Lamine Yamal

It is between Kane and Olise for the Balon d"Or. They have a club trophy to back it and they went out in the Semi-Finals to the eventual winners of the Champions League, who also happened to be the holders so there is no shame in that.
 
Trigestis said:
Same Ronaldo that won Ballon d'Or at 23 in an era with a ton of ridiculous football players? Yeah, don't think so.
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Yamal’s just turned 19. Very real chance he gets his hands on one of those at a younger age than Ronnie did.
 
Joel Miller said:
Yamal’s just turned 19. Very real chance he gets his hands on one of those at a younger age than Ronnie did.
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Probably won't, but let's say he does, look at the Ballon d'Or top 20 list of players that Ronaldo beat, and compare it to last year's. The difference in quality is staggering.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
That’s fine. I was talking about who I’d give it to. “Collective performances and team achievements” have much less to do the individual than their own performance levels.

Kvara didn’t do that much bar a few headline CL displays did he?
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I wouldn't give it to Kvara either but he was the best player in the highest level competition.
Yamal has the best mix of performances+trophies won.
Then Kane,Rodri and Dembele/Kvara I guess.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
I wouldn't give it to Kvara either but he was the best player in the highest level competition.
Yamal has the best mix of performances+trophies won.
Then Kane,Rodri and Dembele/Kvara I guess.
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Too mediocre in the most important competition by a mile, for me. But he likely will win it.
 
Thinking about this World Cup performance, I think we are all agreed that offensively Yamal was not at the expected level. However, I do think he played his part, for 2 different reasons. Number one, as a very young player, he kept his head at all times when pressured by fouls or provocation. That's important, because he did get fouled a lot.

Number 2, this team won because of defence, not attack, and their defence was the whole.team, not just the defenders. Yamal did his duty somewhat in terms of pressing and tracking back.

@Zehner and I have been discussing Mbappe's low defensive work rate, and whether that comtributed to the demise of his teams. I disagreed, but @Zehner, would you argue that Yamal's willingness to work to some degree without the ball and maintain positional discipline (I.e. play for the team as opposed to playing for himself - in contrast to his rep as an egotistical player) is one of the reasons why he is holding the WC trophy and Mbappe is not? Despite Mbappe having, at first glance, a far superior World Cup? Would be interested to know your thoughts.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
Thinking about this World Cup performance, I think we are all agreed that offensively Yamal was not at the expected level. However, I do think he played his part, for 2 different reasons. Number one, as a very young player, he kept his head at all times when pressured by fouls or provocation. That's important, because he did get fouled a lot.

Number 2, this team won because of defence, not attack, and their defence was the whole.team, not just the defenders. Yamal did his duty somewhat in terms of pressing and tracking back.

@Zehner and I have been discussing Mbappe's low defensive work rate, and whether that comtributed to the demise of his teams. I disagreed, but @Zehner, would you argue that Yamal's willingness to work to some degree without the ball and maintain positional discipline (I.e. play for the team as opposed to playing for himself - in contrast to his rep as an egotistical player) is one of the reasons why he is holding the WC trophy and Mbappe is not? Despite Mbappe having, at first glance, a far superior World Cup? Would be interested to know your thoughts.
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He played his part but putting in a shift doesn’t put you amongst the elite otherwise we can have a lot of mediocre wingers up there. It’s simply too low a bar for the top players. Mbappe not working hard enough? Sure, but I think there are other reasons for Spain beating a France which is the huge contrast in the ability to control matches. France were simply too reliant on counters and individual qualify in attack (which they had unlike Spain), and lacked the same class in the buildup and engine room as Spain showed. Would Mbappe tracking back help? Sure, but an even bigger problem was that their midfield had no control and hence Mbappe didn’t really get the ball in good areas.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
He played his part but putting in a shift doesn’t put you amongst the elite otherwise we can have a lot of mediocre wingers up there. It’s simply too low a bar for the top players. Mbappe not working hard enough? Sure, but I think there are other reasons for Spain beating a France which is the huge contrast in the ability to control matches. France were simply too reliant on counters and individual qualify in attack (which they had unlike Spain), and lacked the same class in the buildup and engine room as Spain showed. Would Mbappe tracking back help? Sure, but an even bigger problem was that their midfield had no control and hence Mbappe didn’t really get the ball in good areas.
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This is what I argued was the main reason for the France loss when I was debating with Zehner about it before, so I get what you are saying.

Nor am I saying that putting a shift in puts you in the elite category, of course not.

The issue is that winning a tournament of this size, with this many teams, with these conditions in a country that big (in multiple countries that big) is very, very difficult.

It can only be won by a proper team, not a collection of great individuals. And I give Yamal credit for doing what the manager wants, even if he wasn't able to bring the spectacular side of his game to the table. Maybe that's a low bar, but i don't think it's insignificant.
 
On the Ballon D Or I would really love that Kvaradona had a chance, doesn't look like it. Yet it's a great opportunity to do it.
 
Pickle85 said:
Um...nah. 'Easily clears' is a total nonsense. People forget just how talented Ronaldo was.
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Ronaldo was very talented, but I don't see any argument he was more talented than Yamal.

Ronaldo is the best example of someone who extracts every possible millimeter of his talent. A credit to his hard work, but I don't think he's one of the most naturally gifted footballers of all time.
 
This year there's no clear cut winner for BDor so it will be interesting to see. Yamal's trophy count+ insane PR might win him in the end, but personally I am not convinced. He kinda tapered off in the end. Spain didn't beat France because of Yamal outplaying MBappe, that's for sure.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Ronaldo was very talented, but I don't see any argument he was more talented than Yamal.

Ronaldo is the best example of someone who extracts every possible millimeter of his talent. A credit to his hard work, but I don't think he's one of the most naturally gifted footballers of all time.
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It's more the 'easily clears' I'd take issue with.
 
Jogger Bonitoe said:
Thinking about this World Cup performance, I think we are all agreed that offensively Yamal was not at the expected level. However, I do think he played his part, for 2 different reasons. Number one, as a very young player, he kept his head at all times when pressured by fouls or provocation. That's important, because he did get fouled a lot.

Number 2, this team won because of defence, not attack, and their defence was the whole.team, not just the defenders. Yamal did his duty somewhat in terms of pressing and tracking back.

@Zehner and I have been discussing Mbappe's low defensive work rate, and whether that comtributed to the demise of his teams. I disagreed, but @Zehner, would you argue that Yamal's willingness to work to some degree without the ball and maintain positional discipline (I.e. play for the team as opposed to playing for himself - in contrast to his rep as an egotistical player) is one of the reasons why he is holding the WC trophy and Mbappe is not? Despite Mbappe having, at first glance, a far superior World Cup? Would be interested to know your thoughts.
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Christian Streich, a German coach who lead Freiburg from relegation fodder into the UCL with a tiny budget, had nothing but praise for Yamal's defensive work rate. I definitely think it makes playing Spain's dominant brand of football much easier if every player works against the ball. Additionally, I believe Yamal helps his team a lot more than Mbappe at retaining possession under pressure and progressing the ball. In my opinion that is an extremely underrated quality in attacking players. Quite obviously, Spain has better midfielders than France but it makes their life so much easier if the team can rely on somebody like Yamal to be another outlet besides the CMs who can receive the ball and find a solution few players in the world would.

I didn't see every Spain match but in the ones I saw, I thought he was excellent even if he didn't score or assist. That was maybe a bit overlooked because the other superstars scored like crazy this tournament.
 
Trigestis said:
Same Ronaldo that won Ballon d'Or at 23 in an era with a ton of ridiculous football players? Yeah, don't think so.
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I'm taliking talent alone. Cristiano isn't as talented as Yamal, that is no slight because Yamal is probably amongst the most naturally gifted ever, second only to Messi this century. That doesn't necessarily mean he will have a better career.

I watched Ronaldo since his debut vs Bolton. If i was to compare the 2 players' natural talent:
Dribbling:
Yamal is one of the best dribblers ever with great skills, control and end product while often topping dribbles completed in Europe.

Cristiano was a good dribbler in 06/07; before that, his dribbles were very inconsistent and mostly did not lead to chances for himself or his teammate. His ball skills often looked rehearsed and again often lacked substance. After that, the numbers progressively dwindled and were no longer at world class level.

Playmaking: i think there is a huge gulf in this aspect of their respective games. Cristiano simply lacked the vision, creativity and execution that Yamal has even at this age. I find it baffling that he couldn't learn this. Not surprising that he has struggled after his physical powers waned.

Goalscoring: ofcourse Cristiano is one of the greatest goalscorers ever but this is something he learned over time rather than an innate gift as evidenced by his stats early on vs 07/08 onwards. Yamal at this age has more goals but even for him i do not think it comes as naturally to him as other aspects of his game.
 
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Zehner said:
Christian Streich, a German coach who lead Freiburg from relegation fodder into the UCL with a tiny budget, had nothing but praise for Yamal's defensive work rate. I definitely think it makes playing Spain's dominant brand of football much easier if every player works against the ball. Additionally, I believe Yamal helps his team a lot more than Mbappe at retaining possession under pressure and progressing the ball. In my opinion that is an extremely underrated quality in attacking players. Quite obviously, Spain has better midfielders than France but it makes their life so much easier if the team can rely on somebody like Yamal to be another outlet besides the CMs who can receive the ball and find a solution few players in the world would.

I didn't see every Spain match but in the ones I saw, I thought he was excellent even if he didn't score or assist. That was maybe a bit overlooked because the other superstars scored like crazy this tournament.
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Thanks for this. I apologise if I came across as scornful of your position before, because your comments in our debate really got me thinking. It's also clear that you don't have any personal agenda, and your statements are just based on your analysis of what you see. I regret that I suggested otherwise.
 
Zehner said:
Christian Streich, a German coach who lead Freiburg from relegation fodder into the UCL with a tiny budget, had nothing but praise for Yamal's defensive work rate. I definitely think it makes playing Spain's dominant brand of football much easier if every player works against the ball. Additionally, I believe Yamal helps his team a lot more than Mbappe at retaining possession under pressure and progressing the ball. In my opinion that is an extremely underrated quality in attacking players. Quite obviously, Spain has better midfielders than France but it makes their life so much easier if the team can rely on somebody like Yamal to be another outlet besides the CMs who can receive the ball and find a solution few players in the world would.

I didn't see every Spain match but in the ones I saw, I thought he was excellent even if he didn't score or assist. That was maybe a bit overlooked because the other superstars scored like crazy this tournament.
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Yamal was coming into the tournament with an injury too, but even so he played team football on both sides of the ball rather than being desperate to show he is "the man". He is a great team player and had a fantastic season. I don't feel a 4 weeks tournament (which he won) should define his season over 10 months of day in day out football. Same goes for every player, the award should be for the complete body of work, not who shone most in a brief period at the end.
 
He's been back to his best at the start of the season. Him and Raphina look outrageous, Gordon has done pretty well too. Their midfield is ridiculous, the front 3 will get plenty of supply
 
Hoof the ball said:
"Is Yamal at risk of losing motivation?"

I don't know, but this is a very healthy perspective to have for a young guy.

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Discussed this with another poster during/after the World Cup. He had (by his standards) a poor tournament offensively, but he did his part for the team in the press. Rodri, specifically talked about it, that he was proud of Yamal for contributing on the defensive side.
 
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