Lamine Yamal

Fortitude said:
Are people in here forgetting he came into the tournament injured and unfit? He doesn’t look 100%. Doesn’t even look 90%.
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I think this is very much the problem right now. At the Euros he wan unplayable at the age of 16, he doesn't look fully fit though in this world cup. Of course he also seems to be the main target for opposition to double up on and foul as soon as he gets the ball. Luckily for him he plays in a fantastic team that is not soley reliant on him carring them.
 
He has played a crazy amount of football for someone his age. Averaging 3 50-game seasons back to back (just club level) and all before the age of 19 is insane. Surely they have to manage him better. It's more than double what Messi had played at this stage as a reference.
 
He's obviously a very, very good player but at the same time he's been insanely overhyped. Even when other players on the team he's in are assisting and scoring in games, he's getting much more attention than they are. You can see it on the TV coverage yesterday.
 
Grande said:
Well, after all it’s how Guardiola solved the Spanish football conundrum: How to win football games with a nation of 175 cm futsal midfielders.
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Guardiola always had speedsters / runners in his Barca team, not sure if that's a good comparison. They midfield operated similarly of course, but it's clear that you close down Yamal then Spain looks rather toothless. I know they scored from patient buildup play, but that period of constant pressure came after Mendes sub what completely unlocked that right side (and I don't even think Yamal was that good).

He is good at running with the ball but you could swap Neto with him yesterday and have similar effect.
 
I feel there are few things working against him.

First being his growth spurt. He isn't as nimble as he used to be when he burst on to the scene.

Second being element of surprise. Everybody knows him and the best way to defend him by now.

Third being pressure. He might play it off but he knows there is pressure and can't play as freely as he once did.

With that being said it's not as if he suddenly became a bad player. More of a case of people expecting prime Messi and having to settle for a more normal good/great player output.
 
Mb194dc said:
He's obviously a very, very good player but at the same time he's been insanely overhyped. Even when other players on the team he's in are assisting and scoring in games, he's getting much more attention than they are. You can see it on the TV coverage yesterday.
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Yeah there's definitely an odd desire by the media to push his repuation. He was really average yesterday but you'd never guess that if all you did was listen to the pundits. You'd think he was man of the match.
 
Marwood said:
Yeah there's definitely an odd desire by the media to push his repuation. He was really average yesterday but you'd never guess that if all you did was listen to the pundits. You'd think he was man of the match.
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We are very much deep into the era of the cult of personality. Messi, Ronaldo, mbappe etc. individual players over teams feels the way it's going.
 
Mb194dc said:
He's obviously a very, very good player but at the same time he's been insanely overhyped. Even when other players on the team he's in are assisting and scoring in games, he's getting much more attention than they are. You can see it on the TV coverage yesterday.
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I think a lot of it has to do with him being the best player in a major international tournament and the face or Barcelona at 16 years old, that never happened before.
Having said that, I’m not sure if he’s improved as a player since then.
Although I don’t watch Barca regularly, so there’s that.
 
He was playing against the best left back in Europe. Mbappé was also ineffectual in the last World Cup against Walker and Hakimi for example. Difficult for any pacey winger when you come up against someone who can beat you physically in one on ones.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
He was playing against the best left back in Europe. Mbappé was also ineffectual in the last World Cup against Walker and Hakimi for example. Difficult for any pacey winger when you come up against someone who can beat you physically in one on ones.
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You’re not allowed to mention that Nuno Mendes is a clear future all-timer in his own right.
 
He also was against double teaming, João Felix tracked back well to cut off the space for him to run into. Average game but still seen as Spain's biggest threat by Portugal.
 
He did eventually get past Nuno Mendes to be fair, it was trying to recover from that take on when he got his injury.
 
The media/pundits glazing over him is a bit much this tournament, thought he was OK vs Austria for example, poor last night.

Not 100% fit and lack of match sharpness is the main issue currently imo, not sure we will see the best of him this World Cup unfortunately. Nico being injured also allows teams to completely shut down his side.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
He was playing against the best left back in Europe. Mbappé was also ineffectual in the last World Cup against Walker and Hakimi for example. Difficult for any pacey winger when you come up against someone who can beat you physically in one on ones.
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He passed Walker with ease, it was only Dembele who could finish the chance from from 5m. Mbappe did not struggle against Morroco did you even watch these games?
 
Average so far yes, because he is still recovering but good Lord do Spain depend on him for a semblance of nice attacking football. They'll score the odd decent enough goal from time to time, but they have nothing without him if they are playing in a counter or anything else other than a lost ball in the final third.
 
Harry190 said:
Average so far yes, because he is still recovering but good Lord do Spain depend on him for a semblance of nice attacking football. They'll score the odd decent enough goal from time to time, but they have nothing without him if they are playing in a counter or anything else other than a lost ball in the final third.
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Yeah, it's was so obvious watching it yesterday.
It's very similar to Doku at City.

Pass, pass, pass... at best do a tiny shimmy to evade a challenge.
Pass to Doku.
Doku is double or triple-marked, but actually tries to take someone on.
Doku either gets tackled or hits a low cross in.

Rinse and repeat.

In the FA Cup final vs United, when City were chasing a goal, it was ridiculous how much responsibility was on him for any kind of invention.
 
Mendes generally got the better of him in their direct duels, but then Yamal is still able to produce some quality through balls, when the midfielders made underlapping runs. Probably also the toughest left back he could face. He'll find it easier vs. Belgium.
 
"By the age of 18 years and 6 months, Lamine Yamal accumulated over 11,000 career minutes for FC Barcelona and the Spain national team. In contrast, Kylian Mbappé had barely broken past 3,500 senior minutes at the same point in his development."

Yikes.
 
Only said:
"By the age of 18 years and 6 months, Lamine Yamal accumulated over 11,000 career minutes for FC Barcelona and the Spain national team. In contrast, Kylian Mbappé had barely broken past 3,500 senior minutes at the same point in his development."

Yikes.
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It’s very bad. And the over reliance on him is forcing him to play earlier upon injury return than he should be.

He’s getting Saka’d.
 
Wonderful talent, but I feel like he has been playing a lot of football for his age. Or, he could overcome it and become next Messi/Ronaldo. The weight of his balls, accuracy, speed, dribbling, vision, decision making, everything is just so good.
 
MassVolto said:
He passed Walker with ease, it was only Dembele who could finish the chance from from 5m. Mbappe did not struggle against Morroco did you even watch these games?
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They were his two worst games of the tournament. Just for comparison on Sofascore he got 6.8 against Morocco and 7.1 against England. In the final he got 8.8 against Argentina and in the last 16 he got 9.3 against Poland. He has only ever had one worse rating than the game against Morocco in 3 World Cups.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s very bad. And the over reliance on him is forcing him to play earlier upon injury return than he should be.

He’s getting Saka’d.
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Quite a bit worse than Saka, who had a little less than 3000 minutes of first team football under his belt when he turned 19. Saka was overplayed but Lamine at 11000 minutes already is insane.

I'm actually struggling to think of any player who played as much first team football ages 16-19 as Lamine or even close. Rooney had played about 5000 minutes when he turned 19.
 
Powderfinger said:
Quite a bit worse than Saka, who had a little less than 3000 minutes of first team football under his belt when he turned 19. Saka was overplayed but Lamine at 11000 minutes already is insane.

I'm actually struggling to think of any player who played as much first team football ages 16-19 as Lamine or even close. Rooney had played about 5000 minutes when he turned 19.
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Tielemans seems to have been in the 8 or 9 range? He was definitely a full-time starter at 16. Didn't play for the national team yet, though, so still about as close to Rooney as he was to Lamine.
 
Only said:
"By the age of 18 years and 6 months, Lamine Yamal accumulated over 11,000 career minutes for FC Barcelona and the Spain national team. In contrast, Kylian Mbappé had barely broken past 3,500 senior minutes at the same point in his development."

Yikes.
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That is ridiculous.
 
NoPace said:
Tielemans seems to have been in the 8 or 9 range? He was definitely a full-time starter at 16. Didn't play for the national team yet, though, so still about as close to Rooney as he was to Lamine.
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Good shout. Tielemans might be the closest.
 
Powderfinger said:
Quite a bit worse than Saka, who had a little less than 3000 minutes of first team football under his belt when he turned 19. Saka was overplayed but Lamine at 11000 minutes already is insane.

I'm actually struggling to think of any player who played as much first team football ages 16-19 as Lamine or even close. Rooney had played about 5000 minutes when he turned 19.
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I did mean playing whilst injured. Although the minutes point you make is valid and has been a talking point for years, well, at least 18 months.
 
dinostar77 said:
Too much, too soon, too much ego.

In Mendes pocket last night
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He wasn't good and he hasn't been good all tournament, but this is just wrong. First of all, he is still not back to 100% sharpness after the injury. Secondly, his team won the game, which is the most important thing, and they could easily still go on to win the World Cup. Would that also be 'too much, too soon?'

Thirdly, Mendes had a lot of help from Felix, and he actually got injured trying to catch Yamal. Lamine needs to play better, but it's nothing to do with ego, IMO.
 
Frankly, the thing about him playing too much football for his age is a very silly argument. What else is he going to do? What's the difference between playing 11 000 minutes in front of 50 000 spectators as opposed to 12 000 minutes in the reserves. Intensity is always relative to the level of talent. He's a teenager, he is full of hormones that actually enhance his recovery. Now is the time to play, now is the time to enjoy himself.

Not everyone is bound to be injured at 19-20 and rushed in by the team like Owen for Liverpool. Messi and Ronaldo have been playing consistently since their teens and it's already been 20 years.
 
Seems like he's just been rushed back for the tournament and we're probably not really going to see the best version of him.

Feels a bit like Rooney at the 2006 World Cup.
 
Mendes is also the best left back in the world. Yamal isn’t fully fit and also won’t come up against anyone better.
 
Yeah, Mendes is a quality player and Yamal doesn't seem 100% fit.

I worry about him playing so many minutes at this age.
 
He has enough credit in the bank to have a tournament off, in my opinion. He won them the Euros at 16

Plus he still has enough time left to show up in the remaining games…
 
Only said:
"By the age of 18 years and 6 months, Lamine Yamal accumulated over 11,000 career minutes for FC Barcelona and the Spain national team. In contrast, Kylian Mbappé had barely broken past 3,500 senior minutes at the same point in his development."

Yikes.
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I looked up how many minutes other teenage prodigies like Hazard, Rooney, Fabregas and Torres had played before turning 20.

Fabregas: 11,600 - 12,100 total minutes (10,750 mins for club + 1,100 mins for Spain)

Rooney: 10,200 - 10,500 total minutes (8,850 mins club + 1,500 mins for England )

Torres: 7,400 - 7,600 total minutes (6,900 club + 600 mins for Spain)

Hazard: 6,300 - 6,500 total minutes (5,700 club + 700 mins for Belgium)

Yamal: 8810 - 8810 total mins so far (7629 mins for club + 1181 mins for Spain), he turns 20 in July 2027)

Yamal will likely clock over 4000 mins next season for club and country pushing him over 13,000 mins before age 20.
 
That Mbappe stat feels fishy by the way. He broke through very early at Monaco and was playing regular games already at 17 years old, wasn't he? Would have thought his minutes would be similar to Yamal.
 
WeePat said:
I looked up how many minutes other teenage prodigies like Hazard, Rooney, Fabregas and Torres had played before turning 20.

Fabregas: 11,600 - 12,100 total minutes (10,750 mins for club + 1,100 mins for Spain)

Rooney: 10,200 - 10,500 total minutes (8,850 mins club + 1,500 mins for England )

Torres: 7,400 - 7,600 total minutes (6,900 club + 600 mins for Spain)

Hazard: 6,300 - 6,500 total minutes (5,700 club + 700 mins for Belgium)

Yamal: 8810 - 8810 total mins so far (7629 mins for club + 1181 mins for Spain), he turns 20 in July 2027)

Yamal will likely clock over 4000 mins next season for club and country pushing him over 13,000 mins before age 20.
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It’s only a little more than Fabregas and fitness and sports science has improved since.
 
NoLogo said:
I think this is very much the problem right now. At the Euros he wan unplayable at the age of 16, he doesn't look fully fit though in this world cup. Of course he also seems to be the main target for opposition to double up on and foul as soon as he gets the ball. Luckily for him he plays in a fantastic team that is not soley reliant on him carring them.
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Unplayable is an exaggeration. He was impressive for a 16 year old but nowhere near the levels he reached with Barcelona thereafter.
DWelbz19 said:
He has enough credit in the bank to have a tournament off, in my opinion. He won them the Euros at 16

Plus he still has enough time left to show up in the remaining games…
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No he didn't. It was a team effort which is why he was not the player of the tournament.
 
VorZakone said:
That Mbappe stat feels fishy by the way. He broke through very early at Monaco and was playing regular games already at 17 years old, wasn't he? Would have thought his minutes would be similar to Yamal.
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Mbappe broke through at 16, seems like he logged around 450 mins that debut season and then around 2700 mins the following season but I don't think he was an established starter the first half of that second season. He started sometimes but came off the bench quite a lot too. He exploded into superstardom the second half of that season.
 
DWelbz19 said:
He has enough credit in the bank to have a tournament off, in my opinion. He won them the Euros at 16

Plus he still has enough time left to show up in the remaining games…
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Wasn’t Rodri the tournaments best player?
 
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