Lamine Yamal

Maradona wasn't explosive and Messi became faster with age but neither of them were this good at the age of 17.
Maradona at 17 was probably better, he was a child genius, and started playing for Argentinos Juniors when he was still only 15.

I saw Messi when he started playing for Barcelona and he was quality, but Rijkaard used him very sparingly at the beginning, whereas Flick point blank refuses to rest Lamine at any point ever.
 
I don't think it makes much sense to compare them at this age. Messi was so outstandingly talented that most rxpected him to become the best player in the world someday but very few if any foretold that he'd turn into a player who would not only be the best playmaker and dribbler in the world but also casually outscore even the most prolific strikers season after season. And that wasn't because his outstanding technical and physical abilities but mainly because he developed a genius level football IQ. Similarly, nobody would have expected CR7 to become the player he was because he didn't exactly come across as a player with create spatial awareness and off the ball movement in his youth. Yamal is already showing great football IQ but player development isn't linear and even if he was better than 17 year old Messi, it doesn't hold much predictive value.

Look at Mbappe for instance, he was incredibly mature for a u20 player and probably had the best off the ball movement we've ever seen from a teenager, yet he didn't really improve that aspect of his game all that much but others.
 
I don't think it makes much sense to compare them at this age. Messi was so outstandingly talented that most rxpected him to become the best player in the world someday but very few if any foretold that he'd turn into a player who would not only be the best playmaker and dribbler in the world but also casually outscore even the most prolific strikers season after season. And that wasn't because his outstanding technical and physical abilities but mainly because he developed a genius level football IQ. Similarly, nobody would have expected CR7 to become the player he was because he didn't exactly come across as a player with create spatial awareness and off the ball movement in his youth. Yamal is already showing great football IQ but player development isn't linear and even if he was better than 17 year old Messi, it doesn't hold much predictive value.

Look at Mbappe for instance, he was incredibly mature for a u20 player and probably had the best off the ball movement we've ever seen from a teenager, yet he didn't really improve that aspect of his game all that much but others.
Good post
 
Maradona wasn't explosive and Messi became faster with age but neither of them were this good at the age of 17.

Not at ALL...Messi wasn't mostly playing Senior, Diego was incredible.
 
Apparently his father is a Madrid fan.




Just trying to imagine what it would be like if my son ended up a star young player for Liverpool.

It would be a huge change and would be really difficult to get my head around but I think over time I’d be able to adjust and maybe even begin to enjoy having no children once more.
 
Just trying to imagine what it would be like if my son ended up a star young player for Liverpool.

It would be a huge change and would be really difficult to get my head around but I think over time I’d be able to adjust and maybe even begin to enjoy having no children once more.
My son becoming a star player means I get to live in luxury too. So...
 
Just trying to imagine what it would be like if my son ended up a star young player for Liverpool.

It would be a huge change and would be really difficult to get my head around but I think over time I’d be able to adjust and maybe even begin to enjoy having no children once more.
The money will help. :lol:
 
Finally (partly) rested. And yet it looks like the team can't play without him, FFS.
 
Just trying to imagine what it would be like if my son ended up a star young player for Liverpool.

It would be a huge change and would be really difficult to get my head around but I think over time I’d be able to adjust and maybe even begin to enjoy having no children once more.
crying-wiping-tears-with-money.gif
 
Finally (partly) rested. And yet it looks like the team can't play without him, FFS.
If either of Yamal or Pedri get injured, Barca are done. The reliance on these two is scary.

Also, love how Yamal has absolutely nailed that lobbed cross to the back post very similar to how Messi would send in that cross/pass to Alba/the left winger so consistently.
 
If either of Yamal or Pedri get injured, Barca are done. The reliance on these two is scary.

Also, love how Yamal has absolutely nailed that lobbed cross to the back post very similar to how Messi would send in that cross/pass to Alba/the left winger so consistently.
Agree pretty much with everything you've said. Hopefully they both have a clean bill of health till the end
 
Absolute joy to watch and yet another match where he creates so much. That being said, the comparisons to even a younger Messi are still quite off imo. Specifically with regards to his shooting, it feels like he's just very far away from being a great finisher. The minute he nails this aspect of the game, he'll be completely unplayable.
 
Absolute joy to watch and yet another match where he creates so much. That being said, the comparisons to even a younger Messi are still quite off imo. Specifically with regards to his shooting, it feels like he's just very far away from being a great finisher. The minute he nails this aspect of the game, he'll be completely unplayable.
His dribbling, while elite, isn’t Messi level. That, along with the finishing is going to be the biggest difference between the two players over time.

Messi's ability to consistently find the corners of the goal from anywhere within 20 yards with surgical precision is a really underrated quality that gets lost in the huge numbers that really belong to pure goalscorers.

But, I still believe he is going to be the best of generation; don't see anyone with his quality around.
 
Just seems so unfair to even bother comparing him to Messi (although it's inevitable). He could be the best player of his generation by a mile, win a handful of Ballon D'ors and still by nowhere near Messi's level.
 
Just seems so unfair to even bother comparing him to Messi (although it's inevitable). He could be the best player of his generation by a mile, win a handful of Ballon D'ors and still by nowhere near Messi's level.
Absolutely, he's an incredible player (already) in his own right but the Messi comparisons, unfortunately, will always persist. A bit similar, but to a less degree, to how Pedri is being routinely compared to Xavi/Iniesta this season.
His dribbling, while elite, isn’t Messi level. That, along with the finishing is going to be the biggest difference between the two players over time.

Messi's ability to consistently find the corners of the goal from anywhere within 20 yards with surgical precision is a really underrated quality that gets lost in the huge numbers that really belong to pure goalscorers.

But, I still believe he is going to be the best of generation; don't see anyone with his quality around.
Agreed! While Messi obviously worked on his finishing through the years, you could see his ability even when he was really young. Yamal's dribbling and passing ability and the "trickery" skillset already seems elite but you just don't see it in the finishing yet, despite some of the wonder goals he's scored. I hope he gets it because he is the closest we have to a Messi right now.
 
Just seems so unfair to even bother comparing him to Messi (although it's inevitable). He could be the best player of his generation by a mile, win a handful of Ballon D'ors and still by nowhere near Messi's level.
He's likely going to be a different kind of player. Lamine Yamal at present has about 25 goals in his career. Messi has 858.

I don't know if Yamal is going to be able to play centrally or whether he will become more prolific in the future. These things are not known. But it's likely that he could end up being more a Dinho type (in terms of numbers) than a Messi type.

The comparisons are pointless as you say, because a proper comparison will only be possible when they've both finished their careers. People always want to compare the whole of Messi (the best or second best career in football history) with the infancy of Yamal, which is silly.

I would very much like the number 10 shirt to be taken away from Ansu Fati (much as I feel bad for him) and given to Lamine, though. He is the real successor. I'm glad the cockamamie idea of retiring the shirt gained no traction.
 
His dribbling, while elite, isn’t Messi level. That, along with the finishing is going to be the biggest difference between the two players over time.

Messi's ability to consistently find the corners of the goal from anywhere within 20 yards with surgical precision is a really underrated quality that gets lost in the huge numbers that really belong to pure goalscorers.

But, I still believe he is going to be the best of generation; don't see anyone with his quality around.
So basically CR7?
 
He's likely going to be a different kind of player. Lamine Yamal at present has about 25 goals in his career. Messi has 858.

I don't know if Yamal is going to be able to play centrally or whether he will become more prolific in the future. These things are not known. But it's likely that he could end up being more a Dinho type (in terms of numbers) than a Messi type.

The comparisons are pointless as you say, because a proper comparison will only be possible when they've both finished their careers. People always want to compare the whole of Messi (the best or second best career in football history) with the infancy of Yamal, which is silly.

I would very much like the number 10 shirt to be taken away from Ansu Fati (much as I feel bad for him) and given to Lamine, though. He is the real successor. I'm glad the cockamamie idea of retiring the shirt gained no traction.
Think it's just hard for any one player to be a similar player to Messi, he was 3 world class players in one. Unreasonable to expect anyone else to manage even 2 of those, let alone 3.
 
Absolute joy to watch and yet another match where he creates so much. That being said, the comparisons to even a younger Messi are still quite off imo. Specifically with regards to his shooting, it feels like he's just very far away from being a great finisher. The minute he nails this aspect of the game, he'll be completely unplayable.
He tried to do a very clever finish when he was clean through in the Mallorca game and messed it up, so ended up looking a bit foolish.

He's getting criticism from some quarters for trying too often to 'show off', but I'm in the opposite camp. I never want him to stop trying to do outrageous things. There's enough boring robots in modern football as it is. I hate that people are trying to kill this aspect of his game.
 
His dribbling, while elite, isn’t Messi level. That, along with the finishing is going to be the biggest difference between the two players over time.

Messi's ability to consistently find the corners of the goal from anywhere within 20 yards with surgical precision is a really underrated quality that gets lost in the huge numbers that really belong to pure goalscorers.

But, I still believe he is going to be the best of generation; don't see anyone with his quality around.
The only thing that is relevant right now is what Messi’s shooting and finishing were like at the age Yamal is right now; Messi wasn’t even playing top tier football yet.

Also, there are barely any posts from the time of his debut season that would go on to state he’d become the kind of goal scorer he did because that facet certainly wasn’t apparent when he first came to true prominence and then it went stratospheric, so plotting a course for Yamal’s shooting is pointless at the moment.
 
It’s stupid to compare him to Messi. He’s 17.

Messi at 17 hadn’t achieved what Yamal has, and wasn’t the key player Yamal is for both club and country.

Does that mean Yamal will go onto become the best player of all time? No.
 
Messi wasn't even a great finisher or anything that young. He only really started scoring consistently in 2007, a season and a half into his career as a starter for Barcelona

Lamine Yamal already shows great shooting technique, there's nothing suggesting he won't improve as a scorer, like Messi did
 
It’s stupid to compare him to Messi. He’s 17.

Messi at 17 hadn’t achieved what Yamal has, and wasn’t the key player Yamal is for both club and country.

Does that mean Yamal will go onto become the best player of all time? No.
All correct.
 
The only thing that is relevant right now is what Messi’s shooting and finishing were like at the age Yamal is right now; Messi wasn’t even playing top tier football yet.

Also, there are barely any posts from the time of his debut season that would go on to state he’d become the kind of goal scorer he did because that facet certainly wasn’t apparent when he first came to true prominence and then it went stratospheric, so plotting a course for Yamal’s shooting is pointless at the moment.
In fact, I'm sure there would be a lot of posts questioning whether he was, in fact, any good. What have you found?
 
In fact, I'm sure there would be a lot of posts questioning whether he was, in fact, any good. What have you found?
You can search “Messi” in the bar to the top right of the page if you select threads. It’ll become apparent that people started to process how special he was in stages, and it nearly all revolves around his dribbling and aggression. The goalscoring monster stuff follows on a couple of years later.
 
You can search “Messi” in the bar to the top right of the page if you select threads. It’ll become apparent that people started to process how special he was in stages, and it nearly all revolves around his dribbling and aggression. The goalscoring monster stuff follows on a couple of years later.
Thanks. A fascinating read. Here's some classics I unearthed, from December 2005, when Messi was already 18:

"saw him in the youth championship.
pure class. imo not the next maradona....but he IS very good.
I think Rooney is better though...."


"Sooo predictable: Never seen the kid go right"


"Said it once, and will say it again. Likes too much time with the ball and would be killed if he wasn't in Spain.

Only gets the time and space to do his thing because defenders are too busy watching Ronaldinho in Barca. If he ever moved to England people will immediately realize him for the showpony that he is."

:lol:


Just goes to show that it's very hard to know what Yamal will or won't be. I'm happy to just enjoy what he is.
 
Yep. Retconning the past is a particular bugbear of mine. Even Messi wasn’t spoken of as Messi until he was undeniable.
 
Yep. Retconning the past is a particular bugbear of mine. Even Messi wasn’t spoken of as Messi until he was undeniable.
Goes to show people don't know shit about this sport

Unlike me. I saw him at the U20 WC and knew he wasn't "next" Maradona. He *was* Maradona, with hardware upgrade. Y'all should just take my word as gospel
 
Goes to show people don't know shit about this sport

Unlike me. I saw him at the U20 WC and knew he wasn't "next" Maradona. He *was* Maradona, with hardware upgrade. Y'all should just take my word as gospel
I watched him at the YWC some time after his big announcement to the world where he’d been exclusively playing on the right. I was genuinely surprised by what I saw and my opinion changed a lot from there as he was a proper #10, playing like a maestro and calmly controlling tempo, which was very different from his hyperactive self in the very early years when he would just get the ball and, head down - charggeee!
 
"saw him in the youth championship.
pure class. imo not the next maradona....but he IS very good.
I think Rooney is better though...."
It sounds a bit ridiculous now and obviously Rooney is two years older, but I honestly think a 18 yo Rooney was better than 18 yo Messi.
 
It sounds a bit ridiculous now and obviously Rooney is two years older, but I honestly think a 18 yo Rooney was better than 18 yo Messi.
Some of the messages are clearly ridiculous, but reading that old stuff reminded me about some of the things that I myself thought about Messi at the time.

Like with regard to what you said about Rooney - he had a big man body already when he was 16. Messi by comparison was still very slight at 17 and 18, it took him a bit of time to fill out and get stronger.

Also the thing about always dribbling to the left, he did have a tendency to do that. The thing is, he could still almost always beat his man by dribbling to the left.

That's one thing I remember thinking Maradona was initially much better at, dribbling to the right, even though he was also very left-footed. Messi, of course, got much better at dribbling to the right. Just ask Jerome Boateng.

This is the thing about Yamal. Messi improved in so many ways, not just goalscoring. Yamal also has the capacity to improve, if he works on his game.
 
This is becoming a bit tedious regarding the Messi comparisons.

He is not similar to Messi in his approach due to differences in his atributes, this can be seen in both style and game, players with the pace, power and dribbling ability of a Messi, would always tend to run over teams, more in their youth, no matter how intelliegent they were since a kid, or their range of abilities already there, they would just burst like a ball of fire.

It doesn't matter if Messi due to diff reasons, that went from permitts, avoding loosing him for having too many top players, injuries, the level and sate of Barca when he appeared didn't started to be a regular sooner, just watch old vids from him in Reserve, his first matches, the differences are clearly there.
Messi was explosive and dribbling oriented since day one. Still, had his passes, his overall game of course, since he was an enganche as a kid in Newell's, yet his tendency to be electric was clear. Also while being "a tad sellfish" due to his ability, he was always since a boy: team oriented and like Zico, very goal oriented too.

Regarding Yamal, being in the spotlight since day one, has been awesome in dealing with that scenario. A very mature player most of times in his decision making and an ability that can provide him an All Time Status and even a priviledge place among those on the very very top. He just started and he already can retire in terms of titles and he had done great. He can end with what he already achieved and might be considered his progression as the best player ever, at least in terms of achievements, who the feck knows?. Yet on his own right, with his style, with his atributes.

To make direct comparisons in terms of atributes with Messi and conclude because he is already a starter doing amazing shyte he is intrinsically better in terms of ability and characteristics, it's simplistic, a tad silly and more when both are diff players in terms of build, tendencies, atributes, with of course lot of other aspects that both share in common.

To also think that Yamal cannot start scoring for fun in years to come? it's silly too, that can even have a greater build and while not in the same realm, improve his dribbling, it's silly too.
The only thing that can be said, it's that Messi was always more goal oriented in his youngster carreer, that still was this way even when he got closer to first division and at the same time he was as wasteful or even more than Yamal has been at times, I'll say even more because he put himself throught his dribbling in scoring potions time and again and he wasn't as calm as he rapidly became. More than probably because he wanted to forced his inclusion and he was a bit sellfish and rushed up plays in many of those ocassions.
At the end we can say YAMAL already HAS a carreer (and a great one) and he just started, when Messi was just merely starting.
Yet we can say that even if it was in reserve, just way less matches, etc, Messi was a diff specimen in terms of some atributes (more rare ones). And on the other hand, this doesn't mean that even with Messi tons of achievements in terms of titles, stats and such, Yamal cannot even surpasse those, more in the way he just started with a bang.

For me Yamal's intelligence, even the emotional one to deal with all the praise around and the way he just "plays", screams like the greatest.
Yamal "juega a la pelota" (like Diego, like R9, Like Pele, like Messi, etc in such regard they all feel the same), he treates the Pro Sport, like a game without forgetting that still is a Pro Sport and its demands. This is one of the greatest traits of the ones I feel are/were the greatest ever. So far he has been outstanding in that overall intelligence and THIS is a an tribute that I find time and again very hard to actually be praise by lots of fans.


PD side note: Let's agree with what the term history actually implies: the whole fecking extension of the game (this remineded me of a chat regarding Cristiano and that "he only", when players like Puskas already scored for fun even more than him and Messi in terms of ratio.
I know that in this forum we would tend to talk in morte recent terms, yet nor Yamal, nor Messi or Rooney, nor R9, nor Diego, nor Sivori, nor Pele, where before, after or in between the only really young kids playing at top flight first division football at high level to state those "only Rooney" and such.
What it's NEW with Yamal, it's him being in the Spotlight, in the most overexpose period of the game (due to current tech) doing his thing, a thing he does in a way like the greatest have done in the past, with an "amateur" approach.