Lack of composure

[Di Maria's angel]

Not sure if it's the leader we're missing or just somebody who doesn't scare away from taking the responsibility, a la Pogba really.

I think it'd help if someone would simply say to Rojo or Young or anyone else "hey, stop hoofing the ball, you clown" once in a while. Obviously it has to be someone with authority and the confidence i.e. Pogba, Carrick or Ibra.

 

[Paxi]

I think it'd help if someone would simply say to Rojo or Young or anyone else "hey, stop hoofing the ball, you clown" once in a while. Obviously it has to be someone with authority and the confidence i.e. Pogba, Carrick or Ibra.

I think that was Jose's instruction, sadly. Well I don't think he ever trusts his players to play football, hence, constantly trying to beat the press by bypassing it. i.e hoofing it over the oppositions heads.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Anyone else find it quite staggering how easily our players seem to panic when put under any kind of sightest pressure at either end of the pitch?

We're second in the league and quality wise that's probably about right, yet we showed less composure on the ball today than you'll see from any other PL side, including the bottom ones. Almost no one willing to pick a pass out from the back, or even take the care to clear the ball properly. Most times we did get forwards, not being able to pick a pass or a decision, and instead just charging into defenders or shooting in a panic, or freezing completely.

It's actually a bit embarassing when you watch teams with much worse players (e.g. West Ham), play against the likes of City and Chelsea, and pick passes, play their way up the pitch, and play football under pressure as if it is no problem for them. Then in the exact same situation we make it look like it is impossible.

Lukaku today for example. Every time the ball went to him you could almost see the blood rush to his head...he actually had the ball in dangerous positions more than enough times to hurt City. He missed an easy chance, fired wide on his weak foot in a good position instead of shifting the ball. Twice got in behind their defence then just panicked and ended up running into a defender he'd already beaten. Cost us the game with a completely unecessary panic clearance (as a team we must be close to about 100 of these in the last two games alone).

And he is just an example of what most of our players were doing. Only Matic, Martial, and Valencia showed any ability to keep their head. Of the rest, Lingard was the only one with his head screwed on enough to even attempt to put in a footballing performance.

If we want too be taken seriously as title contenders, we can't really have over half our outfield players turning into a non league side every time there is a bit of pressure. Imagine what they'd be like in a game like today if there was actually a league title or cup on the line.

This. People are gonna blame tactics, formations, shapes, Mourinho etc but the biggest problem today was the complete lack of composure and fear in our basic play. And it's not the first time this season, it happened against Chelsea and Liverpool too, which makes me think some of our players simply can't handle the big game occasion, unfortunately the biggest culprit is Romelu Lukaku and I think the fact he knows hes been criticized for his big game performances are probably playing on his mind.

 

[Solius]

I think part of it is that teams like West Ham are expected to lose, there is less pressure on them so they'll try these kinds of passes and ball retention cause they'll likely get spanked anyway. That also means we need players who can deal with that pressure though.

Matic is absolutely excellent at it. We need more players like him.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I think that was Jose's instruction, sadly. Well I don't think he ever trusts his players to play football, hence, constantly trying to beat the press by bypassing it. i.e hoofing it over the oppositions heads.

Nah, I don't think it's completely on Jose. A large majority of our players literally hoof whenever they're pressed. Why was Lindelof able to execute some lovely forward passes whereas Smalling, Rojo, Herrera and Young were not capable of the same? The fact that Lindelof came on and barely hoofed once illustrates it wasn't a plan to hoof at all opportunities. It's been a problem for years - go back to the 5-3 loss to Leicester for instance.

 

[Kostur]

I think it'd help if someone would simply say to Rojo or Young or anyone else "hey, stop hoofing the ball, you clown" once in a while. Obviously it has to be someone with authority and the confidence i.e. Pogba, Carrick or Ibra.

Apart from bypassing the midfield as suggested by @MaxiPaxi, I also think that this stems simply from shit technique, against lesser teams where the players are not of some astonishing quality you can let it slide but sadly at the highest level it can get easily exposed.

Funnily enough, I think that's why Fellaini kicks into the discussion so much. It's not only that Jose likes his attitude, it's simply that he needs him, or more like our players need him as they can play it long (when they have to, not 24/7) to him and he'll get the ball, Lukaku for all his improving in this aspect doesn't possess this ability yet.

 

[#07]

We wet the bed with embarrassing regularity. It’s the kind of thing that makes you think even if we had the 11 point lead we’d collapse under pressure in the run in.

Not sure what we can do to fix it. Some of these players have won Premier League. Some have won leagues in other counties. For whatever reason they go wobbly when in red and it counts.

Hopefully Jose can find the answer. If he can’t who can?

 

[Beachryan]

It has to at least somewhat be reflecting the quality of the coaching staff.

There are great stories about the 'rondos' at United under Fergie - and how crucial they were for building up your position in the squad. Players fought hard to make it into the elite groups, which could only be achieved by working in your close control, touch and composure.

It impacts the defensive side too.

Looking around the league, we're genuinely one of the worst in that respect. Far 'less' players and teams show composure under pressure and play their way out.

 

[sincher]

This is all true, but we didn't pick a team to keep the ball, we were purely trying to dig in and hit on the quick counter. Otherwise Mata would have played for a start. Pogba was a big miss too. I would say those two plus Martial are our highest quality footballers with the ball at their feet. Maybe Mourinho didn't feel without Pogba that we could play that way. Still disappointing to punt it so often and cede possession so easily.

 

[JPRouve]

We wet the bed with embarrassing regularity. It’s the kind of thing that makes you think even if we had the 11 point lead we’d collapse under pressure in the run in.

Not sure what we can do to fix it. Some of these players have won Premier League. Some have won leagues in other counties. For whatever reason they go wobbly when in red and it counts.

Hopefully Jose can find the answer. If he can’t who can?

At the exception of Ibrahimovic, they were all support players. They weren't the players that are supposed to "lift their bollocks". It's something that every french witnessed with France between 2004 and 2006, when Thuram, Zidane and Makélélé came back and took the reigns, the team was totally different. These players had the ability to figuratively take a game by the collar and inspire everyone around them.

 

[noodlehair]

This. People are gonna blame tactics, formations, shapes, Mourinho etc but the biggest problem today was the complete lack of composure and fear in our basic play. And it's not the first time this season, it happened against Chelsea and Liverpool too, which makes me think some of our players simply can't handle the big game occasion, unfortunately the biggest culprit is Romelu Lukaku and I think the fact he knows hes been criticized for his big game performances are probably playing on his mind.

It's been going on since LVG's second season. I mean I didn't like him, but there were games where it seemed like no matter what he did it woulldn't matter, as the players wouldn't have enough about them mentally to make it work. Games like away at Chelsea when he actually had us in front and controlling the game. Then when it came near to the end we just started hoofing it and charging around like fecking idiots.

You start to wonder whether Mourinho's "negative tactics" are just oour players not being brave or composed enough to actually TRY and play football. I mean, I doubt Jose told us to play 70 minutes against Southampton as if we were a goal up against Barcelona and had been reduced to 9 men. I doubt he told the players today to concede two goals due to stupid panicking.

He didn't tell Young to hoof the ball 50 times, cost us a goal by missing a simple header then play everyone onside from a corner he was nowhere near, then have some kind of mental break down just because Raheem Sterling ran past him. He didn't tell Lukaku to have a sugar rush every time the ball went within 10 metres of him. He doesn't tell Herrera to just boot the ball up in the air if it comes near him when he is marked.

 

[Backrow Singer]

We just don't have any options. Herrera's distribution is poor for me. Matic gets the ball and looks ahead of him - he's got Lakaku 40 yards up the pitch, Martial and Rashford high and wide, Lingard who doesn't have those intricate skills IMO. The only options are the full backs and when the ball goes wide, they have even less available to them.

You see City today, they've got Silva coming short, De Bruyne takes that space up, the two wingers can play on the inside.

Pogba links play together for us, he links Matic and gives the front players options. Take him out and it becomes difficult.

 

[breakout67]

The frustrating thing about that game, was we actually played out from the back as soon as City scored that goal. I find it hard to believe that Mourinho told the players to pass the ball only if we were losing the game.

Lukaku was very frustrated with the 100 long balls he had to chase from Rojo, and he was pointing at the midfield and telling Rojo to pass to them. I don't think hoofball was our plan. It's just some of the players couldnt handle the pressure.

 

[wolvored]

Yeah, we do tend to look like a deer in the headlights when we face quality opposition. We were never going to out pass City but the inability to string 5-6 passes together to relieve the pressure or make them retreat into a defensive shape was annoying to say the least.

Exactly. Maybe the players are told to move it up the pitch as quickly as possible, but even against supposedly inferior teams the players struggle. Only Matic and Pogba seem comfortable on the ball. Martial Lukaku and Rashford try and run with it to mediocre success, but mainly we dont seem to be able to hold onto it for long.

 

[wolvored]

This is all true, but we didn't pick a team to keep the ball, we were purely trying to dig in and hit on the quick counter. Otherwise Mata would have played for a start. Pogba was a big miss too. I would say those two plus Martial are our highest quality footballers with the ball at their feet. Maybe Mourinho didn't feel without Pogba that we could play that way. Still disappointing to punt it so often and cede possession so easily.

The only change would have been Pogba for Herrera. Mata has been poor when he plays from the start

 

[acnumber9]

Again, wonder if we blame the players for that or the manager. We used to have a lot of possession under LVG with pretty much the same players, but now it's like the ball is a bomb that needs to be kicked as far and as soon as possible. The players ssem to be scared of losing the ballin dangerous areas, so they just punt it up field.

We kept the ball at the back because teams let us do it because it wasn't hurting them. We were no better on the ball then than we are now. Jose will never having us playing like that or like City because it's not his style but a number of the players we have aren't very good at football.

That's not to say they're all bad but if you look at the examples of Martial and Rashford, for all the qualities they have, they aren't good passers. Valencia and Matic won't give the ball away much but they're just steady passers. Only Pogba and Mata have any kind of consistent quality to their passing. And possibly Blind to an extent. That's why we struggle in those areas. And I don't think Guardiola would have them doing much better either.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We kept the ball at the back because teams let us do it because it wasn't hurting them. We were no better on the ball then than we are now. Jose will never having us playing like that or like City because it's not his style but a number of the players we have aren't very good at football.

That's not to say they're all bad but if you look at the examples of Martial and Rashford, for all the qualities they have, they aren't good passers. Valencia and Matic won't give the ball away much but they're just steady passers. Only Pogba and Mata have any kind of consistent quality to their passing. And possibly Blind to an extent. That's why we struggle in those areas. And I don't think Guardiola would have them doing much better either.

Passing aside it’s equal parts incredible and depressing that Matic arrived here with a reputation as a run of the mill destroyer but seems the only player, bar Pogba, willing or able to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park. Just basic stuff. Making your marker guess which way you’ll turn to buy a moment for a pass, or dropping a shoulder to create some space. Shocking how he so often looks a level above everyone around him in this regard.

 

[JPRouve]

Passing aside it’s equal parts incredible and depressing that Matic arrived here with a reputation as a run of the mill destroyer but seems the only player, bar Pogba, willing or able to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park. Just basic stuff. Making your marker guess which way you’ll turn to buy a moment for a pass, or dropping a shoulder to create some space. Shocking how he so often looks a level above everyone around him in this regard.

You have to wonder how these people can pretend to watch football.

 

[noodlehair]

Passing aside it’s equal parts incredible and depressing that Matic arrived here with a reputation as a run of the mill destroyer but seems the only player, bar Pogba, willing or able to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park. Just basic stuff. Making your marker guess which way you’ll turn to buy a moment for a pass, or dropping a shoulder to create some space. Shocking how he so often looks a level above everyone around him in this regard.

He does look a level above. He looked it today and he didn't even play well. He was better than the rest because he wasn't willing to release the ball unless it was to a team mate. The last two games we've kept giving up chances n our gal because players can't do this. Some of them get in such a panic they can't even clear it properly. How many times in the last two games have we failed to even clear a simple balll, which most other teams would just gather up and use to keep possession. It cost us a goal today, it coould have cost several more. It led to about 8 chances for Arsenal.

It's absolutely fecking ridiculous. I'm begining to think it can only be because our players are just really fecking stupid so lack the capacity to deal with a game of football mentally when the opposition start asking them questions. As that would allso explain our blunt refusal to take corners correctly, or defend them correctly. Or the idiotic spells in games you just don't see form other teams...like today when City spent about 3 minutes keeping possession by deliberately booting it off of our own players and out for a throw. It happened about 8 times before any of our players were smart enough to stop falling for it. For al the good points there have been this season, it really is unbelievable at times. We go into difficult games and do more to create problems for ourselves than the opposition do.

 

[acnumber9]

Passing aside it’s equal parts incredible and depressing that Matic arrived here with a reputation as a run of the mill destroyer but seems the only player, bar Pogba, willing or able to put his foot on the ball in the centre of the park. Just basic stuff. Making your marker guess which way you’ll turn to buy a moment for a pass, or dropping a shoulder to create some space. Shocking how he so often looks a level above everyone around him in this regard.

He also has the balls to actually take the ball and keep it which again only a few of our players would today. Valencia and Young I would say didn't look like they didn't want it but that's three players of ten. Can we really be surprised when we don't keep the ball well?

 

[RedIke]

By far my biggest issue with the squad today. Terrified of making a semi difficult pass.

 

[The United]

This. People are gonna blame tactics, formations, shapes, Mourinho etc but the biggest problem today was the complete lack of composure and fear in our basic play. And it's not the first time this season, it happened against Chelsea and Liverpool too, which makes me think some of our players simply can't handle the big game occasion, unfortunately the biggest culprit is Romelu Lukaku and I think the fact he knows hes been criticized for his big game performances are probably playing on his mind.

Or they don't suit the formation, instruction, shapes, tactics, mourinho. I see it very simple. If what you said about how we played like scared in all those games which are against big teams, it must be because they are not comfortable with the way they have to play in those.

We had worse players and 'worse' manager in LVG before and his team usually didn't play like 'scared' against big teams.

So...it is interesting.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Or they don't suit the formation, instruction, shapes, tactics, mourinho. I see it very simple. If what you said about how we played like scared in all those games which are against big teams, it must be because they are not comfortable with the way they have to play in those.

We had worse players and 'worse' manager in LVG before and his team usually didn't play like 'scared' against big teams.

So...it is interesting.

"They must not be comfortable with the way they have to play" such a kop out excuse. They're professional footballers playing for Manchester United, if being asked to play defensive/counter attacking football causes them so much distress that they can't string a few passes together then we might as well shut down the club tomorrow.
I think you've reinvented history there aswell, under Lvg we produced a 3-0 defeat at Arsenal, a 2-0 Europa League defeat to Liverpool that I'd describe as absolutely woeful. That Liverpool game especially, we didn't have a clue what we were doing, in fact I specifically remember us smashing the ball up to Fellaini over and over again and Rashford basically playing as a Lwb.
Lvg set us up defensively in numerous "big games". The only time he didn't was when we had that insane run of performances where we destroyed Spurs, Liverpool and City.
There's also the fact if our players aren't capable of keeping composed and passing the ball in this tactic in these kind of games just how the feck are they gonna do it playing a dominant attacking possession based game which requires the constant need to be composed and to pass the ball with constant efficiency and regularity.

 

[The United]

"They must not be comfortable with the way they have to play" such a kop out excuse. They're professional footballers playing for Manchester United, if being asked to play defensive/counter attacking football causes them so much distress that they can't string a few passes together then we might as well shut down the club tomorrow.
I think you've reinvented history there aswell, under Lvg we produced a 3-0 defeat at Arsenal, a 2-0 Europa League defeat to Liverpool that I'd describe as absolutely woeful. That Liverpool game especially, we didn't have a clue what we were doing, in fact I specifically remember us smashing the ball up to Fellaini over and over again and Rashford basically playing as a Lwb.
Lvg set us up defensively in numerous "big games". The only time he didn't was when we had that insane run of performances where we destroyed Spurs, Liverpool and City.
There's also the fact if our players aren't capable of keeping composed and passing the ball in this tactic in these kind of games just how the feck are they gonna do it playing a dominant attacking possession based game which requires the constant need to be composed and to pass the ball with constant efficiency and regularity.

LVG did lose a few of those games and performed badly. He did have a lot of faults and flaws. But, his team hardly ever seem like 'scared' even at anfield. Even for a game, jose has yet to get his team perform something like that away from home in those grounds so far.

It is not an excuse. If the same thing happens again and again, you gotta question why this keep happening and if should do something to change it especially when we didn't get the result we should get. It is very simple like I said.

It is hard to be composed and pass the ball well when you didn't play any of the players who are well known for it in the line up. It is hard to do it when you let the other team dominate you. It is hard to do it when you don't have momentum to do it and all you do is chasing shadows.

If you play any kind of sports, you would know. It does not mean there are not players who can't do it. They are rare and evidently we don't have them enough. And then you question the guy who is the top what he is doing to fix it because it is his responsibility.

As you say we are manchester united and players came here to play like manchester united. And maybe they are not comfortable with how they are asked to play sometimes as they might think it is not the united way? I mean maybe? I don't know. I am trying to use your logic.

Unless you mean we should be playing like stoke at times and it is the united way.

 

[cletus7]

It's been going on since LVG's second season. I mean I didn't like him, but there were games where it seemed like no matter what he did it woulldn't matter, as the players wouldn't have enough about them mentally to make it work. Games like away at Chelsea when he actually had us in front and controlling the game. Then when it came near to the end we just started hoofing it and charging around like fecking idiots.

You start to wonder whether Mourinho's "negative tactics" are just oour players not being brave or composed enough to actually TRY and play football. I mean, I doubt Jose told us to play 70 minutes against Southampton as if we were a goal up against Barcelona and had been reduced to 9 men. I doubt he told the players today to concede two goals due to stupid panicking.

He didn't tell Young to hoof the ball 50 times, cost us a goal by missing a simple header then play everyone onside from a corner he was nowhere near, then have some kind of mental break down just because Raheem Sterling ran past him. He didn't tell Lukaku to have a sugar rush every time the ball went within 10 metres of him. He doesn't tell Herrera to just boot the ball up in the air if it comes near him when he is marked.

What you say is right... but, if Maurinho is putting such a big emphasis on drilling naturally gifted attacking players to defend for their place in the team is it a coincidence when they lose their authority in posession and start to become fearful? Must be very hard to maintain belief when what you’re good at is undermined on the training ground.

 

[Ludens the Red]

LVG did lose a few of those games and performed badly. He did have a lot of faults and flaws. But, his team hardly ever seem like 'scared' even at anfield. Even for a game, jose has yet to get his team perform something like that away from home in those grounds so far.

In that Europa League game at Anfield, I would 100% describe it as a performance where the players were "scared". It was our worse performance at Anfield since I've ever supported United. I also think you're underestimating how difficult it is to go away from home to a top side and get a performance and result.
You only have to look at Pochetinno and Spurs, now a lot on here will tell you how amazing Poch is tactically but he has a solitary ONE victory away from home against the top 6 in his three and a half years in England. A Mourinho led United has deservedly beaten Sours at home two years in a row. How many times over the last few years have we seen Arsenal go away from home in these games and be absolutely pummeled? it's not easy at all. Even City before this season other than at Old Trafford last year they were soundly beaten at Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool away. This despite possessing the best group of players in the league.

It is not an excuse. If the same thing happens again and again, you gotta question why this keep happening and if should do something to change it especially when we didn't get the result we should get. It is very simple like I said.

You say again and again but that's not really true is it. We don't play counter attacking/defensive football every week, there are less than a handful of fixtures Mourinho chooses to adopt these tactics in and it isn't always against the big teams.

It is hard to be composed and pass the ball well when you didn't play any of the players who are well known for it in the line up. It is hard to do it when you let the other team dominate you. It is hard to do it when you don't have momentum to do it and all you do is chasing shadows.

If you play any kind of sports, you would know. It does not mean there are not players who can't do it. They are rare and evidently we don't have them enough. And then you question the guy who is the top what he is doing to fix it because it is his responsibility.

I'm not sure what Mourinho is supposed to do when our two best passers and most composed on the ball are unavailable due to injury and suspension, I mean do you think if City didnt have Silva and De Bruyne today, they'd have produced the same level of performance?

Mourinho wasn't lucky enough to inherit a De Bruyne and Silva so unfortunately yes we evidently don't have enough players comfortable and cute on the ball. We signed Pogba for 89 million and Matic, I mean it's pretty obvious Mourinho knows its a problem area, at least he hasn't blown significant amounts of money on players incapable of passing and being comfortable on the ball like the two previous managers we had.

As you say we are manchester united and players came here to play like manchester united. And maybe they are not comfortable with how they are asked to play sometimes as they might think it is not the united way? I mean maybe? I don't know. I am trying to use your logic.

Unless you mean we should be playing like stoke at times and it is the united way.

Yeah, I don't think the players being unable to string a pass together and being afraid of the ball is down to them thinking we were set up in a "non united way". Whilst I question the mentality of our players, I'd like to think non of them deliberately play badly as soon as Mourinho authorizes them to not play the United way.

 

[noodlehair]

What you say is right... but, if Maurinho is putting such a big emphasis on drilling naturally gifted attacking players to defend for their place in the team is it a coincidence when they lose their authority in posession and start to become fearful? Must be very hard to maintain belief when what you’re good at is undermined on the training ground.

Is that what Mourinho does? Because it didn't seem to happen anywhere else he's managed. Where as this bunch of players were as bad at keeping their composure under LVG, who pretty much couldn't be more different to Jose in terms of coaching and tactics.

 

[Dominos]

I'm not one to lay into the manager usually, but to absolve him of blame is absurd to me. I'm not saying it wasn't a problem before he arrived, but 18 months of his coaching and 300 million spent on players he wants should be enough to show some sort of improvement.

This is a very clear pattern in big games at the very least.

We went to Anfield and couldn't string 2 passes together, played a lot of long balls to an isolated Lukaku, couldn't counter attack effectively. Chelsea we got pinned back and overwhelmed, couldn't counter attack effectively. Today's game the same. Loads of big games last season followed the same pattern, City away, Spurs away, Liverpool away, Arsenal away, Chelsea away.

He's worked with these players for 18 months, he has to coach and drill them to create better passing options for each other, and force them to play even if they don't want to.

Gary Neville said at half time today Mourinho will be fuming at the lack of composure in the first half and will be screaming at his players to stop treating it like a hot potato... Can I honestly say I saw a massive difference 2nd half? I think the manager doesn't trust his players enough to play on the ground against a qaulity team who's pressing. I don't think in the slightest he's discouraging our players from going long, but they're just not listening. Maybe we go long slightly more than he'd like but there's no chance it consistently happens against the manager's wishes.

I actually have no problem with us not having a lot of posssession, but you have to be good at the style you're playing, but we're not even good at it. For a team that sets up to counter attack any decent team we play, we're fecking shite at it for the most part. Too many games we look completely inept at launching dangerous counter attacks, we get pinned back and resort to hoofing up to a lone striker when there's no team mate within 30 yards of him.

We had a welcome exception to this against Arsenal to be fair, where despite our faults on conceding chances and getting pinned back, we actually looked dangerous going forward.

 

[The United]

In that Europa League game at Anfield, I would 100% describe it as a performance where the players were "scared". It was our worse performance at Anfield since I've ever supported United. I also think you're underestimating how difficult it is to go away from home to a top side and get a performance and result.
You only have to look at Pochetinno and Spurs, now a lot on here will tell you how amazing Poch is tactically but he has a solitary ONE victory away from home against the top 6 in his three and a half years in England. A Mourinho led United has deservedly beaten Sours at home two years in a row. How many times over the last few years have we seen Arsenal go away from home in these games and be absolutely pummeled? it's not easy at all. Even City before this season other than at Old Trafford last year they were soundly beaten at Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool away. This despite possessing the best group of players in the league.



You say again and again but that's not really true is it. We don't play counter attacking/defensive football every week, there are less than a handful of fixtures Mourinho chooses to adopt these tactics in and it isn't always against the big teams.


I'm not sure what Mourinho is supposed to do when our two best passers and most composed on the ball are unavailable due to injury and suspension, I mean do you think if City didnt have Silva and De Bruyne today, they'd have produced the same level of performance?

Mourinho wasn't lucky enough to inherit a De Bruyne and Silva so unfortunately yes we evidently don't have enough players comfortable and cute on the ball. We signed Pogba for 89 million and Matic, I mean it's pretty obvious Mourinho knows its a problem area, at least he hasn't blown significant amounts of money on players incapable of passing and being comfortable on the ball like the two previous managers we had.




Yeah, I don't think the players being unable to string a pass together and being afraid of the ball is down to them thinking we were set up in a "non united way". Whilst I question the mentality of our players, I'd like to think non of them deliberately play badly as soon as Mourinho authorizes them to not play the United way.

Ok so you don't think it is the manager's job or responsibility to get his team to play how he wants them to?

And we only have two good passers in the squad? If so, Jose even gets more trouble himself for not getting more technical players.

You do know that City missed some of their first teamers too right? That didn't seem to make their passing or game plan goes total shit.

 

[ghagua]

We have this issue for a long time against big European teams, now we seem to have an issue with Premier league teams as well. That's something that needs to be worked on in training, well at least I can live in hope that it would be worked on in training instead of preparing to hit teams on the break.

 

[Beachryan]

Possibly worth mentioning how we did our utmost to go out in the EL semi-finals. Looked like a bunch of absolute children out there in the last 5 minutes.

As many will say - anything that pervasive is the responsibility of the manager and coaching staff.

 

[RedDevils23]

I think this is indicative of a fundamental lack of attacking coaching in our side. For example, City today played well, they passed and moved, had runners off the ball. When's the last time we had this type of offensive fluidity? It baffles me that a club of our stature fails at the fundamentals of basic attacking football. Rarely do we see any off the ball movement, in fact, we haven't seen this in YEARS, even during the latter years of the SAF era. It's frankly a joke.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Martial looks our most composed and confident player. And he's 22. That in itself is worrysome.

It's a more complex problem than individuals lacking composure though. They resort to rash actions because they don't trust each other and the unit when it comes to football quality. That's what Jose is paid to instill. To work the players and put in place a system whereby were confident of playing fluent and cohesive. That we were unable to shows that the manager has much to prove at United in this regard.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'm not one to lay into the manager usually, but to absolve him of blame is absurd to me. I'm not saying it wasn't a problem before he arrived, but 18 months of his coaching and 300 million spent on players he wants should be enough to show some sort of improvement.

This is a very clear pattern in big games at the very least.

We went to Anfield and couldn't string 2 passes together, played a lot of long balls to an isolated Lukaku, couldn't counter attack effectively. Chelsea we got pinned back and overwhelmed, couldn't counter attack effectively. Today's game the same. Loads of big games last season followed the same pattern, City away, Spurs away, Liverpool away, Arsenal away, Chelsea away.

He's worked with these players for 18 months, he has to coach and drill them to create better passing options for each other, and force them to play even if they don't want to.

Gary Neville said at half time today Mourinho will be fuming at the lack of composure in the first half and will be screaming at his players to stop treating it like a hot potato... Can I honestly say I saw a massive difference 2nd half? I think the manager doesn't trust his players enough to play on the ground against a qaulity team who's pressing. I don't think in the slightest he's discouraging our players from going long, but they're just not listening. Maybe we go long slightly more than he'd like but there's no chance it consistently happens against the manager's wishes.

I actually have no problem with us not having a lot of posssession, but you have to be good at the style you're playing, but we're not even good at it. For a team that sets up to counter attack any decent team we play, we're fecking shite at it for the most part. Too many games we look completely inept at launching dangerous counter attacks, we get pinned back and resort to hoofing up to a lone striker when there's no team mate within 30 yards of him.

We had a welcome exception to this against Arsenal to be fair, where despite our faults on conceding chances and getting pinned back, we actually looked dangerous going forward.

Excellent post. Fully agree with this.

Always said I don't mind not having possession, but you have to carry some form of threat and unity in how you play when you do get the ball. We rarely look like like we've a plan going forward except for hoofs in the big games.(except for our counter attacks vs Arsenal).

 

[Frank Grimes]

Starts at the back. Smalling is a dreadful ball player, he looks like he is going to have a heart attack when he is pressed. There was a few instances today where he kicked the ball out for a throw in when a decent defender would have found a United shirt.

He is far from the only one though, apart from Martial(First half) or Matic all our players were panicky on the ball today. It's unbelievable that we can't keep possession better and build attacks from a deep position.

 

[Ace of Spades]

We kept the ball at the back because teams let us do it because it wasn't hurting them. We were no better on the ball then than we are now. Jose will never having us playing like that or like City because it's not his style but a number of the players we have aren't very good at football.

That's not to say they're all bad but if you look at the examples of Martial and Rashford, for all the qualities they have, they aren't good passers. Valencia and Matic won't give the ball away much but they're just steady passers. Only Pogba and Mata have any kind of consistent quality to their passing. And possibly Blind to an extent. That's why we struggle in those areas. And I don't think Guardiola would have them doing much better either.

We kept the ball better under LVG because the team was coached to do so. We had better composure than what we have now, that is an undeniable fact. Yes we did pass it around in non threatening areas, and were toothless in attack, which was the biggest criticism against LVG, but we are not even doing that now. Even when the players are under no pressure, we just kept hoofing it and giving away possession and brought more pressure on us. A period of depriving City of the ball would have helped us settle a bit, even if it was meaningless possession.

We know Jose won't play Pep style of football and nobody is expecting that, but we can ask for better than what looked like we were coached by Tony Pulis. I am sure it is not too much to ask for a little cohesion and fluidity that any half decently coached team can show.

As for Jose not having players, that is non sense as he does have the players, it is at least partly down to him that we look disjointed and lack composure with the ball. Anyone can see our shape when defending is great, the players look well drilled and know what to do. The problem is with the ball, we look clueless in build up play, like the team have never played together before, and that can't be just blamed on players. Teams like Southampton, Watford, Burnley etc. show more composure and better build up than us, do they have better more techniclal players than us ??

We have players that can keep the ball well and have the technical ability to do so. As for Rashford and Martial, they are good passers, not sure why their passing is being questioned. They can't compare to a KDB, Silva or Pogba, but they don't look any inferior to Sterling or Sane. Matic is no worse than Fernandinho, Valencia and Young and not worse than Walker and Delph. Pogba is not worse than KDB, and Mata is not much worse than Silva. There may be some differences, but not enough to say that we don't have good enough players to do better.

Pep would absolutely do better with the players we have in terms of composure and fluidity with the ball, just as Jose would do worse than Pep with City's team, because they are very different managers who have different styles. But then again, we are not asking the team to play like they were coached by Pep, or try to copy City, just better than looking like we are relegation fodder fighting for a draw. Surely, we can ask to do that much with the players we have.

 

[wiz4231]

Quoting myself from other thread

When you've spent 60+ mins sitting off the ball and have defensive tactics instilled onto by a defensive coach, it's a bit difficult to get up from the dogging position on all fours and have a go, morale is not great when your told cohesively as a team your not good enough to take it to them, so bend over and take it. It's a disgrace for a big team like UTD, disrespectful.
Composure comes when you told your good enough, go and out and play your game, when confidence is shown in ability, players are trusted to win. Not when players asked not to lose.
What would you rather hear as player, what would give you more confidence?
Go out there and win or go out there and don't lose?

We bought a striker for £75M who getting 1-2 chances per game. That's an unbelievable amount of pressure him to perform, Mourhino doing nothing but shooting this lads confidence. After his missed chance he stood still with his head down, that's not a good sign. Not a sign for him and not a good sign for other players.

 

[shield]

I love Hererra’s attitude but he has to be one of the least composed central midfielders I’ve ever seen. Seems to spread a sense of sheer panic everywhere he goes. The shitty post-Fergie era brings many bad memories but his habit of fecking SMASHING the ball miles up in the air under any sort of pressure near our goal will be right up there...

Yes, was very annoyed to see Herrera do this yesterday. Like, what is wrong with him. What is the point of playing a player who keeps panicking even when the least threatning player is seen closing him. Midfield is so important in Mourinho's strategy and Herrera sees a lot of the ball, yet all I see him doing is making two inch sideways or backwards passes or hoofing it. Why is he so frantic with everything? There is so much more that he can do. Like, even Fellaini manages to do something threatning once a while. Herrera looks like someone who is just there because Pogba is injured and we don't have any other option.

 

[shield]

There does seem to be some problem with our passing. It is quite clear. We also did this against Arsenal, where there were we were camped in our half for long periods and were unable to bring the ball out and that was with Pogba in the team. It think, as we keep replacing our current players, this problem will slowly go away.

The main culprits are Smalling, Valencia, Herrera and Lukaku. Young too, not because he lacks ability, but because he lost a little pace and power.

Rashord, and also Martial to some extent, cannot be categorized as technically poor players, but their ability to use these strengths depend on how the team is behaving. When we become excessively defensive they are get crowded out. They lack the Hazard, Coutinho, Sanchez, Silva type of ability to play through a crowd.

I am quite confident we will be replacing our full backs next year and we will buy another midfielder, so things will look much better next year. Lukaku, if fear, may continue to be a handicap for us.

 

[Minimalist]

So (genuinely) without wanting to make this a Mourinho vs the Players type discussion, how does this get fixed?

Mourinho already had a season under his belt with these players - you'd think he would know who has the stomach for winning things. Do people think he just needs more money/players?

I mean I'm not trying to be funny but if Mourinho's job is simply to pick and buy players - I'm not sure we need a man on his wages for that. There's managers down the league who can point out the better players out there. I think there's a real lack of accountability on what coaching these players are receiving on a weekly basis when they perform like they did yesterday.