Kylian Mbappe | PSG

[Scroto Baggins]

I don't buy the Aguero and Kane hype. They're fine strikers, but not elite - which consists of Cristiano, Lewandowski, Suarez, Benzema, Mbappe and obviously Messi (albeit not a striker per se).

Kane is better than Benzema in just about any metric you can conjure up, yet you say he is hyped and list Benzema as elite? I mean Benzema is a good striker and all don't get me wrong, but I would put him next to the Didier Drogba's of the world, not the Lewandowski's or Suarez's.
Karim Benzema(Real Madrid) appearances 349 goals scored 169 - 0.48 gpg
CL appearances 123 goals scored 65 - 0.52 gpg

Harry Kane(Norwich - Tottenham) appearances 207 goals scored 143 - 0.69 gpg
CL appearances 24 goals scored 20 - 0.83 gpg

Messi and Cristiano are not really strikers so a tough comparison to make. That, and they are in a league of their own compared to everyone else. Suarez yes, Lewandowski yes, Mbappe not yet, may well be however.

 

[JPRouve]

Those goals he doesn't score in the final game are purely down to experience. Had he played against decent opposition, he'd have buried those.

Your mind and body can only learn from new challenges. In his league, if he played like he did against Bayern, he'd have scored 2 at least because those players wouldn't have been able to cope with his abilities. It's a matter of adjusting.

Had he played against Bayern twice this year before, he'd have the beating of those defenders.

It has nothing to do with the league, he was simply not sharp enough in terms of finishing after barely playing football since March. And he beat those Bayern defenders easily and repeatedly.

 

[Harry190]

It has nothing to do with the league, he was simply not sharp enough in terms of finishing after barely playing football since March. And he beat those Bayern defenders easily and repeatedly.

I don't think we disagree on his ability, but I do with regards to how to get the best out of him. You can only elevate yourself by playing against tough opposition frequently. He ultimately, did not beat them.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Kane is better than Benzema in just about any metric you can conjure up, yet you say he is hyped and list Benzema as elite? I mean Benzema is a good striker and all don't get me wrong, but I would put him next to the Didier Drogba's of the world, not the Lewandowski's or Suarez's.
Karim Benzema(Real Madrid) appearances 349 goals scored 169 - 0.48 gpg
CL appearances 123 goals scored 65 - 0.52 gpg

Harry Kane(Norwich - Tottenham) appearances 207 goals scored 143 - 0.69 gpg
CL appearances 24 goals scored 20 - 0.83 gpg

Messi and Cristiano are not really strikers so a tough comparison to make. That, and they are in a league of their own compared to everyone else. Suarez yes, Lewandowski yes, Mbappe not yet, may well be however.

Use goal/assist per minute. Benzema spent a decade being subbed off at the 70th minute because Ronaldo would never ever get taken out.

And no Benzema is ahead of Kane overall. Comparing their overall play is laughable Kane is nowhere near as technically gifted or talented. Benzema is only a number 9 on a shirt. He drops down and creates like a midfielder all the time.

 

[Suedesi]

Kane is better than Benzema in just about any metric you can conjure up, yet you say he is hyped and list Benzema as elite? I mean Benzema is a good striker and all don't get me wrong, but I would put him next to the Didier Drogba's of the world, not the Lewandowski's or Suarez's.
Karim Benzema(Real Madrid) appearances 349 goals scored 169 - 0.48 gpg
CL appearances 123 goals scored 65 - 0.52 gpg

Harry Kane(Norwich - Tottenham) appearances 207 goals scored 143 - 0.69 gpg
CL appearances 24 goals scored 20 - 0.83 gpg

Messi and Cristiano are not really strikers so a tough comparison to make. That, and they are in a league of their own compared to everyone else. Suarez yes, Lewandowski yes, Mbappe not yet, may well be however.

Stick to stats, I'll stick to watching football.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think we disagree on his ability, but I do with regards to how to get the best out of him. You can only elevate yourself by playing against tough opposition frequently. He ultimately, did not beat them.

Bayern, arguably the best team in the world, could barely handle him and only his finishing let him down. That after barely playing during the last 5 months and being mainly injured in the last month. You are making little sense when you bring the final into it and Mbappé has improved every years since his debute. Of course there is a point where it will be good for him to leave for a better club but that's mainly because PSG are poorly run not due to the league otherwise Bayern players would never improve.

 

[Gio]

Those goals he doesn't score in the final game are purely down to experience. Had he played against decent opposition, he'd have buried those.

Your mind and body can only learn from new challenges. In his league, if he played like he did against Bayern, he'd have scored 2 at least because those players wouldn't have been able to cope with his abilities. It's a matter of adjusting.

Had he played against Bayern twice this year before, he'd have the beating of those defenders.

Think you’re forgetting his injury, resultant lack of match sharpness and disrupted rhythm that is fatal to strikers, as we see time and time again. His record in the CL is 35 goals and assists in 35 games which is just as good as his domestic record. And he has multiple defence-dismantling performances against top sides already in his short career.

 

[Libano]

Kane is better than Benzema in just about any metric you can conjure up, yet you say he is hyped and list Benzema as elite? I mean Benzema is a good striker and all don't get me wrong, but I would put him next to the Didier Drogba's of the world, not the Lewandowski's or Suarez's.
Karim Benzema(Real Madrid) appearances 349 goals scored 169 - 0.48 gpg
CL appearances 123 goals scored 65 - 0.52 gpg

Harry Kane(Norwich - Tottenham) appearances 207 goals scored 143 - 0.69 gpg
CL appearances 24 goals scored 20 - 0.83 gpg

Messi and Cristiano are not really strikers so a tough comparison to make. That, and they are in a league of their own compared to everyone else. Suarez yes, Lewandowski yes, Mbappe not yet, may well be however.

It would be fair to deduct penalties from those stats. Also, Kane is Tottenham's go-to man, Benzema is one of many goal-scoring options in Madrid. Especially during the Ronaldo days.

 

[Harry190]

Bayern, arguably the best team in the world, could barely handle him and only his finishing let him down. That after barely playing during the last 5 months and being mainly injured in the last month. You are making little sense when you bring the final into it and Mbappé has improved every years since his debute. Of course there is a point where it will be good for him to leave for a better club but that's mainly because PSG are poorly run not due to the league otherwise Bayern players would never improve.

Faut pas déconner non plus. The Bundesliga has higher calibre opposition. Barely handle him still means handling him. In no shape or form is it a criticism of Mbappe's abilities. It's a comment on the circumstances within which he performs. Those chances he created, he'd finish them in the league. He wasn't off-pace, at all in the game, the opposing players were just on a different level. If he plays against this level of opposition more frequently during the season, it'd make him better. It's tiny margins we're talking about here.

 

[roonster09]

Kane is better than Benzema in just about any metric you can conjure up, yet you say he is hyped and list Benzema as elite? I mean Benzema is a good striker and all don't get me wrong, but I would put him next to the Didier Drogba's of the world, not the Lewandowski's or Suarez's.
Karim Benzema(Real Madrid) appearances 349 goals scored 169 - 0.48 gpg
CL appearances 123 goals scored 65 - 0.52 gpg

Harry Kane(Norwich - Tottenham) appearances 207 goals scored 143 - 0.69 gpg
CL appearances 24 goals scored 20 - 0.83 gpg

Messi and Cristiano are not really strikers so a tough comparison to make. That, and they are in a league of their own compared to everyone else. Suarez yes, Lewandowski yes, Mbappe not yet, may well be however.

League and CL

	Games	Mins	Goals	Assists	Non Penalty Goals	Mins per G+A	Mins per Non Pen G+A
Kane	210​	17725​	143​	24​	123​	106.14​	120.58​
Benzema	349​	24482​	169​	95​	159​	92.73​	96.39​
	Games	Mins	Goals	Assists	Non Penalty Goals	Mins per G+A	Mins per Non Pen G+A
Kane	24​	2088​	20​	3​	17​	90.78​	104.40​
Benzema	120​	8429​	65​	27​	65​	91.62​	91.62​

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Stick to stats, I'll stick to watching football.

Well for discussion we need some sort of conclusive evidence as a counterpoint to the contention I put forth. I am at least providing some info for discussion. Not just flippantly dismissing Benzema off hand.

A point of contention is worthless unless you have something to back it up for discussion in an open public forum. And no I do not feel inclined to take yours, or anyone else's point of view at face value without some sort of supporting indication as to why that view exists. Other people make some good arguments, Kane takes the penalties for Spurs, Benzema is more in a creative role and his no.9 is not a true indication of his role at RM, etc.

Mbappe is better than Messi or Ronaldo at their peak, anyone with eyes can see that. If you have watched Mbappe, you would know, you clearly havnt seen enough of him. See anything wrong with that statement? Should I have to provide testimony to back up that statement? I mean if questioned I could say 'I will stick to watching football thanks.'

It would be fair to deduct penalties from those stats. Also, Kane is Tottenham's go-to man, Benzema is one of many goal-scoring options in Madrid. Especially during the Ronaldo days.

Well my main point was about Aguero not Kane, sort of got side tracked. And yes this is true, Kane is the main penalty taker for Spurs, and he is the main striker at Spurs, but these sort of stats are harder to quantify, someone has to take the penalties no? Pogba gets a lot of stick on here because he was the main penalty taker for a while, which padded out his goals scored stats. But again, someone has to step up and take the penalties.

Benzema being more of a creative player is really interesting, rather than an out and out striker, you could say look at assists, but then, Kane isnt there to be a provider, he is there to lead the line and bang in goals. So clearly Benzema is going to have more assists, especially given he plays for RM and their xG90 and Sh90 are going to bury Spurs'. It's the same sort of nebulous argument like, 'Well Kane plays for Spurs who are a rubbish team compared to the likes of the RM's, Bayern's, City's, etc'. A true statement, but how do you quantify that argument? Benzema's assists are actually very good, given I am assuming a lot of them were for Ronaldo. He has six to Kane's three in the CL that Kane has been in.

As for goals per minute in the CL that can be done, but Kane has not played a lot of CL, so there is not enough data to form a solid base imo. Stats need a large sample size to weed out anomalies in performance data.
KANE
16/17 goal every 131.5min
17/18 goal every 85.2min
18/19 goal every 155.6min
19/20 goal every 75min
goal every 111mins

Benzema has a goal every 138mins, so accounting for him being subbed, or injured etc.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

League and CL

	Games	Mins	Goals	Assists	Non Penalty Goals	Mins per G+A	Mins per Non Pen G+A
Kane	210​	17725​	143​	24​	123​	106.14​	120.58​
Benzema	349​	24482​	169​	95​	159​	92.73​	96.39​
	Games	Mins	Goals	Assists	Non Penalty Goals	Mins per G+A	Mins per Non Pen G+A
Kane	24​	2088​	20​	3​	17​	90.78​	104.40​
Benzema	120​	8429​	65​	27​	65​	91.62​	91.62​

Interesting, id like a larger breakdown of the stats with xG for RM versus Spurs, id expect RM to truly bury Spurs here. But with assists Benzema is really good, I was looking just at goals scored, being they are strikers. But as someone mentioned his role at Madrid was to drop into midfield and play provider a lot of the time for the likes of Ronaldo. Kane is just expected to lead the line and bang in goals at Spurs.

Taking assists away you get Benzema - 144gpm Kane - 123gpm

 

[roonster09]

Interesting, id like a larger breakdown of the stats with xG for RM versus Spurs, id expect RM to truly bury Spurs here. But with assists Benzema is really good, I was looking just at goals scored, being they are strikers. But as someone mentioned his role at Madrid was to drop into midfield and play provider a lot of the time for the likes of Ronaldo. Kane is just expected to lead the line and bang in goals at Spurs.

Taking assists away you get Benzema - 144gpm Kane - 123gpm

Benzema played alongside Ronaldo almost all his career which means he was never primary goal scorer. Ronaldo obviously dominates goal scoring charts, Benzema was perfect link player for him. Assists are important too as they contribute to goals as directly as much as goals column.

Kane won't be primary penalty taker if he played alongside Ronaldo. Their Non penalty goals per min
Kane - 144 mins in league and 122 mins in CL
Benzema - 153 in league and 129 mins in CL.

Of course there will be so many other factors with so many ifs and buts. IMO Benzema is better player and striker.

 

[JPRouve]

Faut pas déconner non plus. The Bundesliga has higher calibre opposition. Barely handle him still means handling him. In no shape or form is it a criticism of Mbappe's abilities. It's a comment on the circumstances within which he performs. Those chances he created, he'd finish them in the league. He wasn't off-pace, at all in the game, the opposing players were just on a different level. If he plays against this level of opposition more frequently during the season, it'd make him better. It's tiny margins we're talking about here.

It was a CL final and he wasn't out of his depth despite barely playing football since March, he was coming back from injury and totally at the level of what is seen as the best team in the world, only his finishing let him down. So it makes zero sense to try to bring the leagues into it, a week earlier Gnabry was the king of the world against Barcelona and during the final he did nothing going forward but I don't see anyone suggest that it had anything to do with the respective leagues. And if he wsasn't off-pace then you have no point, Bayern as a whole have better players, they have a better team at the exception of Neymar and Mbappé, if you want to make the point that he should leave PSG and join better players in an other team then I agree, because I don't trust PSG do build a team correctly but don't bring the leagues the way you did, it makes no sense in that particular context because we are not talking about a player that was off-pace even though he was still in his recovery phase.

 

[Escobar]

So a young player is not having his best game in a CL final.... it happens, you know. Doesn't change the fact that he is amazingly talented. But like Neymar, I have the feeling that the development is stuck at a club like PSG

 

[JPRouve]

So a young player is not having his best game in a CL final.... it happens, you know. Doesn't change the fact that he is amazingly talented. But like Neymar, I have the feeling that the development is stuck at a club like PSG

Mbappé has developed at PSG, he has improved his playmaking abilities and is now able to often create for others, his passing and vision have also improved.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Some of the stuff said in this thread is mind-boggling.

"Mbappe doesn't make runs off the ball nor is he good at it."

"Mbappe was a level below in the CL final."

Like come on...

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Benzema played alongside Ronaldo almost all his career which means he was never primary goal scorer. Ronaldo obviously dominates goal scoring charts, Benzema was perfect link player for him. Assists are important too as they contribute to goals as directly as much as goals column.

Kane won't be primary penalty taker if he played alongside Ronaldo. Their Non penalty goals per min
Kane - 144 mins in league and 122 mins in CL
Benzema - 153 in league and 129 mins in CL.

Of course there will be so many other factors with so many ifs and buts. IMO Benzema is better player and striker.

I agree it is hard to quantify nebulous arguments like " Well Kane plays for Spurs who are a rubbish team compared to the likes of the RM's, Bayern's, City's, etc'. With any sort of effective stats. I always thought the main 'playmaker' for RM was Ozil and then Isco taking over once Ozil left.

On the assists thing, I kind of agree, although a lot of the time you can go back to a pass or play from a deeper laying midfield position or wider area that set the goal in motion. It was one of those things someone like a Modric was known for but you never see his name in the assist column.

 

[kouroux]

Mbappé has developed at PSG, he has improved his playmaking abilities and is now able to often create for others, his passing and vision have also improved.

Yes, I just feel like to reach that next level, leaving PSG and playing in a better league is compulsory for him. Not easy to sell him in the current context.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes, I just feel like to reach that next level, leaving PSG and playing in a better league is compulsory for him. Not easy to sell him in the current context.

I would say that he needs to be in a better club somewhere where his teammates will push him, where the culture of the club is less forgiving for players of his caliber, my fear is that he becomes bigger than the club which I believe is always a bad thing for players. And it's on the training ground that you improve during the week, not the 3 or 4 actually tough games that you may play during a league season because lets be honest not all games against top teams are quality games where you are pushed, most are bang average games due to players missing games or not being in form.

 

[kouroux]

I would say that he needs to be in a better club somewhere where his teammates will push him, where the culture of the club is less forgiving for players of his caliber, my fear is that he becomes bigger than the club which I believe is always a bad thing for players. And it's on the training ground that you improve during the week, not the 3 or 4 actually tough games that you may play during a league season because lets be honest not all games against top teams are quality games where you are pushed, most are bang average games due to players missing games or not being in form.

PSG will never become this club, at least not in the near future, therefore he has to leave France at some point.

 

[JPRouve]

PSG will never become this club, at least not in the near future, therefore he has to leave France at some point.

I agree, that's the point that I'm making.

 

[BBRBB]

Yes, I just feel like to reach that next level, leaving PSG and playing in a better league is compulsory for him. Not easy to sell him in the current context.

Sure, like Martial, Dembélé or Coman who developed so much better going abroad.

 

[kouroux]

Sure, like Martial, Dembélé or Coman who developed so much better going abroad.

They all have become better players indeed. Well you can argue Dembele has been ruined by injuries but the other 2 have without a doubt.
I like the Ligue 1 but there is no doubt, at a certain point, the most talented players have to leave to improve

 

[BBRBB]

They all have become better players indeed. Well you can argue Dembele has been ruined by injuries but the other 2 have without a doubt.
I like the Ligue 1 but there is no doubt, at a certain point, the most talented players have to leave to improve

Dembélé is worse than he was at Rennes. Martial has barely improved since Monaco, at least his development is very disappointing. Coman's game still has very little depth and just relies on his natural ability.

Then you have Mbappé who's been smarter with his career choices, improves steadily and is on his way to the top.

 

[kouroux]

Dembélé is worse than he was at Rennes. Martial has barely improved since Monaco, at least his development is very disappointing. Coman's game still has very little depth and just relies on his natural ability.

Then you have Mbappé who's been smarter with his career choices, improves steadily and is on his way to the top.

Barely improved his Monaco days you say, I wonder what kinda herb you're smoking. They're all better, how much is a matter of appreciation but there is no way they're at the same level.

 

[Sayros]

I would say that he needs to be in a better club somewhere where his teammates will push him, where the culture of the club is less forgiving for players of his caliber, my fear is that he becomes bigger than the club which I believe is always a bad thing for players. And it's on the training ground that you improve during the week, not the 3 or 4 actually tough games that you may play during a league season because lets be honest not all games against top teams are quality games where you are pushed, most are bang average games due to players missing games or not being in form.

I agree and want Mbappe to leave in the near future, but I'm not worried about him progressing. You know just as well as I do that he's made progress in the three seasons at PSG and will continue to do so. I don't think Mbappe needs anybody to push him, he has an inner-drive to become the best regardless of the circumstances and he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to put his foot off the gas. The fact that he came back from that injury this quickly tells me everything I need to know about his drive if I didn't know it already.

His finishing was not there against Bayern, he put himself in the right position but it's hard to forgive that back-pass to Neuer, you'd kill to have an opportunity like that in the final of a champion's league. I'm trying to be the eternal silver-lining guy with him and will say it could be a good thing for his long-term development. If PSG wins this CL, he's basically won everything there is to win as a professional at 21 outside of the Euro. To not only lose a final, but being responsible in part for the loss is going to be a huge log in the fire for his motivation to come back even stronger.

I'm excited to see how things play out, and I have no doubts that he will be constantly in the running for best player in the world soon, but I doubt he will be recognized as such unless he leaves Ligue 1 in the near future.

 

[Suedesi]

Well for discussion we need some sort of conclusive evidence as a counterpoint to the contention I put forth. I am at least providing some info for discussion. Not just flippantly dismissing Benzema off hand.

A point of contention is worthless unless you have something to back it up for discussion in an open public forum. And no I do not feel inclined to take yours, or anyone else's point of view at face value without some sort of supporting indication as to why that view exists. Other people make some good arguments, Kane takes the penalties for Spurs, Benzema is more in a creative role and his no.9 is not a true indication of his role at RM, etc.

Mbappe is better than Messi or Ronaldo at their peak, anyone with eyes can see that. If you have watched Mbappe, you would know, you clearly havnt seen enough of him. See anything wrong with that statement? Should I have to provide testimony to back up that statement? I mean if questioned I could say 'I will stick to watching football thanks.'



Well my main point was about Aguero not Kane, sort of got side tracked. And yes this is true, Kane is the main penalty taker for Spurs, and he is the main striker at Spurs, but these sort of stats are harder to quantify, someone has to take the penalties no? Pogba gets a lot of stick on here because he was the main penalty taker for a while, which padded out his goals scored stats. But again, someone has to step up and take the penalties.

Benzema being more of a creative player is really interesting, rather than an out and out striker, you could say look at assists, but then, Kane isnt there to be a provider, he is there to lead the line and bang in goals. So clearly Benzema is going to have more assists, especially given he plays for RM and their xG90 and Sh90 are going to bury Spurs'. It's the same sort of nebulous argument like, 'Well Kane plays for Spurs who are a rubbish team compared to the likes of the RM's, Bayern's, City's, etc'. A true statement, but how do you quantify that argument? Benzema's assists are actually very good, given I am assuming a lot of them were for Ronaldo. He has six to Kane's three in the CL that Kane has been in.

As for goals per minute in the CL that can be done, but Kane has not played a lot of CL, so there is not enough data to form a solid base imo. Stats need a large sample size to weed out anomalies in performance data.
KANE
16/17 goal every 131.5min
17/18 goal every 85.2min
18/19 goal every 155.6min
19/20 goal every 75min
goal every 111mins

Benzema has a goal every 138mins, so accounting for him being subbed, or injured etc.

You don't need to write an essay to make a point.

Benzema has been playing second fiddle to Ronaldo for 9 years so his goal numbers are going to look worse off. Look at goals, they jump from 5 a season when Ronaldo was last there to 21 over the last couple of seasons with Benzema deployed as the main striker. And if you look at G+A stats as others have pointed out, his numbers are superior to Kane's.

Overall play, Benzema is miles ahead of Kane. He's got a higher technical ceiling than Kane has ever shown -watch him receiving the ball on the half turn before waltzing between United's defense and firing a torpedo past VDS. This is when we won the CL as well and had a ridiculous defense / defensive record.

Or you can take a look at him setting up this goal in a CL semifinal against the best defense in the world. Incidentally that play won't count as either a goal or an assist in the stat books, but those who watched the game will know that it was the move that killed Atletico's comeback in a CL semifinal. This is what I mean when I say stick to stats, I'll stick to watching football.

Look - Kane is a great striker, but you don't spend a decade+ at Real Madrid winning 4 CL unless you're top top class.

I leave you with this, enjoy:

 

[Oly Francis]

I would say that he needs to be in a better club somewhere where his teammates will push him, where the culture of the club is less forgiving for players of his caliber, my fear is that he becomes bigger than the club which I believe is always a bad thing for players. And it's on the training ground that you improve during the week, not the 3 or 4 actually tough games that you may play during a league season because lets be honest not all games against top teams are quality games where you are pushed, most are bang average games due to players missing games or not being in form.

I'm not sure there's many clubs that offers that nowadays tbh. It's all up to the players. Real Madrid had Zidane and Ramos and it didn't prevent Bale from golfing or Asensio/Isco for partying far too much. Barcelona had Piqué and Messi, it didn't prevent Dembele from playing Playstation until 4am or Suarez from gaining weight.
What could help Mbappé though is leaving France because since he's our wonder boy, medias/supporters will always be more lenient. Neymar will always be more criticized with similar performances for exemple.

 

[Drygon]

You don't need to write an essay to make a point.

Benzema has been playing second fiddle to Ronaldo for 9 years so his goal numbers are going to look worse off.

I'd even go as far as saying Benzema played 3rd fiddle to Cristiano AND Prime Bale for a few years.

Which makes Benzema's numbers look even much more impressive.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Dembélé is worse than he was at Rennes. Martial has barely improved since Monaco, at least his development is very disappointing. Coman's game still has very little depth and just relies on his natural ability.

Then you have Mbappé who's been smarter with his career choices, improves steadily and is on his way to the top.

No chance whatsoever you're looking at that through your PSG tinted glasses. The fact you feel Martial has "barely improved" since Monaco shows you either haven't been watching him, or aren't objective whatsoever.

 

[passing-wind]

Dembélé is worse than he was at Rennes. Martial has barely improved since Monaco, at least his development is very disappointing. Coman's game still has very little depth and just relies on his natural ability.

Then you have Mbappé who's been smarter with his career choices, improves steadily and is on his way to the top.

That's an absolute pile of rubbish Mbappe is too big of a character at PSG due to how small the club is and or the fact he's the poster boy in French football. He needs a team where there's more intensity / pressure and competitiveness. Inevitably he'll end up in Spain, can't see him in the Premier League.

 

[JPRouve]

That's an absolute pile of rubbish Mbappe is too big of a character at PSG due to how small the club is. He needs a team where there's more intensity / pressure and competitiveness.

PSG aren't a small club and it's not the issue. The issue is that they mismanaged the squad and lost all the leadership that they had in Thiago Motta, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic, Matuidi and even Camara. Today the leaders are by default Mbappé and Neymar, I personally don't think that it's a good thing when there is no one close to them in the team and I don't trust the club to fix that issue. Even someone like Thiago Silva who wasn't a great leader is gone.

 

[11101]

I would say that he needs to be in a better club somewhere where his teammates will push him, where the culture of the club is less forgiving for players of his caliber, my fear is that he becomes bigger than the club which I believe is always a bad thing for players. And it's on the training ground that you improve during the week, not the 3 or 4 actually tough games that you may play during a league season because lets be honest not all games against top teams are quality games where you are pushed, most are bang average games due to players missing games or not being in form.

That last bit is not right. You learn what to do on the training ground but there is no substitute for real games to learn how to apply it and improve your game, and the tougher the opposition the better. You can learn a routine in training where you have a second or two to make a pass and it works against Metz or St Etienne, but against Bayern with half a second and no space is totally different, and there's no way to replicate that without playing that calibre of opposition.

It's the same in any sport, and France is so far below the top leagues it's becoming an issue for Mbappe. He doesn't get to hone his technique and control for a scoring opportunity in France because he always has enough space and time, and when he comes up against top teams his touch is that little bit looser than it could be and the opportunity is gone.

 

[JPRouve]

That last bit is not right. You learn what to do on the training ground but there is no substitute for real games to learn how to apply it and improve your game, and the tougher the opposition the better. You can learn a routine in training where you have a second or two to make a pass and it works against Metz or St Etienne, but against Bayern with half a second and no space is totally different, and there's no way to replicate that without playing that calibre of opposition.

It's the same in any sport, and France is so far below the top leagues it's becoming an issue for Mbappe. He doesn't get to hone his technique and control for a scoring opportunity in France because he always has enough space and time, and when he comes up against top teams his touch is that little bit looser than it could be and the opportunity is gone.

And it has nothing to do with the league but CL experience because that top level football only exist in the CL knockout phases. Otherwise Bayern wouldn't be doing what they do, it's not as if Dortmund were any better than Lyon, Monaco(until 2018) or even Lille in the last 5 years and the other teams are no better either. And Mbappé has honed his technique just well while playing in Ligue 1 and being one of the best attackers in CL.

But then it's always the same story, you would think that there is only Metz or St Etienne in Ligue 1 while there is only games against the likes of Bayern in other leagues.

 

[AltiUn]

Madness in this thread. He is 21 had a bad game and people are calling him a fraud ? He was poor but he is a phenomenal player. My guess is the people here giving him stick are the same saying Rashford is young and has plenty time to develop when he has a poor game ?

No, they're the same ones saying Rashford is shit as well.

 

[11101]

And it has nothing to do with the league but CL experience because that top level football only exist in the CL knockout phases. Otherwise Bayern wouldn't be doing what they do, it's not as if Dortmund were any better than Lyon, Monaco(until 2018) or even Lille in the last 5 years and the other teams are no better either. And Mbappé has honed his technique just well while playing in Ligue 1 and being one of the best attackers in CL.

But then it's always the same story, you would think that there is only Metz or St Etienne in Ligue 1 while there is only games against the likes of Bayern in other leagues.

Of course the league matters. It's not only that Ligue 1 is poor, it's that PSG are so much better than everybody else. If he played in Spain or England, he would play 20 games a season tougher than anything he faces in France.

 

[Oly Francis]

It's the same in any sport, and France is so far below the top leagues it's becoming an issue for Mbappe. He doesn't get to hone his technique and control for a scoring opportunity in France because he always has enough space and time, and when he comes up against top teams his touch is that little bit looser than it could be and the opportunity is gone.

You obviously don't know much about Ligue 1 it's actually the other way around. Ligue 1 teams have poor offenses and only a couple of coaches actually try something against PSG but defensively it's usually really decent, Mbappé would actually have more space and time in most league since a lot of teams play against PSG in Ligue 1 with the whole double decker bus parked.

 

[BBRBB]

No chance whatsoever you're looking at that through your PSG tinted glasses. The fact you feel Martial has "barely improved" since Monaco shows you either haven't been watching him, or aren't objective whatsoever.

Martial's first few games at MU are where he's looked the best to me.
There's a reason why he's disappeared from everyone's radar.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Martial's first few games at MU are where he's looked the best to me.
There's a reason why he's disappeared from everyone's radar.

So we've settled that, you don't watch him.