La Liga 2019/20

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,836
Supports
Barcelona
@Daysleeper - Still convinced by this clown? Shambles appointment.
Yes. Didn’t agree with his starting XI but we were actually trying to create chances and I do think we were definitely the better team. We have zero squad depth. This manager is in a brutal position right now. No squad depth, no winter purchases from this horrible board, and we can’t finish to save our lives

Setien is far from the issue, this team would’ve struggled as much if Valverde was still here
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
19,859
Dumb post. Barca created a lot of chances today but were woeful in finishing. I didn’t agree with his starting XI but maybe the board should have actually bought someone over the winter window
Setien was a twitter nerds dream. Doesn’t have it in actual application. Sorry.
 

Cait Sith

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
1,267
Barely beat 10 men Granada at home 1-0.
Ripped apart by Valencia.
Horror show against 3rd division Ibiza.
Barely beat Levante at home and almost lost control towards the end.
Out of the Cup before even reaching the semis for the first time in 10 years.

Going well so far for tiki taka master Setien.
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,836
Supports
Barcelona
Barely beat 10 men Granada at home 1-0.
Ripped apart by Valencia.
Horror show against 3rd division Ibiza.
Barely beat Levante at home and almost lost control towards the end.
Out of the Cup before even reaching the semis for the first time in 10 years.

Going well so far for tiki taka master Setien.
We outplayed Bilbao, looked MUCH better than we did when Valverde was there and our crappy performance in their stadium to start the season.

We have zero squad depth, injuries, and were very unlucky not to win today. Feel much better about this game than I did earlier in the year when we lost.
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
31,110
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
Barely beat 10 men Granada at home 1-0.
Ripped apart by Valencia.
Horror show against 3rd division Ibiza.
Barely beat Levante at home and almost lost control towards the end.
Out of the Cup before even reaching the semis for the first time in 10 years.

Going well so far for tiki taka master Setien.
They were quite comfortable against Levante with their plethora of chances and their 70% possession with no threat of conceding until they did right at the end. They weren't great, more that Levante aren't the same level as Granada and Valencia played them off the park.

Something going on there. I can't remember when Busquets last had a good game. He doesn't seem very important in possession anymore as they aren't being pressed high so his calmness on the ball and moving it forward isn't as needed as before and he's just been bad defensively. He's not Fernandinho or Casemiro who can clean up.

Messi is still carrying the team but he also looks worse than he has and a slight drop in quality from him would have made a difference between win an draw the last two seasons and now it shows.
 

Ishdalar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
3,179
Location
Spain
Supports
Barcelona
Barely beat 10 men Granada at home 1-0.
Ripped apart by Valencia.
Horror show against 3rd division Ibiza.
Barely beat Levante at home and almost lost control towards the end.
Out of the Cup before even reaching the semis for the first time in 10 years.

Going well so far for tiki taka master Setien.
17 players in the first team, with Suarez and Dembele injured, we're fielding Sergi Roberto as our right winger and a 17 y/o as the left winger, and our midfield (ahem, Rakitic) is so devoid of talent that our "false 9" had to drop to a regista depth just so we could break Athletic's pressure.

In 2012 we played Chelsea in the SF with Isaac Cuenca starting, Tello as a sub and Alves as a CB for 75 minutes, this season might be even worse than that, in summer we had Coutinho, Griezmann, Dembele, Denis Suarez, Rafinha, Malcom, Messi, Luis Suarez, Carles Perez and Ansu Fati, all those players could play in 2 out of the 3 forward spots, We're in February and our options are Messi, Griezmann, Fati and Collado.

How can you fairly assess a manager in that situation? Abraham, Ings, Pukki or Ayoze Perez would realistically walk into our starting 11 today.
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,836
Supports
Barcelona
17 players in the first team, with Suarez and Dembele injured, we're fielding Sergi Roberto as our right winger and a 17 y/o as the left winger, and our midfield (ahem, Rakitic) is so devoid of talent that our "false 9" had to drop to a regista depth just so we could break Athletic's pressure.

In 2012 we played Chelsea in the SF with Isaac Cuenca starting, Tello as a sub and Alves as a CB for 75 minutes, this season might be even worse than that, in summer we had Coutinho, Griezmann, Dembele, Denis Suarez, Rafinha, Malcom, Messi, Luis Suarez, Carles Perez and Ansu Fati, all those players could play in 2 out of the 3 forward spots, We're in February and our options are Messi, Griezmann, Fati and Collado.

How can you fairly assess a manager in that situation? Abraham, Ings, Pukki or Ayoze Perez would realistically walk into our starting 11 today.

THANK YOU

Even Klopp wouldn’t get much out of this squad with all the issues they have.

There’s a reason so many other managers turned down this job.
 

Cait Sith

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
1,267
None of those excuses were used when Valverde had to deal with perma injured Démbéle, CL banned Coutinho, garbage signings like Paulinho (which Valverde still made work somehow so that he wasn't seen as a total flop), Suarez with dodgy knees delaying surgery and a generally declining and ageing squad. He literally got sacked while having Barca top of the table for 3 seasons in a row and showing an upwards trend in performance against Atletico in his last game. Despite losing 2-3, the result should have been like 6-1 in the Super Cup "performance wise". But none of that mattered.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
Gets to Barca and there's no attempt to get the best out of him as a player and he has to play as a left winger more often than not. It's insane.
He's far too similar to Messi, an advanced playmaker who operates in central areas. He doesn't have the dribbling and directness to play in wider areas. They'd need to shift their play to him like they did with Neymar, only unlike Neymar they can't split the field in two between him and Messi, they'd need him playing close to Messi and that means bringing multiple defenders around Messi...
This was a valid excuse for most of the season but he's been playing up top since the Suarez injury and he's been awful. Big big miss today as well.
He hasn't been awful at all, it's just that you spent 120m plus 40 a year in wages to get a better version of Pedro in practical terms. You haven't tried to fit him next to Messi at all, which is already pretty hard to do in the first place

Is why every single advanced stats guy was very openly baffled by the signing
That role can't exist at Barcelona.

He was a terrible buy. Not sure what they were thinking.
His role very much exists at Barcelona. Only it's Messi's role
Who on earth is going to stop Liverpool?

Real with Hazard back can be a different team, but if they can concede 4 vs Real Sociedad then they can do that vs Pool too.
Our first choice starting XI is a completely different beast from what we played yesterday

Liverpool are still better, mind you, they'd be favourites against us and rightly so
Coutinho isn't good enough for Barca and hasn't even good enough for Bayern. Griezmann was never going to play in the best position that suits him and that's another wasted signing. Their only quality signings in recent years have been De Jong and Artur.
Coutinho was great for you until December 2018. He was just too mentally weak to react once things started going south. Valverde didn't help matters
Something going on there. I can't remember when Busquets last had a good game. He doesn't seem very important in possession anymore as they aren't being pressed high so his calmness on the ball and moving it forward isn't as needed as before and he's just been bad defensively.
Fun fact: Busquets has had his worst performances by far against great pressing teams over the last 3 seasons

He's still very useful against teams that either don't press or do it badly, and things might be different with Setien
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,836
Supports
Barcelona
He's far too similar to Messi, an advanced playmaker who operates in central areas. He doesn't have the dribbling and directness to play in wider areas. They'd need to shift their play to him like they did with Neymar, only unlike Neymar they can't split the field in two between him and Messi, they'd need him playing close to Messi and that means bringing multiple defenders around Messi...

He hasn't been awful at all, it's just that you spent 120m plus 40 a year in wages to get a better version of Pedro in practical terms. You haven't tried to fit him next to Messi at all, which is already pretty hard to do in the first place

Is why every single advanced stats guy was very openly baffled by the signing

His role very much exists at Barcelona. Only it's Messi's role

Our first choice starting XI is a completely different beast from what we played yesterday

Liverpool are still better, mind you, they'd be favourites against us and rightly so

Coutinho was great for you until December 2018. He was just too mentally weak to react once things started going south. Valverde didn't help matters

Fun fact: Busquets has had his worst performances by far against great pressing teams over the last 3 seasons

He's still very useful against teams that either don't press or do it badly, and things might be different with Setien
Nice thoughts

As a Madrid fan I’m sure you must feel pretty good about the league seeing the state we are in
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
10,462
His role very much exists at Barcelona. Only it's Messi's role
It being Messi's role means it doesn't exist at Barcelona.

It was never going to work optimally.

You play Griezmann behind Suarez and Messi wide right = positioning would be all over the place defensively.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
It being Messi's role means it doesn't exist at Barcelona.

It was never going to work optimally.

You play Griezmann behind Suarez and Messi wide right = positioning would be all over the place defensively.
Not really, there's ways around that. And you don't have to shift Messi out wide either, in fact they'd probably be better off keeping all 3 close to each other. The issue then is using the wbs for width and shifting the team's focus back on the front 3, using the midfield as cover and support. The way Liverpool do

But they don't want to do that. They want to go back to the halcyon days of Guardiola and Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta. It's a self-defeating cycle and i'm loving it very much :lol:
 

Harry190

Full Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
4,543
Location
Canada
If it weren't for Messi, Barcelona would be in the same position as us. Their recruitment has been shocking. They're buying quality players, but the type they don't need and that don't fit.

Busquets is past it. The backline is poor.
 

Bole Top

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
2,070
I thought Barca were actually very good yesterday. Messi set up a good chance for De Jong who fecked up and then missed a great chance himself + there was that Griezz chance. obviously they conceded in the end so everything else is now irrelevant but fans shouldn't be unhappy with that performance. I mean, it's Bilbao, you don't just go there and toy with them. they already lost against them earlier in season and couldn't beat them last year as well. Madrid also didn't beat them couple of weeks ago and also couldn't beat them last year. I know this loss fits nicely with everything else already happening in club, but Bilbao away is simply one of those games you easily lose even when everything's perfect. It sucks to lose that way, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
1,697
Supports
Chelsea
If it weren't for Messi, Barcelona would be in the same position as us. Their recruitment has been shocking. They're buying quality players, but the type they don't need and that don't fit.

Busquets is past it. The backline is poor.
I don't think there's that much wrong with Barcelona, lots of quality in the squad. I see Busquets as the same old, the difference is no Xavi and Iniesta for him to give the ball to.

All they really need is a manager who knows they're above the players and who can enforce discipline. The team are like spoiled children, can see them whining to the referee and now again today.

Need a disciplinarian manager go in that dressing room and kick ass. If Messi or whoever doesn't like it, bin them off. The Team needs to come first. Yes they also need to sack whoever sanctionned the crazy signings of recent years, probably the president...

I think Pep goes back there after Juventus or possibly after City if new Barca president by then.

Quique is just a pawn, may as well have Messi and Pique as player managers.
 

wr8_utd

:'(
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
34,713
Not really, there's ways around that. And you don't have to shift Messi out wide either, in fact they'd probably be better off keeping all 3 close to each other. The issue then is using the wbs for width and shifting the team's focus back on the front 3, using the midfield as cover and support. The way Liverpool do

But they don't want to do that. They want to go back to the halcyon days of Guardiola and Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta. It's a self-defeating cycle and i'm loving it very much :lol:
That's another issue for Barca. Alba's form has fallen off a cliff since Anfield and Roberto/Semedo really don't do much going forward so if you have Messi, Griezmann and Suarez close to each other, you're basically down to zero width. Griezmann was never going to fit into this team and it really didn't make sense back in the summer and it still makes no sense.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
That's another issue for Barca. Alba's form has fallen off a cliff since Anfield and Roberto/Semedo really don't do much going forward so if you have Messi, Griezmann and Suarez close to each other, you're basically down to zero width. Griezmann was never going to fit into this team and it really didn't make sense back in the summer and it still makes no sense.
When your front 3 have that much quality and threat, you don't need the wbs to do much beyond making runs and keeping a wide attacking position

Rather, the issue would be building up from the back. Would require the front 3 to get more involved in that as well. Liverpool have an easy fix to this thanks to the absurd pace of Mane and Salah and especially Mane's sorcerous ability to never be offside, so they can just punt it on the run behind the defence
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
71,714
Location
Barrow In Furness
These are the two knockout rounds for the semi-finals of Copa del Rey 2019-20:


Real Sociedad-CD Mirandés


Athletic Club- Granada CF
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
1,697
Supports
Chelsea
Basque derby in the final would be pretty lively. Hope they both get through.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
9,780
Supports
Aston Villa
These are the two knockout rounds for the semi-finals of Copa del Rey 2019-20:


Real Sociedad-CD Mirandés


Athletic Club- Granada CF
Wouldn't completely rule out Granada but think it's going to be a Basque bloodbath in the final. You ready @DomesticTadpole :lol:

Both sides last won the Copa Del Rey in mid 80s.
 

ReallyUSA

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 6, 2015
Messages
1,184
Its so weird to see coaches get paid so much. Here in America its totally different
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
10,462
Not really, there's ways around that. And you don't have to shift Messi out wide either, in fact they'd probably be better off keeping all 3 close to each other. The issue then is using the wbs for width and shifting the team's focus back on the front 3, using the midfield as cover and support. The way Liverpool do

But they don't want to do that. They want to go back to the halcyon days of Guardiola and Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta. It's a self-defeating cycle and i'm loving it very much :lol:
How would you even keep all 3 close to each other?

There's no feasible way to do it unless they played a diamond, but they've never ever done that and I think it'd still create problems with Messi not tracking back when needed to(unless you switch to a 442 defensively).

The Griezmann signing just creates more problems than it solves.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
73,542
Location
india
How would you even keep all 3 close to each other?

There's no feasible way to do it unless they played a diamond, but they've never ever done that and I think it'd still create problems with Messi not tracking back when needed to(unless you switch to a 442 defensively).

The Griezmann signing just creates more problems than it solves.
Its just a star name signing. I never undertood the point in it from a logical and tactical sense for Barcelona. With Messi getting older and becoming more of a playmaker with time, you need energy (in midfield) and pace/strength in attack to compliment him. Which is why both Neymar and Suarez work well with him. Or the 17 year old for that matter. It makes use of his incredible creative genius. No point having that asset and not having the runners to make it lethal. It's not as if Griezmann is slow but he's a second striker/9.5 hybrid and just muddles the waters in the central areas without adding anything unique of his own. It's like Coutinho (albiet better because Griezmann is far better), expensive signing but not an intelligent one.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
How would you even keep all 3 close to each other?

There's no feasible way to do it unless they played a diamond, but they've never ever done that and I think it'd still create problems with Messi not tracking back when needed to(unless you switch to a 442 defensively).

The Griezmann signing just creates more problems than it solves.
You...coach them to do it..?

Defensively they could have griezmann shift wide to create a 442 shape in positional defensive phases. They'd mostly defend by pressing though.

Or they can just leave them up and dare opponents to leave them 1vs1 with a defender...
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
71,714
Location
Barrow In Furness
Wouldn't completely rule out Granada but think it's going to be a Basque bloodbath in the final. You ready @DomesticTadpole :lol:

Both sides last won the Copa Del Rey in mid 80s.
Yep. I would have preferred being away first as we are not exactly prolific goalscorers, but I sometimes feel they don't achieve as much as they should, so maybe this is the year. The atmosphere should be bouncing. As @carvajal said the anthem should be interesting.:lol:

Not too confident about this weekend, as Inigo Martinez is missing through suspension (sure that has happened before). So presume 3 at the back is out of the window this weekend. Glad Unai Simon is back, really surprised we are being linked with Kepa, as this kid is the real deal.
 

No Idea For Nickname

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
9,149
Location
Split, Croatia
Any signs of them improving enough so they can knock out Liverpool?
Any signs of them improving enough so they can knock out Liverpool?
Not that I have seen much of the game, or now anything about Granada, but from what I,ve seen, Atleti will have to do much better against the all mighty, if they want to go to next round. :(
Might give it a go again.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
10,462
You...coach them to do it..?

Defensively they could have griezmann shift wide to create a 442 shape in positional defensive phases. They'd mostly defend by pressing though.

Or they can just leave them up and dare opponents to leave them 1vs1 with a defender...
Yeah, but this isn't MSN we're talking about.

Griezmann isn't a great dribbler and neither is Suarez anymore. Only threat is Messi.

I don't know why you think it could work. It's a plainly bad fit.

Messi walks when Barca don't have the ball, and so does Suarez lately. That's 2 passengers defensively. They can't press like that.
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
15,483
Supports
Real Madrid
Yeah, but this isn't MSN we're talking about.

Griezmann isn't a great dribbler and neither is Suarez anymore. Only threat is Messi.

I don't know why you think it could work. It's a plainly bad fit.

Messi walks when Barca don't have the ball, and so does Suarez lately. That's 2 passengers defensively. They can't press like that.
All true, and i agree griezmann isn't a good fit. But he's still antoine fecking griezmann, Suarez is still a great striker and Messi is still Messi

It doesn't have to be pretty, it doesn't have to be flawless, and probably wouldn't be either, but if you're investing big money on having 3 strikers who can win you games by themselves, might as well lean into it
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
1,836
Supports
Barcelona
I thought Barca were actually very good yesterday. Messi set up a good chance for De Jong who fecked up and then missed a great chance himself + there was that Griezz chance. obviously they conceded in the end so everything else is now irrelevant but fans shouldn't be unhappy with that performance. I mean, it's Bilbao, you don't just go there and toy with them. they already lost against them earlier in season and couldn't beat them last year as well. Madrid also didn't beat them couple of weeks ago and also couldn't beat them last year. I know this loss fits nicely with everything else already happening in club, but Bilbao away is simply one of those games you easily lose even when everything's perfect. It sucks to lose that way, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
Spot on. Shame about the score line but a good step in the rights direction for Barca
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
9,780
Supports
Aston Villa
Getafe are 3rd in the table!
Amazing. Is Bordalas just viewed as a Big Sam/Pulis type in Spain with his methods not able to translate as for last 3 seasons he deserves a bigger job than some of the managers who've been appointed at the top clubs.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
9,780
Supports
Aston Villa
Can see Raul De Tomas getting a Spain call up for Euros given their issues upfront nowadays.

Boy knows how to score in La Liga. 4 in 4 for Espanyol so far.