La Liga/Serie A/BuLi Draft - 1st Rd Skizzo/Pat Mustard vs Edgar Allan Pillow

[Marty1968]

Team Edgar Allan Pillow

vs



Team Skizzo/Pat Mustard

Team Edgar Allan Pillow Tactics

Formation:
Flexible 3-5-2 / 5-3-2

Strategy:

Kopke is one of the best German keepers of all time. German Footballer of the year in 1993 and World's and Europe's best GK in 1996, his pedigree is beyond question.

A solid defence comprising of Ivan Helguera who as so successful when Real Madrid employed the same formation during their CL winning campaign in 2000. A player comfortable both as CM and DM would be in his element here closing out attacks. He's flanked by Frank de Boer and Boateng, who are versatile as CB and FB on their own flanks. Both were at the top of their profession with Barcelona and Bayern.

Lizarazu and Sagnol patrol the flanks. Two complete defenders who can man the flank on their own, defensive sound with great attacking contribution they'll provide the width for the team.

Simeone and Cambiasso need no introduction. One of the best during their prime they combine defesive solidity with immense work rate, leadership and are quite comfortable starting attacks and/or moving up to join the attack themselves. It is the best defensive central midfield duo in this draft (Sorry Aldo ;-/).

Deco is one of few players to win CL with two different teams. Playing standard #10 for Porto and a attacking CM for Barca he managed to win the best club midfielder in Europe at both these positions in his prime. He also came 2nd in Ballon d'Or in 2004. A brilliant player who combines, workrate creativity and tactical brilliance.

Vieri and Inzaghi are two of the greatest Italian forwards of all time. Vieri was a monster with a well rounded game who can score as well as create. Inzaghi (born offside) is a predator who excels in being at the right place at the right time. Both have fantastic goal scoring records and as a pair supported by Deco can unlock any defence.

Bundesliga:
Andreas Kopke
Bixente Lizarazu
Willy Sagnol
Jerome Boateng

La Liga:
Deco
Frank de Boer
Diego Simeone
Ivan Helguera

Serie A:
Christian Vieri
Esteban Cambiasso
Filipo Inzaghi
Angelo di Livio (Substitute)

 

[Marty1968]

Team Skizzo/Pat Mustard Tactics


Formation: Narrow 4-4-2/4-2-2-2


We line up in a narrow 4-4-2 formation. We sport arguably the best keeper in the draft alongside Kahn in Walter Zenga, a three-time IFFHS World Goalkeeper of the Year. Ahead of him the rugged centre-back pairing of Ruggeri and Chiellini are flanked by a Sampdoria legend in Moreno Mannini and one of the most exciting attacking full backs of the mid-1990s in Christian Ziege.


Ahead of them sit an all-Spanish central midfield paring of Fernando Hierro and Ruben Baraja. A formidable defensive wall in front of the defence, the paring also combine a classy passing game with a considerable goal threat. Baraja scored an impressive 43 goals in 285 La Liga matches from midfield. Hierro was on another level entirely as a goalscoring midfielder- in a similar role for Raddy Antic’s 1991-92 Real Madrid team, he plundered an astonishing 21 goals in 37 league games. Andreas Moller, winner of a World Cup, a Euro Championship, a Champions League, a UEFA Cup and 2 Bundesligas, starts as a nominally left-sided attacking midfielder who will drift into the centre when we’re in possession. On right-attacking midfield isMario Basler, an infuriating, polarising figure but one of the finest talents German football has produced in recent memory. Scorer of 20 goals and provider of 12 assists in 33 league games in 1994-95, he’ll tend to play wider than Moller.


Up front we field a pair of World Cup winners in Jurgen Klinsmann and Bebeto. Both Klinsmann and Bebeto excelled in two-man attacks, forming two of the most memorable duos of their era with Voller and Romario respectively. They’ll be a nightmare to defend against here, with Klinsmann’s powerful , tireless running and physical presence in the penalty area creating spaces for the foraging, astute movement of Bebeto.


In possession Moller will drift centrally, with Ziege aggressively overlapping on our left wing. Moller will look to play in Klinsmann and Bebeto, and to arrive late in the penalty area in search of scoring opportunities. Our other attacking midfielder Basler will play somewhat wider, utilising his exquisite delivery from the right wing to send crosses in for Klinsmann, and forming a more orthodox wing paring with Mannini.


When we lose possession, the team will drop back into a relatively deep and compact 4-4-2, with Klinsmann taking principal responsibility for hounding Edgar’s defence/midfield while the team regains their shape.


Our Advantages:

Diverse Goal Threats: While both teams sport a pair of high-scoring strikers, we have by far the greater goalscoring threat from midfield. As we’re unsure of Edgar’s line up we’ll save the bulk of the number-crunching for the match thread, but for now we’ll point out that Hierro and Basler have both scored 20+ goals in a single league campaign and that Moller had a strike rate of slightly better than 1 in 3 games as an attacking midfielder for Juventus. The least prolific member of our midfield Baraja actually has a much better La Liga scoring record than Edgar's principal playmaker Deco.


Our Defence vs His Attack: As dangerous as Vieri was with his juggernaut physique and great goalscoring record, we feel the teak-tough Ruggeri is the ideal centre back to match up against him in this draft. His creativity in midfield is funnelled overwhelmingly through Deco, who has to operate in an area manned by the formidable Hierro/Baraja axis.


Our biggest vulnerability is in the wide areas where Moller and Basler are tasked with dropping into a 4-4-2 out of possession. We’re less concerned with our right wing with the dependable Mannini at full back, but with Moller hardly classifying as a defensive powerhouse and Ziege’s adventurous style at left back, there is room to exploit there. However with Edgar’s expected narrow line up and Di Livio being a very solid but far from spectacular wide midfielder, we don’t expect this weakness to be decisive, especially not with our central defence’s ability to deal with any crosses that come their way.


Ultimately we feel that we have a more creative team with a greater variety of goal threats. Edgar has drafted a sturdy, competitive unit, but his creativity is channelled excessively through Deco. Not only do we have Moller, Basler and also Hierro’s superb long-passing game, but we fancy Klinsmann and Bebeto to create significantly more between themselves than Vieri and Inzaghi will. Coupled with our solid central unit of Zenga/Ruggeri/Chiellini with Hierro and Baraja sitting ahead of them, we feel we should win this by a goal or two.

Good luck Edgar!


Serie A
Chiellini
Mannini
Zenga
Klinsmann

Bundesliga
Ziege
Moller
Basler

La Liga
Hierro
Baraja
Ruggeri
Bebeto

Sub
Pogba

 

[Marty1968]

First game of the draft is up...well done guys for being so prompt and good luck both sides. @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[harms]

First game already? Nice.

 

[harms]

@Marty1968 please, post the line-ups next to each other

 

[Skizzo]

First game of the draft is up...well done guys for being so prompt and good luck both sides. @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard @Edgar Allan Pillow

Cheers Marty! Thanks for getting it up. Don't expect too much traction until after the game

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Marty1968 you've got the teams mixed up. Mine is in OP and Skizzo is in the next post. Change the titles

And put the pics side by side if possible.

 

[MJJ]

Like team skizzo/pat here. Inzaghi plus vieiri

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Like team skizzo/pat here. Inzaghi plus vieiri

WAIT! That's my team.

MARTY!!!!

 

[Marty1968]

Like team skizzo/pat here. Inzaghi plus vieiri

EDIT: Mixed up the teams...all sorted now. Your compliment should be for EAP

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

............................................ Team EAP ...................................................................................... Team Skizzo / Pat .......................................

 

[MJJ]

WAIT! That's my team.

MARTY!!!!

Sorry, not changing my vote.

 

[Marty1968]

How do you do them side by side?? Tried and wouldn't work...

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

How do you do them side by side?? Tried and wouldn't work...

Copy my post into OP.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Sorry, not changing my vote.

Why?

 

[The Stain]

Two very nice sides. Tough luck in the draw, or something.

 

[MJJ]

Why?

Cos its fun to troll

 

[Skizzo]

@Marty1968 it might be easier to delete the thread and just start over

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Also you need to tag @Rado_N for the polls.

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Skizzo Pat
Team EAP

Usual conditions, Rado!

 

[Rado_N]

Done.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Bundesliga:

Andreas Kopke (GER)
Bixente Lizarazu (FRA)
Willy Sagnol (FRA)
Jerome Boateng (GER)​

La Liga:

Deco (POR)
Frank de Boer (NED)
Diego Simeone (ARG)
Ivan Helguera (ARG)​

Serie A:

Christian Vieri (ITA)
Esteban Cambiasso (ARG)
Filipo Inzaghi (ITA)
Angelo di Livio (ITA) (Substitute)​

@Marty1968 please add this to my writeup.

@Skizzo Recommend you include a similar one in your write up.

 

[harms]

I'm going to think about it a little more, but at the first glance I prefer EAP's team.

Skizzo is right that it's hard to think of a better defender to face Vieri than Ruggeri though, especially with the limited pool.

 

[The Stain]

Think we should add: (SPA), (ITA), (GER) next to the players names on the formation pics.

 

[Skizzo]

I'm going to think about it a little more, but at the first glance I prefer EAP's team.

Skizzo is right that it's hard to think of a better defender to face Vieri than Ruggeri though, especially with the limited pool.

Mind if I ask why? Just so we can get some discussion started and I can ignore this United game

 

[Skizzo]

@Edgar Allan Pillow good call

Serie A
Chiellini
Mannini
Zenga
Klinsmann

Bundesliga
Ziege
Moller
Basler

La Liga
Hierro
Baraja
Ruggeri
Bebeto

Sub
Pogba

 

[harms]

Mind if I ask why? Just so we can get some discussion started and I can ignore this United game

I get the reasoning

Mostly I prefer his personnel - Deco is one of my favorites, Vieri and Inzaghi is a great classic combo (yours is not far behind though), Cambiasso and Simeone is a fearsome and ruthless pair that looks well together - they are not exactly alike and compliment each other brilliantly. The only one that I have a slight problem with is Helguera - you don't have a pure №10 and he doesn't need another destroyer with his monstrous midfield duo, seems like an overkill and he could've used a spare man somewhere else.

My decision is not final yet though, I'm looking forward to the arguments.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The only one that I have a slight problem with is Helguera - you don't have a pure №10 and he doesn't need another destroyer with his monstrous midfield duo, seems like an overkill and he could've used a spare man somewhere else.

Reckon it's mainly down to the clear offensive briefs both his fullbacks have. Given the otherwise fairly narrow approach, he needs those two to bomb forward to a significant degree.

Tight affair. I like both teams and can't find much to fault anywhere, really.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

The only one that I have a slight problem with is Helguera - you don't have a pure №10 and he doesn't need another destroyer with his monstrous midfield duo, seems like an overkill and he could've used a spare man somewhere else.

Valid point. Moller would drift inside mostly and Basler was quite good in long passes and I felt the need to have a presence there to close them out, esp the aerial routes. Helguera was commanding in air and would neutralize any attack that way. In addition, being comfortable at CB & DM, he has the freedom to step up and cover whoever has the ball (or will be getting it) knowing he has a solid defensive shape behind him. Cambiasso and Simeone are excellent defensively and would definitely drop back when out of possession. Between them they should be comfortably handle anything opposition could throw at them.

The back 3 also gives more freedom for my fullbacks to be a bit more aggressive and tackle his wide players a bit higher on the pitch. They are very intelligent fullbacks and will use the freedom to close out spaces earlier and also give them the edge in attack when we recover the ball.

I'd still give me the edge in the midfield. Moller will drift in and out from wide, while Deco will be a stable presence dictating play there. He will definitely find spaces to operate in and marshall the attack here.

 

[Skizzo]

Alright, home again. Let's look over a few things here.

Edgar's midfield duo (Cambiasso and Simeone) are a solid pair, won't try and nitpick them. With Helguera in there as well, our set up favours us, in that we don't need to battle with them to get through. Moller and Basler are both comfortable wide, and both are fantastic on the ball, and at creating chances. Let's take a look at this list, originally posted by @Blackwidow and then reposted by @Joga Bonito (I believe)

I looked into the transfermarkt data for Germany...
They have even assists for the older days but I do not think that they are made in the same way it is today and that the data of that years are relieable.

The 20-top-players in assists of Alltime would be like this (the bold ones still playing in the Bundesliga)

Rank/Name/Country/Age/Games/Assists

1 Andreas Möller Deutschland 47 428 107
2 Gerd Müller Deutschland 69 427 106
3 Franck Ribéry Frankreich 31 193 99
4 Zé Roberto Brasilien 40 336 97
5 Mehmet Scholl Deutschland 44 392 91
6 Thomas Häßler Deutschland 48 400 85
7 Wolfgang Overath Deutschland 71 409 83
8 Mario Basler Deutschland 46 262 79
9 Dariusz Wosz Deutschland 45 324 77
10 Jürgen Grabowski Deutschland 70 441 76

I trimmed it down to the top 10. Andreas Moller sitting with most ever assists in the Bundesliga, with Basler coming in at number 8 also. While maybe not a most flashy name, Moller is arguably the best playmaker on the pitch. Not only does he create chances, but he has a damn good goal scoring record too. The benefit of having him drifting wide and centrally, is that it creates space for him to work, and he'll have fantastic movement around him with Klinsmann/Bebeto ahead, Basler wide, and Ziege on occasional overlaps.

 

[Theon]

Gone for EAP as I think he has the better team and tactically I see it working better.

Don't see any issue with Helguera in that role who looks like a good fit.

In terms of the front three, they're all fantastic players but I don't think they compliment each other perfectly IMO. Vieri and Inzaghi were both proper #9's and ideally you would have more of a fluid second striker rather than Vieri in that role, who wasn't a great dribbler or passer.

I don't think Deco is the one to bring it together either as IMO he played his best football at Barcelona slightly deeper. He has no pace to speak off and I'm not sure how well he'll link up with those two strikers up front. In general there is a real lack of ball carrying ability in the side.

But I still think they'll win as it is a good team - Sagnol over Zanetti was a mistake though.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I think Hierro's role here could decide the match. I agree that Deco isn't being used to his best but Hierro could prove vital in the question can he stop those quick balls to Vieri and Inzahgi

 

[Skizzo]

Vieri, a big, physical center forward, who would match up with Ruggeri. Two tough as nails bastards who will relish the challenge together.

Pippo Inzaghi, poacher, has a decent goal scoring record, but don't know how well they would link up here. Both would thrive off a more creative player alongside them, and they seem like two players put up front to score goals individually, without much link up.

Deco has a 1 assist in 3 game average in La Liga, which is a decent return. However, he is going to be working in space between Hierro/Baraja and our defense. He doesn't have the physicality to match up, he lacks real pace to turn and get away, and he has a poor goal scoring record. Shutting down his supply to the front two, the goals completely dry up.

----------------------------

On the flip side, Klinsmann and Bebeto have both thrived in two striker systems with a similar player to what they have here. (Klinsmann/Voller and Bebeto/Romario) These are two players who have good goal scoring records, and the most important factor, they can create chances between themselves, as proven by their partnerships.

Moller (assists shown above) also has a good scoring record of about 1 in 3, so offers a dual threat with creativity and goals.

Hierro and Basler have both scored 20+ goals in a single league campaign and that Moller had a strike rate of slightly better than 1 in 3 games as an attacking midfielder for Juventus.

In short, we have too many avenues to be completely shut out, especially as most of the opposition is set up centrally to counter what I assume Edgar thought would be a diamond. On the flip side, if we contain Deco, suddenly there's a real lack of cutting edge in the opposition.

We have Moller through balls to the runs of the opposition. We have Basler and Ziege crossing the ball in towards Klinsmann. Hierro and Basler on set pieces and long shots. Klinsmann and Bebeto linking up between themselves.

 

[Skizzo]

Gone for EAP as I think he has the better team and tactically I see it working better.

Don't see any issue with Helguera in that role who looks like a good fit.

In terms of the front three, they're all fantastic players but I don't think they compliment each other perfectly IMO. Vieri and Inzaghi were both proper #9's and ideally you would have more of a fluid second striker rather than Vieri in that role, who wasn't a great dribbler or passer.

I don't think Deco is the one to bring it together either as IMO he played his best football at Barcelona slightly deeper. He has no pace to speak off and I'm not sure how well he'll link up with those two strikers up front. In general there is a real lack of ball carrying ability in the side.

But I still think they'll win as it is a good team - Sagnol over Zanetti was a mistake though.

Guess I have to question your vote slightly since you seem to have put my own thoughts into your post. His front three, while great individually, would have a real lack of chemistry. With no real link up between the two strikers, and Deco struggling to piece it together, suddenly they have no goals in the team. I expanded those thoughts in my post above, so won't rehash it all. But we have goal threats and creativity in abundance.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I think Hierro's role here could decide the match. I agree that Deco isn't being used to his best but Hierro could prove vital in the question can he stop those quick balls to Vieri and Inzahgi

Hierro is not man marking Deco here. Deco will drop back or drift to edges of box and has the workrate and tactical awareness to get into spaces and run plays.
Cambiasso was great box-to-box and he'd have Lizarazu overlapping him when we attack.
Simeone also sports a good passing range and has Sagnol overlapping if we go down that side.
Vieri's all round game is underrated. With Inzaghi hovering to spring the offside trap, Vieri would drop back and get involved more in the buildup here.

Between them I can definitely sneak up goals.

 

[Skizzo]

As far as the center back pairing goes, Boateng and De Boer would struggle against the movement and pace of Klinsmann and Bebeto.

As Edgar has said himself

A goal is mandatory now.

- Boateng was not comfortable with Wellbeck pace and running around

In yesterday's match Wellbeck showed how suspicios Boateng is on pacy movement.

And I don't think we need to point out De Boer's lack of pace.

Those two will be up against it all game trying to contain the movement and link up of Klinsmann/Bebeto, and I can't see them keeping them out for an entire game.

 

[Skizzo]

Hierro is not man marking Deco here. Deco will drop back or drift to edges of box and has the workrate and tactical awareness to get into spaces and run plays.
.

Deco is hardly going to play the kind of game you're describing there.

Although he lacked pace and stamina, as well as notable physical, defensive, and athletic attributes...Despite his talent, Deco was also known to be injury-prone and inconsistent at times; furthermore, his work-rate and fitness were often brought into question.

Talented player that he was with the ball at his feet, this constant running that you describe, where he buzzes all over the field to find space, isn't going to happen. Especially when he's surrounded by players like Hierro/Baraja.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

With no real link up between the two strikers, and Deco struggling to piece it together, suddenly they have no goals in the team.

Talk about ott. No goals in my team?

Deco may not have the pace, but then he is up against a two man midfield here with Moller part-timing it. I'm sure his passing abilities and tactical skills haven't suddenly deserted him.

As far as the center back pairing goes, Boateng and De Boer would struggle against the movement and pace of Klinsmann and Bebeto.

And pace is overrated when we are not playing a high line. It's not like all successful CB were blessed with tremendous pace. Their pace is sufficient enough for the tactics I'm playing. They would not be overexposed to pace anytime here. It's a 2 vs 3 with Simeone and Cambiasso pitching in, I doubt your forward line would have much space to do too much pacey running anyways.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Deco is hardly going to play the kind of game you're describing there.

Talented player that he was with the ball at his feet, this constant running that you describe, where he buzzes all over the field to find space, isn't going to happen. Especially when he's surrounded by players like Hierro/Baraja.

If we are going to selective quote wiki here, let's look at this too...

Indeed, many Barcelona fans met the transfer with raised eyebrows, as Deco was considered an attacking midfielder, a department which was already well covered. Instead, coach Frank Rijkaard used him in a three-man midfield, where his tactical knowledge, passing abilities, and enormous work rate surprised many. In December 2004, he came second in France Football's Ballon d'Or 2004 award, losing to Andriy Shevchenko and beating teammate Ronaldinho by six votes.

He won the UEFA club midfielder of the year in Barcelona during 2005-06 playing a deeper role. I fail to see how his attributes can be questioned here.

 

[Tuppet]

This a hard one, I think its easy to overlook Skizzo/Pat's striker partnership, which IMO not only its a better partnership but even individually are better as well. Bebeto for me is better player than Inzaghi and was unfortunate to be in the shadow of Romario. Klinsmann and Vieri is very close but if I have to pick I would go with Klinsmann. On the other hand its hard to look past the midfield of EAP. Looking at Skizzo/Pat's team I wonder why wouldn't they go for a diamond straight up instead of throwing tactical curve ball. I mean Hierro and Moller would be perfect for roles in diamond.

P.S. How many times have these two(3) have played each other ? It has to be rigged.

 

[Skizzo]

Talk about ott. No goals in my team?

Deco may not have the pace, but then he is up against a two man midfield here with Moller part-timing it. I'm sure his passing abilities and tactical skills haven't suddenly deserted him.

I didn't say you have no goal scorers, I said beyond your front two you have no goal scorers. Do you really want to dig up Deco's goal record? It makes your threat much easier to contain.

And pace is overrated when we are not playing a high line. It's not like all successful CB were blessed with tremendous pace. Their pace is sufficient enough for the tactics I'm playing. They would not be overexposed to pace anytime here. It's a 2 vs 3 with Simeone and Cambiasso pitching in. I doubt your forward line would have much space to do too much pacey running anyways.

You never said how you're playing. You opted to leave out any tactical information at all. Just gave a brief description of your players. And of course pace can make a difference, as can the movement and intelligence of the forwards.


Movement around the box, finding space in behind, exploiting and missteps. Unless you're playing on the edge of your area the whole game, then there will still be space. Especially as Bebeto, Klinsmann, Moller are all great at linking up. Or you can always camp out and let Hierro and Basler take pot shots at goal.

If we are going to selective quote wiki here, let's look at this too...


He won the UEFA club midfielder of the year in Barcelona during 2005-06 playing a deeper role. I fail to see how his attributes can be questioned here.

The part i quoted was directly related to the claim you made about him working hard and running everywhere. Also, he's not playing a deeper role here is he?