Lamine Yamal

DennisReynolds said:
The ballon d'Or criteria changes year after year so who knows, but I agree with you. A few games in the summer shouldn't dictate an entire season, otherwise you end up with a farce like Cannavaro winning the award.
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Fabio Cannavaro winning it was far from a farce, and far from dictated by ‘a few games in the summer’. Cannavaro was brilliant and key player in a Juventus that won the scudetto twice in two years, Captain of Italy after Maldini and the one player Fabio Capello took to Real Madrid when he moved there in 2006, where Cannavaro became a hero as well. Cannavaro was Serie A defender of the year in 2005, and no flassh in the pan.

Ironically, he was only awarded Second Best player of the 2006 WC, while he received the Serie A Player of the Year, the FIFA World’s Best Player of the Year and Ballon d’Or.
 
TwoSheds said:
Kane has 49 goals and 5 assists in 41 games so far apparently. I know it's a kick and rush league but he's still the main contender for the Balloon d'Or with those numbers.
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Which is mightily impressive. It is worth noting that he's been the beneficiary of taking 17 penalties this season for Bayern and scoring 15 of them. Yamal has scored 9 by comparison.
 
Fortitude said:
Isn't this the Messi argument all over again, that he's the best player regardless?
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Messi won 3 BdO not attached to a major trophy though. 2010 which pretty much everybody agrees was bullshit(and he wouldn't have won had they not merged the BdO with the FIFA award), 2012 when broke the record for goals in a calendar year with like 92 or something silly like that, and 2019 which was a robbery but his main rival for it was Van Dijk, and he had a genuinely insane season individually

Lamine Yamal is not having an otherwordly season and won't get to benefit from a stupid voting system. WC year as well means competition won't be a CB

I do think he's either the best or second best player in the world, but he needs to prove it by leading Barcelona to CL or Spain to the WC
 
DennisReynolds said:
The ballon d'Or criteria changes year after year so who knows, but I agree with you. A few games in the summer shouldn't dictate an entire season, otherwise you end up with a farce like Cannavaro winning the award.
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It doesn't change every year. The Ballon d'Or is about the most remarkable performer in any given year and summer tournaments have a premium, it has always been like that outside of a short period of time between 2010 and 2016 which was due to a partnership between FIFA and France Football with the former altering the criteria to make it like the FIFA awards.

To paraphrase FF editors, the point of the Ballon d'Or is to celebrate a remarkable season, it's not to determine who is the best player in the world.
 
giorno said:
Messi won 3 BdO not attached to a major trophy though. 2010 which pretty much everybody agrees was bullshit(and he wouldn't have won had they not merged the BdO with the FIFA award), 2012 when broke the record for goals in a calendar year with like 92 or something silly like that, and 2019 which was a robbery but his main rival for it was Van Dijk, and he had a genuinely insane season individually

Lamine Yamal is not having an otherwordly season and won't get to benefit from a stupid voting system. WC year as well means competition won't be a CB

I do think he's either the best or second best player in the world, but he needs to prove it by leading Barcelona to CL or Spain to the WC
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Yeah, I followed up with another post.
 
Winrar said:
Nothing against his technical ability but his PR is next level insane. Don't know how on earth he made it to the CL TOTW ahead of Olise after his team lost 2-0 at home.
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What
Gringo said:
Only saw highlights but he seemed pretty electric in the CL. OK he didn't contribute to a goal but it wasn't through lack of trying. His dribbling was insane
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Olise broke Real Madrid. At the Bernabeu. He was the best CL performer of the week, together with Neuer
Judas said:
Yeah I always assume people who slag off Cannavaro winning it just weren't actually watching him then? He deserved it.
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Nah, should have been either Pirlo or Buffon honestly
 
I love cannavaro but Ronaldinho should have won the awards imo. Maybe Gerrard and lampard should have been runner ups.
 
Yamal is a genius. I feel like he is already in his peak years general play wise although productivity can improve. Looks like a similar upward trajectory to Mbappe/Rooney but ofcourse at a genius level.
Mbappe and Rooney were physical specimens at 18.
 
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Raul Madrid said:
I love cannavaro but Ronaldinho should have won the awards imo. Maybe Gerrard and lampard should have been runner ups.
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Ronaldinho had little chance to win with his WC. Based on FF criteria it was Henry or one of the best italian player. Cannavaro was questionable because he wasn't the best italian player.
 
JPRouve said:
Ronaldinho had little chance to win with his WC. Based on FF criteria it was Henry or one of the best italian player. Cannavaro was questionable because he wasn't the best italian player.
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I forgot about Henry. Messi won it in 2010 though.
 
Raul Madrid said:
Perhaps 2010 was when they combined the two awards.
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Yes. It was a different award, it was like the FIFA world player of the year. Funnily enough Cannavaro also won it which makes no sense, that's the award that people should complain about.
 
Raul Madrid said:
I love cannavaro but Ronaldinho should have won the awards imo. Maybe Gerrard and lampard should have been runner ups.
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Not in 2006. His WC hurt him a lot.

Cannavaro was a worthy winner. That Italy team only conceded from a penalty and own goal all tournament.
 
Cannavaro was a brilliant player and well worth the award in 06. Didn't blink when his more celebrated partner Nesta got injured in that tournament and stepped up big time.
 
Grande said:
Fabio Cannavaro winning it was far from a farce, and far from dictated by ‘a few games in the summer’. Cannavaro was brilliant and key player in a Juventus that won the scudetto twice in two years, Captain of Italy after Maldini and the one player Fabio Capello took to Real Madrid when he moved there in 2006, where Cannavaro became a hero as well. Cannavaro was Serie A defender of the year in 2005, and no flassh in the pan.

Ironically, he was only awarded Second Best player of the 2006 WC, while he received the Serie A Player of the Year, the FIFA World’s Best Player of the Year and Ballon d’Or.
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Juve I'll give you. He was pretty average at Madrid and calling him a hero is absolutely not true.
JPRouve said:
It doesn't change every year. The Ballon d'Or is about the most remarkable performer in any given year and summer tournaments have a premium, it has always been like that outside of a short period of time between 2010 and 2016 which was due to a partnership between FIFA and France Football with the former altering the criteria to make it like the FIFA awards.

To paraphrase FF editors, the point of the Ballon d'Or is to celebrate a remarkable season, it's not to determine who is the best player in the world.
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So the ballon d'Or criteria doesn't change except for the 6 year period when it changed, and also when it recently changed from being a calendar year award to a seasonal one?
 
Jippy said:
That's a hell of a stat. I'm too lazy to compare it to the likes of Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney to see how it compares though.
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I asked AI if it's some kind of record for top division in big 5 league and they said it is.

Donnarumma, Gavi, Bellingham, Camavinga had played over 100 but not close to 200 like Yamal.
Bellingham played lots in Championship also.

It might be a world record for any League.
 
TwoSheds said:
Kane has 49 goals and 5 assists in 41 games so far apparently. I know it's a kick and rush league but he's still the main contender for the Balloon d'Or with those numbers.
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It'll all come down to the CL and the WC.
He's definitely in the running though.

If wins the CL whilst scoring a few important goals and gets to the semi or final of WC, then he has a chance.
 
DennisReynolds said:
So the ballon d'Or criteria doesn't change except for the 6 year period when it changed, and also when it recently changed from being a calendar year award to a seasonal one?
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It was a different award during which the criteria didn't change. You said that it changes every year which is false. As for your last point it illustrates the issue with your initial statement from 1956 to 2025, it used the calendar year since 2025 it uses Football seasons. That's not an annual change, they changed that criteria once in almost 70 years.
 
Jippy said:
That's a hell of a stat. I'm too lazy to compare it to the likes of Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney to see how it compares though.
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Messi only played 230 minutes by 18 and CR 7 is 900 ish..

Be surprising if Yamal doesn't at least start to
burn out at 25. He'll need to be a freak like Inaki Williams to not do so.
 
Mb194dc said:
Messi only played 230 minutes by 18 and CR 7 is 900 ish..

Be surprising if Yamal doesn't at least start to
burn out at 25. He'll need to be a freak like Inaki Williams to not do so.
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Yamal is turning 19 in the summer.
At that age Messi and Ronaldo both played full seasons.

But still they were way off 200 games before turning 19.
Bellingham is the closest to those numbers.

There's no reason to believe he'll burn out though.
 
next_number_seven said:
Yamal is turning 19 in the summer.
At that age Messi and Ronaldo both played full seasons.

But still they were way off 200 games before turning 19.
Bellingham is the closest to those numbers.

There's no reason to believe he'll burn out though.
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There is every reason to think he'll burn out. In fact, there is every reason to think that anyone would burn out with that level of intensity from such a young age, unless they live a monk-like lifestyle like Ronaldo or Messi.

The more likely question is: how early? At 26? 30? 32? It will depend on his choices and his luck.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Juve I'll give you. He was pretty average at Madrid and calling him a hero is absolutely not true.
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What is absolutely not true is that him receiving Ballon’d Or was a farce, like you wrote.

The RM comment was half a sentence and a detour in terms of the point of the post, which was that he had a really high standing in world football at the time of winning Ballon d’Or, and Fabio Capello bringing him with him from Juve for hugemoney for a defender, was very obviously not because he ‘played a handful of games’ well.

He got a standing ovation from the Bernabeu when he left RM in 2009, and Marca had him in the best 11 ever of non-Spanish players to play for RM, but I’m not going to debate how well he actually played there. The point was the basis he was awarded Balon’d Or for.
 
JPRouve said:
It was a different award during which the criteria didn't change. You said that it changes every year which is false. As for your last point it illustrates the issue with your initial statement from 1956 to 2025, it used the calendar year since 2025 it uses Football seasons. That's not an annual change, they changed that criteria once in almost 70 years.
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Fair enough, I accept your point.
Grande said:
What is absolutely not true is that him receiving Ballon’d Or was a farce, like you wrote.

The RM comment was half a sentence and a detour in terms of the point of the post, which was that he had a really high standing in world football at the time of winning Ballon d’Or, and Fabio Capello bringing him with him from Juve for hugemoney for a defender, was very obviously not because he ‘played a handful of games’ well.

He got a standing ovation from the Bernabeu when he left RM in 2009, and Marca had him in the best 11 ever of non-Spanish players to play for RM, but I’m not going to debate how well he actually played there. The point was the basis he was awarded Balon’d Or for.
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Well it was half a sentence but half a season in reality, of which he was nowhere near ballon d'Or level. He wasn't the best Italian player at the World Cup either so I have no idea what reason there was to give him it.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Fair enough, I accept your point.

Well it was half a sentence but half a season in reality, of which he was nowhere near ballon d'Or level. He wasn't the best Italian player at the World Cup either so I have no idea what reason there was to give him it.
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The reason was that he was the best player in Serie A that season, and the best player in the World Cup that season, and won both.
 
Oly Francis said:
There is every reason to think he'll burn out. In fact, there is every reason to think that anyone would burn out with that level of intensity from such a young age, unless they live a monk-like lifestyle like Ronaldo or Messi.

The more likely question is: how early? At 26? 30? 32? It will depend on his choices and his luck.
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He's not injury prone so far so no reason to believe he'll burn out.

Rooney had a terrible lifestyle and was heavy.

Owen had bad injuries.

So he has every chance to be like Messi or Giggs or Ronaldo or Milner or Modric, although they're complete outliers.
 
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giorno said:
Messi won 3 BdO not attached to a major trophy though. 2010 which pretty much everybody agrees was bullshit(and he wouldn't have won had they not merged the BdO with the FIFA award), 2012 when broke the record for goals in a calendar year with like 92 or something silly like that, and 2019 which was a robbery but his main rival for it was Van Dijk, and he had a genuinely insane season individually

Lamine Yamal is not having an otherwordly season and won't get to benefit from a stupid voting system. WC year as well means competition won't be a CB

I do think he's either the best or second best player in the world, but he needs to prove it by leading Barcelona to CL or Spain to the WC
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The only time Messi won it that falls closer to the silly robbery stuff (with everyone, there have been always valid reasons for every ballon d Or winner) was the last one, yet this one falls in R9 and others territory with the weight of the WC, also you have to have an excellent WC. The rest of them he deserved it and at times among others that deserved it too.
 
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giorno said:
Messi won 3 BdO not attached to a major trophy though. 2010 which pretty much everybody agrees was bullshit(and he wouldn't have won had they not merged the BdO with the FIFA award), 2012 when broke the record for goals in a calendar year with like 92 or something silly like that, and 2019 which was a robbery but his main rival for it was Van Dijk, and he had a genuinely insane season individually
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I don't think everyone agrees that 2010 was bullshit. He didn't have a good World Cup, but he gave multiple performances that year that were so far beyond anything else that anyone else did, that it was almost laughable.

That period of games that included the 4-goal match v Arsenal (which prompted Wenger to make his 'PlayStation player' comments) was right up there with the most astonishing prolonged displays by a footballer I've ever seen. I'd not seen anything like that since peak Maradona, 25 years earlier. It was like he was playing a different sport to everyone else.

I think the merging of the award did affect the voting, and a World Cup year usually skews everything towards the results there, but to say it was 'bullshit' is simply wrong.
giorno said:
Lamine Yamal is not having an otherwordly season and won't get to benefit from a stupid voting system. WC year as well means competition won't be a CB
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But then he also has the advantage of playing for a real contender at the World Cup, in fact, the betting favourites.
giorno said:
I do think he's either the best or second best player in the world, but he needs to prove it by leading Barcelona to CL or Spain to the WC
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This is not necessary to prove he is the best player in the world. It would help a lot in winning the Ballon D'Or, but then the Ballon D'Or is not always won by the world's best player.
 
Grande said:
The reason was that he was the best player in Serie A that season, and the best player in the World Cup that season, and won both.
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I don't think either statements are true, but I'll leave it there since we're in the Yamal thread.
 
It's a shame that balon dors go to whoever wins the ucl now.

I find it funny that last season the balon dor was won by a player that PSG would quite happily give to Barca with another 80 mill to boot for this kid. Barca would also laugh at this offer.
 
the_cliff said:
It's a shame that balon dors go to whoever wins the ucl now.

I find it funny that last season the balon dor was won by a player that PSG would quite happily give to Barca with another 80 mill to boot for this kid. Barca would also laugh at this offer.
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Think the World Cup winners will also have a big say in it
 
altodevil said:
Individual awards based on team accomplishment is totally logical
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Exactly. Team success should have minimal bearing otherwise just officially make it the best player on a trophy winning team instead of pretending it is to crown the best performer of the year.
 
altodevil said:
Individual awards based on team accomplishment is totally logical
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What's wrong with it? I mean we can all agree that even in a team, certain individuals stand out, no? Van Persie stood out for us and his contribution was bigger in 2013, same for Roy Keane certain seasons or Eric Cantona. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo clearly had a higher impact on their team than their teammates. Why else would people still celebrate certain players half a century from when they played if individual performances did not matter even in a team sport?
 
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