Lamine Yamal

Kwabs said:
Indeed, it's much more foreign to Spain than Morocco is.

Re Yamal and fame, the cliche is that you stop developing when you become famous. But Pele got through it from a tiny age, and I'm confident Yamal will as well (though I don't think he's Pele).
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From what I know of Pele's time, he was seriously protected and in awe of his elders for both Brazil and Santos. I'd hazard a guess that being a global star then would be quite a bit different too, as even if everyone knew of him, they barely had a direct line to him outside of the NT or the Santos tours, and likewise, the media could only fill his head with so much due to the lack of access and insights they got to beam out to the world.

The massive globalisation push and superstar vehicle didn't really come about until the mid to late 60's (might well be with The Beatles), where Best got drowned in it and it essentially crushed him - if Pele were the same 17-yr old in the late 60's, the media spotlight would have been so much more intense and intrusive. By the late 60's he was already 25 through 30 so adjusted.

With the rise of social media and the Internet, I'll say that's one area that has become exponentially harder for child prodigies to traverse because the greater they are, the more they are beamed back at us and the more the masses feel they should (and want) access to all of them. Being a megastar by 18 is insane. Even if we think of the others: Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe etc. their journey's were mostly just getting underway at that juncture, and of course, hype was starting to build, but full-fledged and global? Not even close. Even Neymar, it was "only" South America at that time, but he's the closest to Yamal in the sense of bearing a crushing pressure at such an age. He and Rooney are more localised, and if we're honest, they both show the most signs of being affected by their stardom out of the above.

The world is a very weird place for Yamal and I don't think we ever believe that's a good thing during formative development - will be really quite something if he comes out the other side of his teens intact and "normal". Honestly, if you think about child stars in sports, film or music (entertainment), the amount of them who aren't weird by society's standards pales in comparison to those who have issues of some kind. He seems to be well aware of the trappings in that interview and somewhat rueful, but accepting, you just hope that's not a pressure cooker setting where the need to let off steam becomes more apparent over time.
 
Fortitude said:
From what I know of Pele's time, he was seriously protected and in awe of his elders for both Brazil and Santos. I'd hazard a guess that being a global star then would be quite a bit different too, as even if everyone knew of him, they barely had a direct line to him outside of the NT or the Santos tours, and likewise, the media could only fill his head with so much due to the lack of access and insights they got to beam out to the world.

The massive globalisation push and superstar vehicle didn't really come about until the mid to late 60's (might well be with The Beatles), where Best got drowned in it and it essentially crushed him - if Pele were the same 17-yr old in the late 60's, the media spotlight would have been so much more intense and intrusive. By the late 60's he was already 25 through 30 so adjusted.

With the rise of social media and the Internet, I'll say that's one area that has become exponentially harder for child prodigies to traverse because the greater they are, the more they are beamed back at us and the more the masses feel they should (and want) access to all of them. Being a megastar by 18 is insane. Even if we think of the others: Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe etc. their journey's were mostly just getting underway at that juncture, and of course, hype was starting to build, but full-fledged and global? Not even close. Even Neymar, it was "only" South America at that time, but he's the closest to Yamal in the sense of bearing a crushing pressure at such an age. He and Rooney are more localised, and if we're honest, they both show the most signs of being affected by their stardom out of the above.

The world is a very weird place for Yamal and I don't think we ever believe that's a good thing during formative development - will be really quite something if he comes out the other side of his teens intact and "normal". Honestly, if you think about child stars in sports, film or music (entertainment), the amount of them who aren't weird by society's standards pales in comparison to those who have issues of some kind. He seems to be well aware of the trappings in that interview and somewhat rueful, but accepting, you just hope that's not a pressure cooker setting where the need to let off steam becomes more apparent over time.
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I think Mbappe was pretty close. He was a star at Monaco at 17 and a World Cup winner and star at 19. Whatever people might think of him and his actions since then, he's still going at the highest level. Yamal will be OK. There will be highs and lows for sure, but I think he will have a great career.
 
Kwabs said:
I think Mbappe was pretty close. He was a star at Monaco at 17 and a World Cup winner and star at 19. Whatever people might think of him and his actions since then, he's still going at the highest level. Yamal will be OK. There will be highs and lows for sure, but I think he will have a great career.
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Why? You say this with such confidence. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if his career fizzled out rather quickly. Not that I expect it to happen. But the pressure he’s under, combined with a somewhat dubious entourage, could easily sink his career.
 
HTG said:
Why? You say this with such confidence. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if his career fizzled out rather quickly. Not that I expect it to happen. But the pressure he’s under, combined with a somewhat dubious entourage, could easily sink his career.
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This is the bit that concerns me about Yamal the most. What you say about Child prodogies is true. However, the ones that end up most grounded seem to be the ones with people around them that want the best for them rather than to tag along and enjoy the ride - or worse.

Personally, I wish the kid all the best as his life must be pretty crazy for an 18 year old to deal with, along with his clear talent being such that it would be a shame to waste.
 
Reminder that we know exactly what he earns from Barcelona because his father left the offices brandishing the signed contract like a trophy and showing it to all the media waiting outside
 
HTG said:
Why? You say this with such confidence. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if his career fizzled out rather quickly. Not that I expect it to happen. But the pressure he’s under, combined with a somewhat dubious entourage, could easily sink his career.
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Just a feeling I have. I don't think anything will stop him other than injury.
 
Kwabs said:
Indeed, it's much more foreign to Spain than Morocco is.

Re Yamal and fame, the cliche is that you stop developing when you become famous. But Pele got through it from a tiny age, and I'm confident Yamal will as well (though I don't think he's Pele).
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Rooney managed, the fame he received from 16 - 22 was massive.
 
SonOfFergie said:
Agreed he is much more naturally talented than Rashford but I think he will not even reach Neymar level career type. In his head he has already outgrown Barcelona. Where does he go from there?
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Clearly: Manchester United

Hahaha

Hahaaa

Ha...

(Sob)
 
HTG said:
Why? You say this with such confidence. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if his career fizzled out rather quickly. Not that I expect it to happen. But the pressure he’s under, combined with a somewhat dubious entourage, could easily sink his career.
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Yamal seems to have enough talent to get past all of the worst of it, and be in a league that the temptations and pressures don't get as much scrutiny as they might elsewhere.

But I don't know much about his situation (or even what these controversies are!) so I could definitely be wrong
 
Dave Smith said:
This is the bit that concerns me about Yamal the most. What you say about Child prodogies is true. However, the ones that end up most grounded seem to be the ones with people around them that want the best for them rather than to tag along and enjoy the ride - or worse.

Personally, I wish the kid all the best as his life must be pretty crazy for an 18 year old to deal with, along with his clear talent being such that it would be a shame to waste.
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Yeah as I was reading fortitudes post the one thing that sprung to mind was the family and “entourage” - who he surrounds himself with will have a huge say in the outcome. I don’t like judging people as I don’t know them or their story but there’s already been one or two things about his dad I didn’t quite think was “good” I’m a sense.

Alas, hoping he fulfills his potential and on the way, remains humble and grounded - or at the very least, a decent enough human. Outrageously gifted.
 
Social media changes the whole scenario, for the good because the praise gets out of hand, and for the bad, because the scrutinity it's also out of hand.
 
Fobal said:
Social media changes the whole scenario, for the good because the praise gets out of hand, and for the bad, because the scrutinity it's also out of hand.
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If I'm an agent I'd demand players come off social media altogether and advise their family and friends to never mention anything they read online, good or bad. If they want an online presence, hire an outside firm. There's too many drawbacks to social media, the negatives far outweigh the positives for these young players.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
That was his way of managing.
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Erm… taking on debilitating substances that wreck players (Best, Garrincha, Gascoigne to name a few) is the opposite of managing. Like with all of them, they got away with it for a fraction of their career before the damage was clear.

Having to take the edge off your daily stresses via booze is obviously detrimental to a professional athlete both mentally and physically, and we’d have been mortified at the time to know the seemingly impervious Wayne Rooney was coping with pressure by numbing himself with the drink.
 
SuperiorXI said:
If I'm an agent I'd demand players come off social media altogether and advise their family and friends to never mention anything they read online, good or bad. If they want an online presence, hire an outside firm. There's too many drawbacks to social media, the negatives far outweigh the positives for these young players.
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You're still a millennial though. It's fairly different for Gen Z and those that follow them — millennials are the last generation that caught the development of social media as it happened and adjusted to it. Younger people live in the world where online presence is very much the continuation of their own identity, a body without organs if you like.

It's not impossible for younger players not to have their own social media, of course, but it's not as simple as saying to them to "just not do it".
 
SuperiorXI said:
If I'm an agent I'd demand players come off social media altogether and advise their family and friends to never mention anything they read online, good or bad. If they want an online presence, hire an outside firm. There's too many drawbacks to social media, the negatives far outweigh the positives for these young players.
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Then they would instantly fire you since their social media presence earns them (and the agent) tons of money.
 
harms said:
You're still a millennial though. It's fairly different for Gen Z and those that follow them — millennials are the last generation that caught the development of social media as it happened and adjusted to it. Younger people live in the world where online presence is very much the continuation of their own identity, a body without organs if you like.

It's not impossible for younger players not to have their own social media, of course, but it's not as simple as saying to them to "just not do it".
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I understand it's different for them, but I don't accept that it's a body without organs situation. You can maintain communication with family and friends via texting apps. Why do you need to be on Twitter/TikTok etc to live a meaningful life? You absolutely don't. We need to be weaning people off this rubbish, it's a scourge.

Acrobat7 said:
Then they would instantly fire you since their social media presence earns them (and the agent) tons of money.
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Read the whole post. It's very easy to hire a firm to manage your online presence. You don't have to be doing it.
 
SuperiorXI said:
I understand it's different for them, but I don't accept that it's a body without organs situation. You can maintain communication with family and friends via texting apps. Why do you need to be on Twitter/TikTok etc to live a meaningful life? You absolutely don't. We need to be weaning people off this rubbish, it's a scourge.


Read the whole post. It's very easy to hire a firm to manage your online presence. You don't have to be doing it.
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You’re not looking at it from their perspective; removing social media from them is like cutting off a limb. They know no different and it is intrinsic to their life experience. To be of that age and not fully engaged would really be quite devastating and isolationist for the vast majority.
 
Fortitude said:
You’re not looking at it from their perspective; removing social media from them is like cutting off a limb. They know no different and it is intrinsic to their life experience. To be of that age and not fully engaged would really be quite devastating and isolationist for the vast majority.
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But would it really? I really don't think it's that extreme. Billions of us got by without it before. Many of us handle just fine without it now. It's not a limb, it's not oxygen, it's more akin to smoking/drugs/drinking.
 
Not his best game vs Atletico Madrid. Had his moments but for the most part kept quiet and then missed an easy goalscoring opportunity.
 
SuperiorXI said:
But would it really? I really don't think it's that extreme. Billions of us got by without it before. Many of us handle just fine without it now. It's not a limb, it's not oxygen, it's more akin to smoking/drugs/drinking.
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Because we're not gen Z

How would YOU fare if you had to live without electricity, for example?
 
giorno said:
Because we're not gen Z

How would YOU fare if you had to live without electricity, for example?
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I think theres a difference between seeing some knockers on your insta feed vs using electricity to power your entire home.
 
WhatIsLove said:
I think theres a difference between seeing some knockers on your insta feed vs using electricity to power your entire home.
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That's because you grew up taking one for granted while the other was always something extra, separate from "real life"

For Gen Z, social media is that "real life"
 
SuperiorXI said:
But would it really? I really don't think it's that extreme. Billions of us got by without it before. Many of us handle just fine without it now. It's not a limb, it's not oxygen, it's more akin to smoking/drugs/drinking.
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“We were doing fine without it” isn’t really the best way to try and look at something from their perspective though.

No one’s saying that it’s a good thing by the way. But it’s very much the reality — while for most of us on here (demographically) it’s an additional thing that we can choose to use or not to use, for those who grew up with it, their online presence is the continuation of their own life, not something separate.

Try to cut yourself off from a phone/internet/electricity/modern transportation… (billions lived just fine without them) and social media are even more ingrained in their lives as it’s an identity-forming thing, I doubt that we identify with our phone/car etc. in a way that we identify with, say, our instagram profile.
 
WhatIsLove said:
I think theres a difference between seeing some knockers on your insta feed vs using electricity to power your entire home.
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Absolutely.

giorno said:
That's because you grew up taking one for granted while the other was always something extra, separate from "real life"

For Gen Z, social media is that "real life"
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Electricity is a bit more than something "extra", it has benefitted humanity in countless ways whereas social media has caused many problems. We can go without electricity and our quality of life is greatly reduced. It could be argued going without social media (or drastically reducing its usage) improves your quality of life. Your argument is apples and oranges to an extreme degree.
 
Hammondo said:
Yes but he retired early, a big part of that was how poorly he treated his body with his drinking and over eating.
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I mean the stress on your body that comes with being a professional athlete for 19 years probably contributed to it too.
 
stepic said:
I mean the stress on your body that comes with being a professional athlete for 19 years probably contributed to it too.
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Yes it did, but being overweight and drinking alcohol does as well.
 
SuperiorXI said:
Electricity is a bit more than something "extra", it has benefitted humanity in countless ways whereas social media has caused many problems. We can go without electricity and our quality of life is greatly reduced. It could be argued going without social media (or drastically reducing its usage) improves your quality of life. Your argument is apples and oranges to an extreme degree.
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No it isn't and the fact you're zeroing in on electricty to make the distinction is telling. I used electricity as an example. You can substitute that for cars, or public transportation, or mobile phone. It's the same thing

Impact on quality of life is irrelevant - the younger generations grow up with social media being an integral part of their lives, same as mine with mobile phones for example, or older generations with cars. They have never experienced life without it
 
SuperiorXI said:
If I'm an agent I'd demand players come off social media altogether and advise their family and friends to never mention anything they read online, good or bad. If they want an online presence, hire an outside firm. There's too many drawbacks to social media, the negatives far outweigh the positives for these young players.
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An agent would literally never advise this, because they are most interested in monetising the brand of the player. It's solid advice, but it would never come from an agent.
 
giorno said:
No it isn't and the fact you're zeroing in on electricty to make the distinction is telling. I used electricity as an example. You can substitute that for cars, or public transportation, or mobile phone. It's the same thing

Impact on quality of life is irrelevant - the younger generations grow up with social media being an integral part of their lives, same as mine with mobile phones for example, or older generations with cars. They have never experienced life without it
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It's really not the same thing. The things you are listing, you can create many arguments about why they're good for humanity. It's a lot more difficult to do that for social media, especially terminally online social media usage. If social media vanished today, it'd be far easier to handle than if electricity, cars, phones or public transport vanished.

You keep mentioning they don't know life without it, that isn't good enough. It doesn't mean we should just accept it and move on. Like always, technology moved faster than laws and understanding of its impacts. We will see in years to come the long term impacts this has on humans and it won't be pretty. Smoking is a great comparison for this, it used to be cool and some companies argued there were health benefits, many many people smoked and many people grew up and "knew no different", is that a reason to not make changes? Absolutely not.
 
Kwabs said:
An agent would literally never advise this, because they are most interested in monetising the brand of the player. It's solid advice, but it would never come from an agent.
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You're right. Maybe some who truly had the interests of their clients at heart would consider some measures.
 
Kwabs said:
An agent would literally never advise this, because they are most interested in monetising the brand of the player. It's solid advice, but it would never come from an agent.
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There are agents who advise like that and genuinely care about their clients wellbeing. They just happen to be a minority. And the players and their entourages themselves usually seek out the greedy ones.
 
HTG said:
There are agents who advise like that and genuinely care about their clients wellbeing. They just happen to be a minority. And the players and their entourages themselves usually seek out the greedy ones.
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A tiny minority, I'd guess. And definitely not the best known and wildly successful ones.
 
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