goal output, and I doubt that’s something he’d be willing to sacrifice.

At the same time, we already know he doesn’t enjoy playing as the lone CF.

So what’s the solution? Go back to the 22/23 diamond? Maybe, but do Real currently have the midfielder profile to make that system work consistently.

Another option is converting Vini into more of an AM role. But can he actually adapt the way Neymar did?
 
People used to say that Ronaldo was too flawed a player to control games with him in the team against the likes of barca, Bayern and dortmund as he didnt track back. People also used to say he was too selfish and reliant on service. I dont think ozil was the best defensively either. I think he used to get bypassed in mf too easily.

It could work out yet for mbappe and vinicius. I'm not sure current mourinho is the answer though. Sadly prime mourinho, ancelotti and Zidane could perhaps make it work if given time and control. Guardiola too but he wouldn't go to madrid.
 
Ish said:
Would Mbappe ever just sit and have an epiphany and go “hey, maybe I should just work a little harder, maybe the problem is partly me?”. It’s interesting because my layman/basic brain and thoughts tell me surely “working hard” is the easiest deficiency to “fix” for a professional athlete? Or what am I missing, besides selfishness and ego etc?
Click to expand...
We should be careful about framing it as 'laziness,' or 'not working hard.' He is one of the best footballers in the world, I guarantee you he has worked about a million times harder throughout his life and career than every single person on this forum.

Rather, it is a question of ego, status and numbers. In his mind, his job is to score goals, and he feels he should preserve 100% of his energy for that. He also feels that he knows better than a coach what positions he needs to be in to score those goals.

Energetic defensive work is very tiring, and if he was to engage in that wholesale, he might have to sacrifice some of his numbers.

He would rather not do that but instead have others run for him. This is a problem at his club sides, because they've often had other forward players with similar mentalities.
 
Some say its one or the other, but I don't really want either at the club, sell them both i'd say.

Vini's ego is largely responsible for Xabi's exit, and for that, he needs to go.

Mbappe disrupted the team, doesn't have a real position, doesn't track back.

Sell both, start over.

Wishful thinking, both are probably still here come fall.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
We should be careful about framing it as 'laziness,' or 'not working hard.' He is one of the best footballers in the world, I guarantee you he has worked about a million times harder throughout his life and career than every single person on this forum.

Rather, it is a question of ego, status and numbers. In his mind, his job is to score goals, and he feels he should preserve 100% of his energy for that. He also feels that he knows better than a coach what positions he needs to be in to score those goals.

Energetic defensive work is very tiring, and if he was to engage in that wholesale, he might have to sacrifice some of his numbers.

He would rather not do that but instead have others run for him. This is a problem at his club sides, because they've often had other forward players with similar mentalities.
Click to expand...
I never called him lazy and of course these professions athletes have sacrificed years and years to perfect their skill. Hence I posed the question: if a coach like Enrique asks you to work a bit harder for the team, why wouldn’t you? It should be one of the “simpler” fixes IMO for a professional athlete. It’s just puzzling, that’s all. And as you say, probably a lot to do with ego and individualism etc.
 
Morty_ said:
Some say its one or the other, but I don't really want either at the club, sell them both i'd say.

Vini's ego is largely responsible for Xabi's exit, and for that, he needs to go.

Mbappe disrupted the team, doesn't have a real position, doesn't track back.

Sell both, start over.

Wishful thinking, both are probably still here come fall.
Click to expand...
I’d guess the big challenge is who do you sell them who can afford their transfer fee and wage combined? You have perhaps 2-3 clubs who could afford them and one of them (PSG) won’t sign either. Probably leaves you with city and maybe Chelsea or else Saudi.
 
Ish said:
I’d guess the big challenge is who do you sell them who can afford their transfer fee and wage combined? You have perhaps 2-3 clubs who could afford them and one of them (PSG) won’t sign either. Probably leaves you with city and maybe Chelsea or else Saudi.
Click to expand...

Vini's contract is running short, so he is out within a year if he doesn't renew, might be easier to convince him to leave somewhere.

Mbappe is set for the long haul though, can't see him being sold anytime soon.

Wishful thinking, as said.
 
Morty_ said:
Vini's contract is running short, so he is out within a year if he doesn't renew, might be easier to convince him to leave somewhere.

Mbappe is set for the long haul though, can't see him being sold anytime soon.

Wishful thinking, as said.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a few said it before you signed him but you didn’t really need Mbappe (or needed to cash in on Vini). It seemed a difficult duo to match for any manager. But Perez seemed to have an obsession with signing Mbappe, even when that first deal fell through when Mbappe changed his mind after PSG offered him an insane amount of money to extend. But yeah, will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
 
The problem with Vini and Mpappe is not that they cannot play together; they have played together .It is that none of them is ready to make a personal sacrifice for the greater good of the team. There was a time Real had Ozil, Benzema, Bale, and CR7 in attack. They made a bit of a sacrifice for CR7 to shine.

Real may have to sell at least one of them, but they are not affordable to most teams, even the teams that can afford them are not in Europe, and even the ones in Europe will not be queueing up to sign them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.