Lack of Coaching

[fergieisold]

I've seen this phrase pop up numerous times over the past few weeks. Usually it's thrown out there without much explanation and often after a poor result. It seems to be a go to description for a poor perceived performance, but what exactly do people mean by it?

Lets take Guardiola as an example. I'm assuming most people would not accuse him of a lack of coaching (whatever that might mean). So what exactly is he doing behind the scenes that Ole is refusing to do, or isn't good enough to do?

 

[Rozay]

I've seen this phrase pop up numerous times over the past few weeks. Usually it's thrown out there without much explanation and often after a poor result. It seems to be a go to description for a poor perceived performance, but what exactly do people mean by it?

Lets take Guardiola as an example. I'm assuming most people would not accuse him of a lack of coaching (whatever that might mean). So what exactly is he doing behind the scenes that Ole is refusing to do, or isn't good enough to do?

Detail.

It’s about proper effective organisation in all phases of play. We don’t employ patterns, we don’t demonstrate structure. Our strategy seems predominantly based around the ‘effort’ and mentality of our players than any set up.

Other coaches are getting better, both offensively and defensively. We haven’t evolved, particularly offensively, to counter well organised defences. We remain obsessed with counter attack, why wouldn’t we be? It’s an opportunity to mount an attack against 3 or 4 players at most. If only life were that simple.

Take one small example at City. Look at Sterling’s goal against Spurs at the beginning of the season and the Jesus goal against Everton on Saturday. Identical. Game plan to work Kevin De Bruyne into the same inside right position to cross first time, a forward making the same out to in run at the back post, and the same finish. Identical. And it happens again and again. Players knowing where to be on and off the ball, and the whole team moving symbiotically.

Manchester United want to get away with just ‘going for it’, and it is not enough. The problem is, they don’t seem to have enough off the pitch to take it up a level. We do in some one-off games, like setting up alto beat Spurs away or PSG away. But as a blueprint or template, we don’t have.

 

[2 man midfield]

What would you say our style of play is? How would you say we act in the final third? How we attack? Is there any patterns you can identify, in how we move the ball and try to break the other team down? Or does it all look a bit random and hopeless, and like we’re making it up as we go along.

I can’t answer any of those apart from the last one. This is the problem. I could have answered the rest 3-4 months ago, but now that’s all disappeared. So where’s the coaching gone?

Even the pressing that was there in pre-season has gone. We don’t seem to be coached at all, other than maybe defensively. That’s why people compare it to Moyes, Jose type football. Because it’s exactly the same as what we saw under those 2 managers - basically just a neglect of our attacking play.

 

[Sky1981]

Good coach lose sometimes wins consistently

Bad coach win sometimes lose consistently

 

[Massive Spanner]

What would you say our style of play is? How would you say we act in the final third? How we attack? Is there any patterns you can identify, in how we move the ball and try to break the other team down? Or does it all look a bit random and hopeless? Like we’re making it up as we go along.

I can’t answer any of those apart from the last 2. This is the problem. I could have answered the rest 3-4 months ago, but now that’s all disappeared. Even the pressing that was there in pre-season has gone. We don’t seem to be coached at all, other than maybe defensively. That’s why people compare it to Moyes, Jose type football. Because it’s exactly the same as what we saw under those 2 managers.

Pretty much.

It's been discussed in other threads but noodlehair's one talking about Rojo just doing whatever the feck he wants to when he's on the pitch sums it up pretty well, I think. Player's don't function as cohesive units and we have no plan beyond hitting teams on the break.

The team don't look coached at all, really, and that's on Ole and the staff. He's had a full summer now to try implement... something, and we look more lost on the pitch than ever.

 

[romufc]

Take one small example at City. Look at Sterling’s goal against Spurs at the beginning of the season and the Jesus goal against Everton on Saturday. Identical. Game plan to work Kevin De Bruyne into the same inside right position to cross first time, a forward making the same out to in run at the back post, and the same finish. Identical. And it happens again and again. Players knowing where to be on and off the ball, and the whole team moving symbiotically.

This. Pattern's of play. City when they have the ball know exactly what they want to do and have 3/4 different patterns. They play on the right and if the KDB ball is not on they don't panic and put it in regardless, they recycle and try the left wing where the patter of play is sterling pases and then makes a run inside and he is then through the inside channel.

Liverpool have a pattern of high intensity pressing and once they win the ball back you know Salah and Mane are going direct.

United don't have that. when we get to the final third some players look like they don't know what to do.

Classic example.. Rashford through on goal and had no clue what to do Vs West Ham.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Classic example.. Rashford through on goal and had no clue what to do Vs West Ham.

I think Rashford aimlessly chasing down the goalkeeper on his own is more indicative of a lack of a cohesive plan than anything else.

 

[fergieisold]

What would you say our style of play is? How would you say we act in the final third? How we attack? Is there any patterns you can identify, in how we move the ball and try to break the other team down? Or does it all look a bit random and hopeless, and like we’re making it up as we go along.

I can’t answer any of those apart from the last one. This is the problem. I could have answered the rest 3-4 months ago, but now that’s all disappeared. So where’s the coaching gone?

Even the pressing that was there in pre-season has gone. We don’t seem to be coached at all, other than maybe defensively. That’s why people compare it to Moyes, Jose type football. Because it’s exactly the same as what we saw under those 2 managers - basically just a neglect of our attacking play.

A lot of people think we are playing counter attacking football but I tend to disagree. I feel like we are trying to play better possession based football at times but I'm certainly no expert. I'll pay attention to tonights game and see if I can spot anything useful to report!

 

[Eckers99]

I think we try to maximise the width of the pitch but, when a midfielder is on the ball, the forwards are often stretched out in a horizontal line across the 18 yard box. Nobody comes short to find space, pull a defender out of position and nobody runs in behind. It's pretty one dimensional and, clearly, very easy to play against.

 

[romufc]

I think Rashford aimlessly chasing down the goalkeeper on his own is more indicative of a lack of a cohesive plan than anything else.

Yeah, with the rest 40 yards behind.

I haven't actually seen us press well this season. To me, if you want to press it has so be something similar to what Watford did to Arsenal for their goal. Not one man going and an easy pass is available.

 

[rhoff113]

Did Ole ever get us back into a game like Mourinho used to do ?
It's a part of good coaching.

 

[Thaila-X]

Forget City, look at what Graham Potter has done with Brighton in a few months! He's taken a team that played an effective but very drab style of football under Chris Hughton and got them trying to play out from the back. Yes, it got them into trouble and cost them against Chelsea but the ideas are being implemented and the squad are starting to get it. It takes time to coach the players and in some cases, you need to replace the players and get people who are capable in.

As mentioned above, attention to detail is a huge part of coaching. You'd like to think everyone playing at this level knows the basics and can play the game. A good coach builds on this and implements things like patterns of play and what to do in different phases of play. Coaching is getting every player knowing their role and what they are doing when they're out there. For me coaching is developing a clear idea of how a team is going to play, getting the players to understand and buy into the strategy and most importantly, deliver on it when they go over the white line.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Detail.

It’s about proper effective organisation in all phases of play. We don’t employ patterns, we don’t demonstrate structure. Our strategy seems predominantly based around the ‘effort’ and mentality of our players than any set up.

Other coaches are getting better, both offensively and defensively. We haven’t evolved, particularly offensively, to counter well organised defences. We remain obsessed with counter attack, why wouldn’t we be? It’s an opportunity to mount an attack against 3 or 4 players at most. If only life were that simple.

Take one small example at City. Look at Sterling’s goal against Spurs at the beginning of the season and the Jesus goal against Everton on Saturday. Identical. Game plan to work Kevin De Bruyne into the same inside right position to cross first time, a forward making the same out to in run at the back post, and the same finish. Identical. And it happens again and again. Players knowing where to be on and off the ball, and the whole team moving symbiotically.

Manchester United want to get away with just ‘going for it’, and it is not enough. The problem is, they don’t seem to have enough off the pitch to take it up a level. We do in some one-off games, like setting up alto beat Spurs away or PSG away. But as a blueprint or template, we don’t have.

That is one important part of the lack of coaching argument. Another important part is the seemingly low level of technical ability in the squad. The players individual abilities have not improved since LVG left. Our players are far from being good enough at receiving and passing the ball. And one would think that given time with training each day they would improve... But no. Either they have all reached their limit, or what happens at Carrington is simply not good enough.

One thing i think we can say: We are among worst coached team in the league. Either it be coached in regards to how to play, or as in exercises that will improve the ability of the players.

 

[Grande]

It’s like Plato and the cave wall, we don’t see the light (coaching), we don’t see the coached strucures, we only see the shadows on the cave wall.

We can look for signs of attacking structure, like #Rozay showed with Guardiola/City, and wether we see them or not depends on our understanding of football structures, how hard we look and what we want to see.

Four things are clear: 1 A highly collectivized team with detailed instructions is easier to see structure in than a team that caters to individualism and creativity. 2 A team good enough to always be dominant (or bad enough to always be underdog) will play with the same structures mire often. 3 A group of players having played together for many years will be easier to see structure in than a newly assembled team. 4 Most importantly, a team that plays well is easier to see structures in.

Guardiola at City is probably the most extreme example of ‘easy to see structure’ in football today. When in Barca, he used to say to the players: I’ll take you to the 30-yard line, you have to do the rest yourselves. Meaning, play was highly structured by detailed instructions in defense and up to the last third, after that it was largely up to improvisation of individuals. At City, with less genial attacking players, he has automated the play all the way up to the five yard line in most cases.

Klopp is ‘known’ for playing style, but if you saw Liverpool last year and so far this year, it was very different to Dortmund and Klopp’s first years at Pool. It was often a case of getting the ball over the half line and open up times on the counter or using the fast interplay of the very well drilled and high quality of Mane-Firmino-Salah, plus they had very much a flow season. This season, when I’ve looked at them, the structure is hard to see because they’ve not managed to perform it with quality, but as we’ve seen Klopp’s teams for so long, we assume there is structure there even when it doesn’t show.

Solskjær is in a different situation. Few here have seen his Molde teams play much and know what to look for. Last season we saw him play first a Solskjær tweaked Mourinho drilled team, then a team set up tactically suited to different on paper dominant opposing teams (Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, PSG, Pool, Barca), and then a team not able to perform the game plan successfully due to exhaustion, weak mentality, confidence, what have you.

Solskjær haven’t been able to impose an own playing structure before preseason started. After then, there are quite a lot of structure at display defensively, which makes sense, as there are better players there, and Solskjær is building from the back, security first, like most coaches do.

The attacking play, the structure is clear to se up until the half way line. From there on in, there are problems. Are they due to a) attacking patterns taking more time to implement than defensive patterns, b) they’re only getting started focussing on the attacking pattern, c) the constant changing of players due to injury means the relations are not getting developped, d) the players are not (or not yet) good enough quality wise to impose their playing structure in the game, e) there are no attacking structures beyond the half way line, f) there are attacking plans but Solskjær and his coaching team are not good enough at getting them across, or g) there is a plan in place, it’s just inferior to the plans of all other PL managers.

I don’t claim to hold the answer. I just see there are a lot of likely factors to choose from, and it’s unlikely for anyone outside the club to know which ones of these factors are most relevant for a year or maybe two.

As for anyone looking at not finding any signs of structure in our play at all, I think it’s clear they don’t know how structure looks like or aren’t looking very well.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I've seen this phrase pop up numerous times over the past few weeks. Usually it's thrown out there without much explanation and often after a poor result. It seems to be a go to description for a poor perceived performance, but what exactly do people mean by it?

Lets take Guardiola as an example. I'm assuming most people would not accuse him of a lack of coaching (whatever that might mean). So what exactly is he doing behind the scenes that Ole is refusing to do, or isn't good enough to do?

Passing:
Look at the pace of passing in the City side, it's like the players know where their teammates are going to be, that comes from training, when a player has the ball, the other players must provide free passing lanes(they should make runs, pull defenders off to create spaces). This is something we don't do, our players receive the ball and then look up to see who is free, that is very poor and shows a lack of coaching.

Pressing:
The organization in pressing, when your forwards press higher, the midfielders move up and close down also, the defenders also play a high line leaving no space for the opponents to exploit. This is done extraordinarily well by Liverpool and City and to an extent by Spurs. But look at us, forwards press high, but the defenders are not comfortable in playing a high line and leave huge spaces in midfield, our midfielders pretty much stand in a no mans land. This is the difference between the coaching, OGS talks a lot about pressing and he knows it as a concept but to get a bunch of players to play like that, he needs to coach.

 

[Amerifan]

Detail.

It’s about proper effective organisation in all phases of play. We don’t employ patterns, we don’t demonstrate structure. Our strategy seems predominantly based around the ‘effort’ and mentality of our players than any set up.

Other coaches are getting better, both offensively and defensively. We haven’t evolved, particularly offensively, to counter well organised defences. We remain obsessed with counter attack, why wouldn’t we be? It’s an opportunity to mount an attack against 3 or 4 players at most. If only life were that simple.

Take one small example at City. Look at Sterling’s goal against Spurs at the beginning of the season and the Jesus goal against Everton on Saturday. Identical. Game plan to work Kevin De Bruyne into the same inside right position to cross first time, a forward making the same out to in run at the back post, and the same finish. Identical. And it happens again and again. Players knowing where to be on and off the ball, and the whole team moving symbiotically.

Manchester United want to get away with just ‘going for it’, and it is not enough. The problem is, they don’t seem to have enough off the pitch to take it up a level. We do in some one-off games, like setting up alto beat Spurs away or PSG away. But as a blueprint or template, we don’t have.

I was going to say precision, but detail covers it. Watching City every man knows where everyone else is and is going to be. So many connected passes are blind, in the sense the target player isn’t there yet, and in many cases hasn’t even begun his move in that direction. It’s about the squad as a group moving the ball with precision into the goal.

Pep has hand-selected experienced players and it still took years to get where they are. Ole has a hand-me-down squad and kids and has had 8 months. From the looks of it Ole and staff are working to build a cohesive side, but it’s a work in progress. It must be very difficult for the players to be told to act like cohesive side when they clearly aren’t one yet. To the players it’s a bunch of theory that doesn’t match reality on the pitch. Individual players are dealing with that in different ways.

Mata and Matic get a lot of stick, but if you watch their passing they are putting ball where our player should be. But the player doesn’t arrive. Pogba and Rashford have given up on guessing what their teammates are going to do, and try to do it all by themselves. McTominay is tired of losing possession so passes sideways or backwards. It’s unclear what AWB is attempting to do when going forward, but whatever it is his teammates don’t know how to react. And so on. The end result looks like a disorganized mess.

We have to remember it’s early days for Ole and his coaches. If at the end of the season the squad isn’t playing any better as a team, we might have a coaching problem. Even then, one season isn’t enough to get this level of change implemented. But we should see signs of progress.

 

[Leftback99]

Why does City's defence look poor without Laporte? Does Pep not know how to coach a defence?

 

[Wolff]

Yeah, with the rest 40 yards behind.

I haven't actually seen us press well this season. To me, if you want to press it has so be something similar to what Watford did to Arsenal for their goal. Not one man going and an easy pass is available.

Really? That is down to plan? And lack of coaching? Come on guys! Even I could see Matic and Mata not moving their legs, hench why even the wide men was out of position to press. What is Rashford suppose to do? Not press or follow the instructions because the rest is unbalanced? Come on!

 

[romufc]

Why does City's defence look poor without Laporte? Does Pep not know how to coach a defence?

Probably the same reason why our defence was poor last? Even Jose couldn't stop the leak..

 

[romufc]

Really? That is down to plan? And lack of coaching? Come on guys! Even I could see Matic and Mata not moving their legs, hench why even the wide men was out of position to press. What is Rashford suppose to do? Not press or follow the instructions because the rest is unbalanced? Come on!

It is down to a lack of plan because as the manager if you put your team out with Mata and Matic and tell the players to press, that is the coaches fault for not realising the players weakness.

We could easily have players 5-10 yards higher as a team.

 

[Roboc7]

Patterns of play and triggers for pressing etc are evident when watching the well coached teams. It’s clear we’re not in that bracket and that everything we do is very basic in comparison to lots of other teams.

 

[Cassidy]

Why does City's defence look poor without Laporte? Does Pep not know how to coach a defence?

He isn't the best at it, that much is clear. They didn't look great defensively with Laporte
He relies more on defending from the front, winning the ball back quickly and dominating time on the ball.

Besides the point though because United have not looked great attacking wise with or without Marital Pogba Lukaku Sanchez etc etc

There are no patterns of play, there is very little movement in the forward line etc etc

 

[Leftback99]

Probably the same reason why our defence was poor last? Even Jose couldn't stop the leak..

The reason being poor players? Does it not apply in attack?

 

[romufc]

The reason being poor players? Does it not apply in attack?

Poor players yes. We all know we have a poor selection of attacking options but the difference is, Pep still wins. The defence is looking shocking but he is winning games.

Are we creating and scoring enough?

 

[Greck]

Synchronised passing is better shown than described. Look at the the passing in the first move. It's not bought it's coached. People make it sound like one or two signings is the difference. Like Sancho is going to make our FBs and Midfielders do this.

 

[Wolff]

It is down to a lack of plan because as the manager if you put your team out with Mata and Matic and tell the players to press, that is the coaches fault for not realising the players weakness.

We could easily have players 5-10 yards higher as a team.

He have what he have in player material, but you are seriously not suggesting Matic have become so slow he can’t press Mark Noble?
I agree completely about higher press and team block theory, and you saw how well Ole got the team to press when he took over. That was down to tactics and players giving it a go. Also, it has not been all bad this season either. People are hanging all their clothes on a shit game, and somehow expected the B side of the B side be world beaters in a cup game.

 

[Tom Cato]

Poor players yes. We all know we have a poor selection of attacking options but the difference is, Pep still wins. The defence is looking shocking but he is winning games.

Are we creating and scoring enough?

Pep inherited a VERY good team, and has spent hundreds of millions of pounds on even greater players. The phrase Pep still wins would not hold water in this club. It's easier to win games when you are so top heavy that you can bench Raheem Sterling. The comparison is honestly straight up impossibly unfair between the Manchester City squad, and Manchester United of today.

And hey. We are not exactly leaking goals are we? No we're not. We have conceded 6 goals all season. 3rd least out of any team in the Premier League.

Our ONLY problem is scoring.

 

[Beachryan]

One of the things I felt people most under-rated about Fergie was the way his teams didn't depend on personnel. The number of times he had a full back on the wing, a winger at full back, a midfielder at CB etc and the team still managed to win was extraordinary. That has to be down to how well the whole squad understood what the plan was.

Ole gets a bit of reprieve from me because we can't field the same attacking unit in 3 straight matches - ever - because of injuries. It's difficult to really get players into patterns performing at prem level without experience. It took Pep quite a while to get it going at City, and that was with a squad of hand-picked specialists for his system.

That said, the lack of consistency in our plan is clear and obvious, and extremely worrying. If we could field our 'best' front 4 for a few weeks and still weren't creating chances I'd be more concerned.

Outside of West Ham, we've been the better side on the pitch. That should count for something.

 

[romufc]

He have what he have in player material, but you are seriously not suggesting Matic have become so slow he can’t press Mark Noble?
I agree completely about higher press and team block theory, and you saw how well Ole got the team to press when he took over. That was down to tactics and players giving it a go. Also, it has not been all bad this season either. People are hanging all their clothes on a shit game, and somehow expected the B side of the B side be world beaters in a cup game.

No my point is exactly opposite, how can no one press Noble outside the box?

Also, I am not concerned about the Rochdale game, it has happened in many years even under Fergie where the cup games turn tricky when people are not fully at it.

West Ham however; was a BIG concern, as you said we saw Ole's pressing when he took over, but since then its gone. I don't mind the team not pressing for 90 mins. But first 10 mins of an away game I would like to see high press to set the tempo and maybe get a goal and then hit them on a break.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

A lot of people think we are playing counter attacking football but I tend to disagree. I feel like we are trying to play better possession based football at times but I'm certainly no expert. I'll pay attention to tonights game and see if I can spot anything useful to report!

Agree - we regularly finish games with 55%+ possession which is not the hallmark of a counter-attacking team. If we're trying to counter-attack, we're doing something seriously wrong.

 

[Blueman]

Pep inherited a VERY good team, and has spent hundreds of millions of pounds on even greater players. The phrase Pep still wins would not hold water in this club. It's easier to win games when you are so top heavy that you can bench Raheem Sterling. The comparison is honestly straight up impossibly unfair between the Manchester City squad, and Manchester United of today.

And hey. We are not exactly leaking goals are we? No we're not. We have conceded 6 goals all season. 3rd least out of any team in the Premier League.

Our ONLY problem is scoring.

Tbf he had Kolarov and Clichy as defenders and got his worst ever achievments that first season. He (And his staff) then bought Sane, Gundog, Bernardo, Laporte, Walker, Mendy etc and has doubled their value through coaching and winning. He has made this team what they are tbh, easier with money I know but same for United - The only difference being the manager and setup

 

[romufc]

Pep inherited a VERY good team, and has spent hundreds of millions of pounds on even greater players. The phrase Pep still wins would not hold water in this club. It's easier to win games when you are so top heavy that you can bench Raheem Sterling. The comparison is honestly straight up impossibly unfair between the Manchester City squad, and Manchester United of today.

And hey. We are not exactly leaking goals are we? No we're not. We have conceded 6 goals all season. 3rd least out of any team in the Premier League.

Our ONLY problem is scoring.

Pep inherited a team and spent, doesn't matter, Jose and Ole have both had the money to spend too and yet we are million miles away from City.

When Jose was entering his final season we could bench Martial, Sanchez.

However much I hate to say it, there is something wrong at United and it is frustrating because we seem to sort one problem out and then a massive one appears.

I agree we have seemed to sorted our defence but would you agree set pieces is a to do with coaching?

Why do we look so poor defensively and attacking?

 

[sunama]

Given all the replies above, I think that there is no doubt that our coaching is poor.
And I am pointing the finger at Carrick/McKenna, who have been an unmitigated disaster since they took over as coaches (and Rui Faria left). Why are these 2 never mentioned when we mess up?

I would also add that we are underperforming, top to bottom. This goes from the board, the manager, the coaches, the players, the physios and so on.

This is the reason why I say that the changes need to happen at the top, for the entire culture at the club to change. At present, everybody is just going through the motions, doing the bear minimum to pick up a pay cheque.

What is also indicative of poor coaching is that when new players arrive, they perform very well. Some even pick up the player of the month aware. A few months later, their performance level drops and never returns. I saw this happen with Miki, who became so bad, that he had to be sold. Darmian got a player of the month award and eventually got sold for peanuts. Remember Bailly? A stellar first 3 months, then turned to junk. The list goes on.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It's about identifying your players' strengths, spot the synergies that can be created between the abilities of two or more players and then use all that in order to maximize the spaces in the attacking half and increase the quality of your chances.

There are a lot of things you can say about Pep but we can use some simple things as an example. Firstly, his designs always revolve around the abilities of his creative players: On the right side, KdB is one of the most dynamic players on the ball and he's probably the best creative player in the world when he is running with the ball. He's accommodated most times by B. Silva who's an excellent wide playmaker and by Walker who can operate wide as well as more centrally. Silva's natural game creates spaces for KdB's driving runs and the havoc the Belgian wreaks opens up pockets of space for B. Silva. On the left, it's usually the steady presence of Silva (the Spaniard) in the left half- space that works as a stepping stone for Sterling's movement near or inside the box. It looks easy but it's not.

Then you see how rapidly they move the ball when they set an attacking move in motion successfully. KdB's runs with the ball generate movement in the box. Silva cutting inside sees Aguero dropping deeper and KdB moving wide for a cross etc. The way they create 1v1 situations for Sterling is fantastic and whenever the latter takes on a defender the rest help him not by simply making themselves available but by attacking spaces where they can be threatening themselves.

Ferguson was very good at it too and he didn't need the most expensive squad in the world to do it either. Nani could do 1+3 things good: Cut inside and then either shoot, cross to the far post or try a neat one-two. Evra's overlaps and Rooney's movement in between the lines created multiple opportunities for Nani to do his thing. And we made the most out of it. Valencia looked the part on the right wing before his injury because he and Rooney had developed an undestanding between them that Ferguson nurtured. Valencia would use his pace in order to receive the switch-play ball from Rooney and then Rooney would attack the cross at the far post from Tony.

There's a lot of talk on the Caf about flair, freedom of expression and managers who teach their players how to be robots on the pitch. Pep has claimed several times that the scoring of goals and the creation of chances is his players' responsibility. Klopp, when asked what his atracking plan is, he usually responds something like "getting as many players in and around the box as possible". Of course, there are patterns of play but i think it's one thing they are getting absolutely spot on: They don't overrate their players.

Which is somehing that is happening with Ole. For his trust in Lingard and Mata many words have been written on here already. But the truth is that this was a monumental feck-up because it forces Rashford in an Hazard-type wide role which is clearly too much for him. Shaw not being fit enough to constantly overlap adds to this.

There's also too much faith in Martial & Rashford's ability to lead the line. Modern creative/attacking footballers are all about intensity and the ability on the ball in tight spaces/under pressure. Rashford has intensity but he always seems to need acres of space to do his thing. Martial has very little intensity in his game. And our state in the post-SAF era has made people overrate his actual abilities too. He loses the ball as much as Rashford, his movement leaves a lot to be desired and he goes awol for huge portions of the games. Add Lingard and Pereira in the mix and you'll see why James, who can keep the ball for three secs, looks like our best player in the attacking half.

And there's always the Pogba conundrum. Fantastic player but also a headache for any manager who wants to build a side from scratch. This is because he needs others to create space for him in the midfield. That's three of the players we heavily rely upon to get us through the season.

Ole will probably get the sack during the course if the season but this doesn't mean that he's doing nothing at Carington. We try to create 2v2 situations in the wide areas, we want our 10 to either play closer to the forward or create pockets of space for the wingers to get into (goals against the Saints and Wolves), we want Pogba to pick his moments and influence the game from a slightly deeper position. And we should have more points by now, so there's that. But i do believe that we are going to have more discussions about the likes of Lukaku and Sanchez or even Smalling simply because the manager and his staff have overrated the abilities of our squad.

It happened with LvG and Mourinho too. Two different philophies which exposed two great weaknesses. Our innability in congested spaces made LvG's football tumescent and the complete lack of tactical discipline in the defensive shape hurt Mourinho's plans. Unless we want to believe that these two don't know how to train players either.

 

[SteveW]

I struggle to see how any coach could get a tune out of a team containing Matic, Mata, Lingard, Peirera and Fred.

I'd judge him when he's got something close to his best attack available for a few games. They were creating plenty before Pogba and Martial got injured.

 

[roonster09]

We are not properly coached and this is not just under Ole, it was same under Jose too. When you see the teams like City, Liverpool and few other clubs you see a team where players trust each other. The game is very compact when not in possession and when they have the ball, they make the pitch as big as possible.

We don't even do the most basic things on the pitch anymore. Our FBs don't make overlapping runs, they carry the ball, pass the ball to someone and then standstill. When sometimes they make the overlapping runs, those runs are either ignored or player makes a pass in a way that it's of no use.

Off the ball, the movement is non existent. Our players who are in possession don't trust others to make the runs and maybe the players who should be making the runs dont trust the player on possession to play the pass.

We move the ball at slow pace, which is easier to defend. We don't do overloading on wings to gain numerical advantage, our players don't attack the crosses.

List is endless, we are not properly coached or our players are the thickest in the league. When was the last time our players played a simple pass and move stuff? You see other top teams, the player X passes the ball to Y and then creates a good angle to receive the pass, making the decision easier for Y. We don't even do basic one two stuff.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Some people are (in this case, much) better at their job than others.

 

[He'sRaldo]

As for anyone looking at not finding any signs of structure in our play at all, I think it’s clear they don’t know how structure looks like or aren’t looking very well.

The fact that people are bringing up Man City, and sometimes Liverpool, shows the problem. I think they expect us to be on that level of structure after only one preseason. Anything less than that may as well be nonexistent.


I mean, isn't it obvious that to get to that level takes a lot of time and investment?

 

[Greck]

The fact that people are bringing up Man City, and sometimes Liverpool, shows the problem. I think they expect us to be on that level of structure after only one preseason. Anything less than that may as well be nonexistent.


I mean, isn't it obvious that to get to that level takes a lot of time and investment?

That's why I posted a vid of Rochdale above. Precisely to show it's not just about investment. Doubt they even have anyone on mata's level and they can still orchestrate attacks like that first goal

 

[RedDevilzFox]

Since SAF has retired, lack of coaching has been a consistent theme. Certainly was under Moyes and then under Mourinho. Only Van Gaal seem to be the one who knew how he wanted the team to play even if it was largely boring and ineffective.
Every week we see threads and comments like "what do these players do all week in training?" and rightly so. We look no different under Ole either. Van Gaal was right when he commented 6 or so months ago that we are still largely a counterattacking team.

Makes you wonder if we are NOT going to get a DoF and proper structure in this club, then perhaps we should go ahead and try to hire Marcelo Bielsa. At least no one will ever accuse us of "lack of coaching" and "cluelessness".