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passtheball

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What style of play is that then exactly ?

Everytime I have watched them (admittedly its very rare !) their main attacking stratedgy is to turn the ball over then whack a long ball to the wings or push both wing backs high up the field to again cross the ball.

I dont see anything else in their play, long balls, press and long balls then rely on individual talent ...
You are probably underestimating what it takes to coach a team to press in the synchronized way that Liverpool do. At United, individual players like Fernandes try to get it going while the rest of the team is static.

It is not surprising that a lot of United fans seem to have forgotten what a team press looks like, since we have had reactive, defensive managers since 2016 (or 2014 really).
 

stefan92

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You are probably underestimating what it takes to coach a team to press in the synchronized way that Liverpool do. At United, individual players like Fernandes try to get it going while the rest of the team is static.

It is not surprising that a lot of United fans seem to have forgotten what a team press looks like, since we have had reactive, defensive managers since 2016 (or 2014 really).
Jürgen Klopp said during his Dortmund time "Gegenpressing is the best playmaker in the world". Of course moments of individual brilliance help every team, but Liverpool (and Dortmund before that) create a lot due to the way their pressing is planned, organised and executed. The long balls are part of that plan.
 

Rampant Red Rodriguez

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That's very worrying.The football is still as dull as ever and it looks like our results are still extremely hot and cold too. Nice.
Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho were so much more boring, literally couldn't watch the football until the last 15 mins because they made me fall asleep during the game |o|. You must be a young person to think the football is boring because I'm entertained whenever I watch them.

Even if every single bloody result doesn't go our way the effort and skill on show is good to watch and we are only 7 league games, 2 UCL and 2 other Cup games into the season which has had 2 international breaks and new players come in lastminute.com...

Relax sunshine, the football is good and I'm confident enough to say we'll get better.

Interchange your support between City or Chelsea if you want to win every game, might suit some of you Ole out lot bit better than being Manchester United supporters..
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho were so much more boring, literally couldn't watch the football until the last 15 mins because they made me fall asleep during the game |o|. You must be a young person to think the football is boring because I'm entertained whenever I watch them.

Even if every single bloody result doesn't go our way the effort and skill on show is good to watch and we are only 7 league games, 2 UCL and 2 other Cup games into the season which has had 2 international breaks and new players come in lastminute.com...

Relax sunshine, the football is good and I'm confident enough to say we'll get better.

Interchange your support between City or Chelsea if you want to win every game, might suit some of you Ole out lot bit better than being Manchester United supporters..
It’s like Ole Bingo.

- ‘You must be young’ if you don’t rate Ole, check.

Football better than Jose actively attempting to get fired, check.

- Talk up ‘effort’ as if other teams don’t often outwork our own, check.

- Say you’re confident the football will improve but provide no basis for this assumption other than blind faith, check.
 

Womp

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Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho were so much more boring, literally couldn't watch the football until the last 15 mins because they made me fall asleep during the game |o|. You must be a young person to think the football is boring because I'm entertained whenever I watch them.

Even if every single bloody result doesn't go our way the effort and skill on show is good to watch and we are only 7 league games, 2 UCL and 2 other Cup games into the season which has had 2 international breaks and new players come in lastminute.com...

Relax sunshine, the football is good and I'm confident enough to say we'll get better.

Interchange your support between City or Chelsea if you want to win every game, might suit some of you Ole out lot bit better than being Manchester United supporters..
There are so many inaccuracies in this post, I'm not even sure where to begin.

1. Who has mentioned LVG or Jose? Ole being 'better' than them (which by the way, is completely subjective, as they spent less money, had less time and actually won silverware, unlike Ole) means feck all, as they were also deemed not good enough.

2. Effort is pointless without coaching. We aren't fecking Norwich busting our guts to try and stay in the Premier League, with the money spent, this team should be competing for the CL and PL and unfortunately the teams we are competing with for those trophies, can match us for squad quality and far exceed us in managerial ability.

3. This has nothing to do with this season. These issues have been prevalent since he joined 3 fecking years ago now. You're supposedly 'confident', why exactly? People have been seeing the same patterns with Ole since he has joined. This team goes through phases where they get some good results - congratulations, I'd expect nothing less from one of the most expensive squads on the planet with the talent we have. How about we address the fact that the only improvements to the actual football are completely personnel related, that our pressing, passing, movement etc. - all aspects of the game that are reliant on collective coaching is not of the required standard?

4. You're right, I should support City and Chelsea because I don't accept that a team that is just as gifted as those sides isn't performing to nearly as good a standard.

He's not good enough, I don't give a feck about his status here as a player. Great player, arguably the best moment as United fan that CL final, but as a manager he's nowhere near good enough for what we need now.
 

OpenIntrovert

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There are so many inaccuracies in this post, I'm not even sure where to begin.

1. Who has mentioned LVG or Jose? Ole being 'better' than them (which by the way, is completely subjective, as they spent less money, had less time and actually won silverware, unlike Ole) means feck all, as they were also deemed not good enough.

2. Effort is pointless without coaching. We aren't fecking Norwich busting our guts to try and stay in the Premier League, with the money spent, this team should be competing for the CL and PL and unfortunately the teams we are competing with for those trophies, can match us for squad quality and far exceed us in managerial ability.

3. This has nothing to do with this season. These issues have been prevalent since he joined 3 fecking years ago now. You're supposedly 'confident', why exactly? People have been seeing the same patterns with Ole since he has joined. This team goes through phases where they get some good results - congratulations, I'd expect nothing less from one of the most expensive squads on the planet with the talent we have. How about we address the fact that the only improvements to the actual football are completely personnel related, that our pressing, passing, movement etc. - all aspects of the game that are reliant on collective coaching is not of the required standard?

4. You're right, I should support City and Chelsea because I don't accept that a team that is just as gifted as those sides isn't performing to nearly as good a standard.

He's not good enough, I don't give a feck about his status here as a player. Great player, arguably the best moment as United fan that CL final, but as a manager he's nowhere near good enough for what we need now.

I would like to throw a question to all of you who believe Ole is clueless, does not know how to coach etc.

Explain how he managed to get 3rd place in 19/20 and 2nd place in 20/21 with the squad. It better be an answer that analyzes his tactics and in-game management and not dumb answers like "counter attacking" and "individual brilliance". To make your job easier, how about you guys analyze how we defeated Man City at Etihad last season and also the season before?

In case the counter attacking and individual brilliance replies come, let me explain why this is wrong. Ole's tactics are certainly not counter attacking, in fact his team is setup for a high press where he has 3 attacking forwards in a horizontal line and a center forward further up front. With the double pivot at the back, the tactics are aimed at blocking out the defensive midfield and main defense from playing the ball out. There is also alot more flexibility where the 2 forwards on the left and right side can defend and attack the wings without the need for the full backs to cover the entire wing.

Individual brilliance is also wrong as no players just go on to the pitch and strut their skills.The idea that players decide the game themselves is illogical. If that is the case, we might as well get all teams to play without managers. There are 2 reasons why fans think there is individual brilliance. One is due to the tactics that Ole uses, where the players are positioned in areas where they can make full use of their skills. The 2nd reason is that the players are quite direct and individualistic in their play, resulting in them being better at transitional attacks (thus the "counter attacking" feel) rather than creating and exploiting spaces against teams with low block. Since most teams come with a low block, there is a tendency for the players to try the individualistic approach due to their nature. Thus, the "individual brilliance".
 
Last edited:

Wilt

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It’s like Ole Bingo.

- ‘You must be young’ if you don’t rate Ole, check.

Football better than Jose actively attempting to get fired, check.

- Talk up ‘effort’ as if other teams don’t often outwork our own, check.

- Say you’re confident the football will improve but provide no basis for this assumption other than blind faith, check.
:lol:
 

AndySmith1990

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Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho were so much more boring, literally couldn't watch the football until the last 15 mins because they made me fall asleep during the game |o|. You must be a young person to think the football is boring because I'm entertained whenever I watch them.

Even if every single bloody result doesn't go our way the effort and skill on show is good to watch and we are only 7 league games, 2 UCL and 2 other Cup games into the season which has had 2 international breaks and new players come in lastminute.com...

Relax sunshine, the football is good and I'm confident enough to say we'll get better.

Interchange your support between City or Chelsea if you want to win every game, might suit some of you Ole out lot bit better than being Manchester United supporters..
I raised my eyebrow when you suggested that anyone who has a problem with Ole, go and support City or Chelsea as they're likely to win every game. We have a squad that is comparable in quality with those clubs, yet you are implying both those teams are significantly better. That in itself is an admission that you believe our manager to be inferior.
 

passtheball

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Jürgen Klopp said during his Dortmund time "Gegenpressing is the best playmaker in the world". Of course moments of individual brilliance help every team, but Liverpool (and Dortmund before that) create a lot due to the way their pressing is planned, organised and executed. The long balls are part of that plan.
Indeed. Both pressing (albeit not gegenpressing levels) and long balls were part of Fergie's style too. When Mourinho was sacked, I was hopeful that the pressing was going to come back, but Ole has been just as bad.
 

justsomebloke

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I would like to throw a question to all of you who believe Ole is clueless, does not know how to coach etc.

Explain how he managed to get 3rd place in 19/20 and 2nd place in 20/21 with the squad. It better be an answer that analyzes his tactics and in-game management and not dumb answers like "counter attacking" and "individual brilliance". To make your job easier, how about you guys analyze how we defeated Man City at Etihad last season and also the season before?

In case the counter attacking and individual brilliance replies come, let me explain why this is wrong. Ole's tactics are certainly not counter attacking, in fact his team is setup for a high press where he has 3 attacking forwards in a horizontal line and a center forward further up front. With the double pivot at the back, the tactics are aimed at blocking out the defensive midfield and main defense from playing the ball out. There is also alot more flexibility where the 2 forwards on the left and right side can defend and attack the wings without the need for the full backs to cover the entire wing.

Individual brilliance is also wrong as no players just go on to the pitch and strut their skills.The idea that players decide the game themselves is illogical. If that is the case, we might as well get all teams to play without managers. There are 2 reasons why fans think there is individual brilliance. One is due to the tactics that Ole uses, where the players are positioned in areas where they can make full use of their skills. The 2nd reason is that the players are quite direct and individualistic in their play, resulting in them being better at transitional attacks (thus the "counter attacking" feel) rather than creating and exploiting spaces against teams with low block. Since most teams come with a low block, there is a tendency for the players to try the individualistic approach due to their nature. Thus, the "individual brilliance".
I agree with your general argument, but I'm not sure you have it right in your description of how we press. I don't think we're generally pressing aggressively to shut down the opposing team in their own half. Rather, we typically play a mid block with only light pressing by the forwards, designed to force opposing defenders to play the ball forward to their midfield rather than seek deep balls behind our line - and to regain the ball further up the field, so that there will be space behind the opposition defence that can be exploited on the transition.
 

Womp

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I would like to throw a question to all of you who believe Ole is clueless, does not know how to coach etc.

Explain how he managed to get 3rd place in 19/20 and 2nd place in 20/21 with the squad. It better be an answer that analyzes his tactics and in-game management and not dumb answers like "counter attacking" and "individual brilliance". To make your job easier, how about you guys analyze how we defeated Man City at Etihad last season and also the season before?

In case the counter attacking and individual brilliance replies come, let me explain why this is wrong. Ole's tactics are certainly not counter attacking, in fact his team is setup for a high press where he has 3 attacking forwards in a horizontal line and a center forward further up front. With the double pivot at the back, the tactics are aimed at blocking out the defensive midfield and main defense from playing the ball out. There is also alot more flexibility where the 2 forwards on the left and right side can defend and attack the wings without the need for the full backs to cover the entire wing.

Individual brilliance is also wrong as no players just go on to the pitch and strut their skills.The idea that players decide the game themselves is illogical. If that is the case, we might as well get all teams to play without managers. There are 2 reasons why fans think there is individual brilliance. One is due to the tactics that Ole uses, where the players are positioned in areas where they can make full use of their skills. The 2nd reason is that the players are quite direct and individualistic in their play, resulting in them being better at transitional attacks (thus the "counter attacking" feel) rather than creating and exploiting spaces against teams with low block. Since most teams come with a low block, there is a tendency for the players to try the individualistic approach due to their nature. Thus, the "individual brilliance".
Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:
“We have a culture at Man United that we want to stick to: traditions, built from Sir Matt [Busby] and Sir Alex [Ferguson]: pace, power, quick attacks,” the 48-year-old continued.

“No one has invented any style by themselves. They have taken little bits from other managers and teams and I have taken a lot of my football philosophy from the time I was here at Man United and in Norway [as a player].

“I had some great coaches there with the same beliefs that we have to attack quickly when there is the chance and the opposition is out of balance then you counterattack.

“All the best teams can counterattack. All the best teams can break down a deep block. It’s about players – the quality [of them] and we are getting there – and getting better in most parts of our game.”
Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
 

soapythecat

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Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho were so much more boring, literally couldn't watch the football until the last 15 mins because they made me fall asleep during the game |o|. You must be a young person to think the football is boring because I'm entertained whenever I watch them.

Even if every single bloody result doesn't go our way the effort and skill on show is good to watch and we are only 7 league games, 2 UCL and 2 other Cup games into the season which has had 2 international breaks and new players come in lastminute.com...

Relax sunshine, the football is good and I'm confident enough to say we'll get better.

Interchange your support between City or Chelsea if you want to win every game, might suit some of you Ole out lot bit better than being Manchester United supporters..
‘Relax, the football is good’ :lol::lol:
 

b82REZ

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Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:

Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
Excellent post.
 

Giggsy13

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Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:

Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
Excellent post, you hit on all the right points! However your points are far too advanced and reasonable for the Ole in mob to understand.
 

lilcurt

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Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:

Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
Thank you for replying with what I would have but wouldn't have articulated as well.

The simplest way I look at it is swap out management and coaches with any other top 6 club in the league. Does anyone actually believe our suite of coaches would make those clubs better they they are now.
 

Danillaco

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That represents a downright astounding level of self-delusion, even in the general climate of hysteria around this issue currently.

If you want to talk about stats, sorry, but those generally make a far better case for retaining OGS than for sacking him. Unless you've decided to boil everything down to the single issue of "no trophy yet!", which is just stupid. And excuse me, but if anyone's doing "subjective nonsense" in the face of facts, it's the opposite crowd - "inconsistency", "patterns of play", "just moments of individual brilliance", "can't defend", "wrong lineup", "no tactics" - in short, and in summation "the football is worse".
After three years and no trophies, it's very normal to be weary of what's going on. To make matters worst, after three years how so you judge United's tactics and overall game?

Do you watch United excited for our style of play? You get consistent performances of a team stacked with quality players? Do you see our weaknesses being addressed or at least diminished by our pattern of play?
 

Danillaco

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Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:

Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
This is a phenomenal post.
 

Giggsy13

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In isolation those stats are not acceptable, but the majority of those home games were played in the covid season where no crowds took the vast majority of home advantage away, which is fact backed up by the stats. Which makes the statistic itself somewhat tenuous.

I agree that our tendency to concede is very much concerning though and something we need to get to grips with if we are to have any chance of challenging for the title this season.

The thing is taking stats that start and end in different season can be a little misleading we know that at the end of last season we had a lot of dead rubbers and alot of games piled on top of each other that skews the numbers and the statistic difficult to really make much off.

In terms of title winning traits we have seen 7 league games at the start of the season where we are trying to blood a few new players in and have been missing one of our best players from last season (rashford) that we can really judge Ole on his ability with a squad that's good enough to potentially challenge for the title. Because anything that has come before he simply didn't have the quality at his disposal.

7 games is very small sample size, its been a little dissapointing and particularly the villa defeat in that aspect. But let's see what happens if Ole can get the team to gel and start playing we know that they can, at the very least he deserves more than 7 games.
Prior to project re-start in the 2019/20 season, our record at home was 8 wins, 5 draws and 2 losses. In the same vein in which you argue that we can't overstate the losses at home due to empty stadiums, we also cannot overstate the away unbeaten streak when the majority of games were played in front of empty stadiums.

We have a fairly large sample size to judge Ole and he has failed to turn OT into a fortress and still despite significant investment cannot keep enough clean sheets to make us genuine title contenders.
 

Kurton

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Excellent post, you hit on all the right points! However your points are far too advanced and reasonable for the Ole in mob to understand.
Not to mentioned 2019/2020 season we had to beat a depleted Leicester side on the last matchday to get the 3rd spot. Might as well have ended the season in 5th spot easily. These Ole inners speak as if we had 3rd secured early that season. If that were the case, these inners wouldn't have Ole still in charge to give excuses as board would have sacked him for missing on top 4 no matter if it was only on the last matchday.
 
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justsomebloke

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After three years and no trophies, it's very normal to be weary of what's going on. To make matters worst, after three years how so you judge United's tactics and overall game?

Do you watch United excited for our style of play? You get consistent performances of a team stacked with quality players? Do you see our weaknesses being addressed or at least diminished by our pattern of play?
Three years and no trophies is what we had to expect, given the situation we were in when OGS took over. No one had reason to think otherwise, the club was clear this was going to be a proper rebuild. I totally don't buy into the notion that United fans have every right to be furious at that, I think that's rubbish. What matters is emerging from that with a team that can truly contend for the PL, and continue doing so for many years.

I see a team that's made excellent progress for two seasons, and that have certainly since February 2020 been playing the most exciting and effective football United has been playing since SAF retired, by a considerable margin. I certainly also see a team that has performed at least up to the level the quality of the squad would suggest.

So far this year' it's worrying though. And it needs to improve. But it's still early. And is no reason for people to start rewriting the history of recent seasons just because they haven't got a trophy.
 

Danillaco

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Three years and no trophies is what we had to expect, given the situation we were in when OGS took over. No one had reason to think otherwise, the club was clear this was going to be a proper rebuild. I totally don't buy into the notion that United fans have every right to be furious at that, I think that's rubbish. What matters is emerging from that with a team that can truly contend for the PL, and continue doing so for many years.

I see a team that's made excellent progress for two seasons, and that have certainly since February 2020 been playing the most exciting and effective football United has been playing since SAF retired, by a considerable margin. I certainly also see a team that has performed at least up to the level the quality of the squad would suggest.

So far this year' it's worrying though. And it needs to improve. But it's still early. And is no reason for people to start rewriting the history of recent seasons just because they haven't got a trophy.
Expected? OK, but not justified when we have reached finals and semis with lesser teams and still couldn't beat them.

Worst than the trophy thing is the proper display of the team. Apart fr that stint in the beginning we were never consistent top quality.
 

SAFMUTD

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Three years and no trophies is what we had to expect, given the situation we were in when OGS took over. No one had reason to think otherwise, the club was clear this was going to be a proper rebuild. I totally don't buy into the notion that United fans have every right to be furious at that, I think that's rubbish. What matters is emerging from that with a team that can truly contend for the PL, and continue doing so for many years.

I see a team that's made excellent progress for two seasons, and that have certainly since February 2020 been playing the most exciting and effective football United has been playing since SAF retired, by a considerable margin. I certainly also see a team that has performed at least up to the level the quality of the squad would suggest.

So far this year' it's worrying though. And it needs to improve. But it's still early. And is no reason for people to start rewriting the history of recent seasons just because they haven't got a trophy.
No one expected no trophies, you make it sound as if its completely normal to go trophyless for 3 years.Guess what, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho for all the bad they made they won trophies. How Ole who, allegedly, has improved the squad and performances so much be excused from winning trophies?

Not only City, Liverpool and Chelsea won trophies during that period, Arsenal and Leicester won as well. Minor trophies, but at least won something. Claiming that because we had a toxic environment for 4 months 3 years ago we shouldnt expect any trophies well thats setting up the bar as low as it can be set.

Truth is the "most exciting and effective football United has been playing since SAF retired" hasnt even been able to reach Mourinho's point tally nor won a single trophy. So much for effectiveness. You can fool yourself as much as you want but deep down you know this is not good enough, its heading no where. Time is running against Ole, cant hold on onto the "rebuild" excuse for much longer and ultimately, legend or not, he'll be judged accordingly and will be sacked. Unfortunately we'll have wasted another season by that time.
 

justsomebloke

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Expected? OK, but not justified when we have reached finals and semis with lesser teams and still couldn't beat them.

Worst than the trophy thing is the proper display of the team. Apart fr that stint in the beginning we were never consistent top quality.
okay. You expected "consistent top quality" for the past two seasons? Good luck with that.

Generally, not just you: You want trophies. You want top, dominant football. You want patterns of play. You want a superstar manager. You want a top midfield. And you want it now. It's been 3 years and 300 million, where's my fecking trophy? It should be here by now because I really really want it to, and I've waited like forever. And it's all shit, it is. Same shit for three years, three years I've not got what I want, so it's all the same, the whole time, and I'm not waiting any longer, 300 million, more than City so why aren't we as good as them, bloody amateurs.

Seriously people, get a grip. You've placed your heads where all you'll see is crap.
 

justsomebloke

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No one expected no trophies, you make it sound as if its completely normal to go trophyless for 3 years.Guess what, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho for all the bad they made they won trophies. How Ole who, allegedly, has improved the squad and performances so much be excused from winning trophies?

Not only City, Liverpool and Chelsea won trophies during that period, Arsenal and Leicester won as well. Minor trophies, but at least won something. Claiming that because we had a toxic environment for 4 months 3 years ago we shouldnt expect any trophies well thats setting up the bar as low as it can be set.

Truth is the "most exciting and effective football United has been playing since SAF retired" hasnt even been able to reach Mourinho's point tally nor won a single trophy. So much for effectiveness. You can fool yourself as much as you want but deep down you know this is not good enough, its heading no where. Time is running against Ole, cant hold on onto the "rebuild" excuse for much longer and ultimately, legend or not, he'll be judged accordingly and will be sacked. Unfortunately we'll have wasted another season by that time.
it IS completely normal to go trophyless for three seasons. Unless you're top contender, which we haven't been for years. But which we are painstakingly making our wsy back to being. That's what I care about, not whether we won a Carabao Cup in 2019.

rebuild is not an excuse. It is the overriding, all important goal for these seasons, far more important than cups. And what ogs should be judged on, ultimately.
 

SAFMUTD

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it IS completely normal to go trophyless for three seasons. Unless you're top contender, which we haven't been for years. But which we are painstakingly making our wsy back to being. That's what I care about, not whether we won a Carabao Cup in 2019.
Were we a top contender under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho? are we not a top contender under Ole? if so who's fault is that?

Trophies are expected of every manager, Ole has been riding the rebuild wave for way too long now.
 

Shimo

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2 points of consistency we will have under current management

1) Inconsistent performances and results. I have zero faith in us putting a streak of 7-8 wins a row let along 17-18 wins that a City or Liverpool could put together.
2) We will string together a result or set of results just as questions arise as to will this be the game that gets Ole the sack.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Explain how he managed to get 3rd place in 19/20 and 2nd place in 20/21 with the squad. It better be an answer that analyzes his tactics and in-game management and not dumb answers like "counter attacking" and "individual brilliance". To make your job easier, how about you guys analyze how we defeated Man City at Etihad last season and also the season before?
You spouted a lot of nonsense but let’s focus on this part.

Yes we beat City, we also lost to Palace at home a couple of times. That’s the trouble with pinpointing one off results with no context, we beat Citeh & they won the league. They also beat us in the Cup game of relevance but congrats to Ole on winning the Manchester Domestic League Game Cup.

Then there’s another problem with reductive ‘arguments’ like the one you pose above. If we follow the pattern, he’s finished 3rd, then 2nd, so does that mean him finishing anything but 1st is a failure? Or does incremental league progress not matter in spite of a stronger squad. You’re actually doing him a disservice by using such a ridiculous measure.

You want answers that analyse his tactics & in game management so how about you provide some of that armchair analysis to explain why we still struggle against packed defences.

I’ve seen some absolute nonsense in OgSs defence but you’ve raised the bar. ‘he beat Man City’ ffs!
 

OpenIntrovert

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You spouted a lot of nonsense but let’s focus on this part.

Yes we beat City, we also lost to Palace at home a couple of times. That’s the trouble with pinpointing one off results with no context, we beat Citeh & they won the league. They also beat us in the Cup game of relevance but congrats to Ole on winning the Manchester Domestic League Game Cup.

Then there’s another problem with reductive ‘arguments’ like the one you pose above. If we follow the pattern, he’s finished 3rd, then 2nd, so does that mean him finishing anything but 1st is a failure? Or does incremental league progress not matter in spite of a stronger squad. You’re actually doing him a disservice by using such a ridiculous measure.

You want answers that analyse his tactics & in game management so how about you provide some of that armchair analysis to explain why we still struggle against packed defences.

I’ve seen some absolute nonsense in OgSs defence but you’ve raised the bar. ‘he beat Man City’ ffs!
I think you dont understand my question. I actually asked for a overall analysis of his tactics and in game management during the 2019/20 season. But a full season maybe too complex so i made your "job" easier by choosing the Man City games. The intention was to see if you can explain his tactics rather than implying he is the best because he beat city.

The reason why we struggle against packed defences is because of the playing nature of the squad. Ole's 4-2-3-1 tactic has at least 6 players wrapping the entire opponent's defensive half in a hexagon like shape where the players are meant to high press the defense and defensive midfield. The idea is to block any supply coming out from the opponent's defense half and at the same time, to allow various options of attacking them (from the wings, through the center, from the double pivot etc). Based on his tactic, Bruno Fernandes has alot of freedom due to the center forward, 2 wingers and double pivot creating space for him to exploit the opponent's defense. So the tactic is not a problem at all.

However all the attacking players that we have (Excluding Sancho and DVB) are too direct and individualistic/risk takers. The key to unlocking packed defenses is to create spaces in between the defense for other players to move in and exploit. This must be done quickly (e.g. one touch passing). Our attacking players tend to dribble too much (e.g. Greenwood, Pogba and rashford) and sometimes dont get into positions for the balls to be passed to them. There is also an over-reliance on Bruno to pull the strings some times. Basically the players lack intelligent off the ball movement as well as making bad decisions on the ball, which is why they are unable to unlock the packed defenses. The purchase of Sancho and Van De Beek was supposed to help with this, but Van De Beek cant get in as Bruno and Pogba are quite dominant.
 
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OpenIntrovert

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Using his finishes as if they were some sort of impressive feat is funny to me. Let's get some context. In 2019/20 we finished on 66 points - same points as Chelsea. That was a whole 15 points behind City in second and 33 points behind the league leaders. We were closer to Bournemouth and Watford (who both got relegated) than we were to the league leaders.

We came 2nd last season due to circumstance - not down to our brilliance. We finished on 74 points, which going off the points required in the past few seasons would have had us 3rd. We finished only 4 points ahead of a Liverpool side who were basically playing with midfielders in defence for the majority of the season. Chelsea once Tuchel came in accumulated more points in that period than Ole did for United, whilst also winning arguably the most prestigious trophy available in football.

These 'achievements' if you can even call them that, without context can always be spun to look great. In reality, he's got a squad that is one of the most expensive on the planet and he's won the square root of feck all in 3 years, struggling to even match the points tally of a Jose Mourinho who also wasn't good enough, despite having a far better squad.

Let's start breaking down your assessment of the side now.

Firstly - how does the fact that the side 'presses' (I use quotation marks because our pressing is fecking laughable at times), mean we aren't a counter attacking side? Even that City game you used as an example, we were more than happy to concede posession to them, they were camped in our half for the majority of the game, they had a feck tonne of shots, just couldn't score and made some individual errors. Ole Gunnar himself claims we are a direct, counter attacking side, which goes against your point:

Also your explanation of forwards being in a horizontal line is extremely basic football. Most forward lines are alongside eachother, that hardly makes him a football revolutionary. Also yes, I agree, we do try to stop the opposition from playing out from the back - we are just fecking woeful at it, with players pressing out of sync, Bruno being the only one to press at times, leaving space in behind for opposition to progress further forward etc.

No-one is suggesting he just throws players out onto the pitch to play. The complaints being sent his way are that given his coaching capabilities/approach we rely too much on individual quality, whether or not that is his intention is irrelevant. If he is trying to implement a collective style that improves the level of the squad but isn't able to do so, that's still failure.

There are very clear issues with our play, that have been prevalent since he's joined. The improvement in playing personnel has made it more apparent as we are falling short in the aspects of the game that are far more reliant on him and the coaching staff than the players. Our pressing is very poor and unorganised at times, we lack triangles on the pitch and far too often players are situated too far from eachother, movement off the ball isn't good enough, passing is too slow and predictable, allowing opposition defences to shift over etc. These are issues that are his responsibility to sort out.

Lastly apologies, but your last point is fecking ridiculous. Since lots of teams play a low block against us, players decide to become individualistic? Firstly, I thought we weren't reliant on individuals, so which is it? You're claiming we both aren't individualistic and supposedly that the players also choose to be at the same time. Secondly, Pep, Tuchel, Klopp etc. have some of the best players in the world in their team and also have to deal with low blocks - that's literally the whole purpose of having a collective style. If you genuinely think players being coached to pass better, move better, if you can implement triangles which allow forwards to be isolated against FB's etc. isn't going to improve your chances against a low block, then there is no point even having this discussion, as we obviously very clearly have different opinions on football.
I will keep this short. Just 2 points.

1) i was expecting an answer regarding the analysis of his tactics and in game management during the 19/20 season. As explained in my other reply, a full season might be too complex so analyzing just the tactics he used against Man City that season will suffice. Unless you have the answer, please refrain from replying to my question.

2) You might want to practise patience while reading posts. There are so many misinterpretations and assumptions that it might take me a day just to correct all of them.

The best example of your misinterpretation is when you said that Ole mentioned we are a counter attacking side yet his quote is only stating his thoughts on the style of play that he has learnt in Norway, the style of play that Manchester United was built on during Sir Matt Busy/SAF era and the style of play that the best teams should be capable of. The only inference you can make from his statement is that he wants to build his team to be capable of counter attacks as well as breaking down low blocks but that will be dependent on the quality of his players. Players quality is not = tactics.
 
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Womp

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I will keep this short. Just 2 points.

1) i was expecting an answer regarding the analysis of his tactics and in game management during the 19/20 season. As explained in my other reply, a full season might be too complex so analyzing just the tactics he used against Man City that season will suffice. Unless you have the answer, please refrain from replying to my question.

2) You might want to practise patience while reading posts. There are so many misinterpretations and assumptions that it might take me a day just to correct all of them.

The best example of your misinterpretation is when you said that Ole mentioned we are a counter attacking side yet his quote is only stating his thoughts on the style of play that he has learnt in Norway, the style of play that Manchester United was built on during Sir Matt Busy/SAF era and the style of play that the best teams should be capable of. The only inference you can make from his statement is that he wants to build his team to be capable of counter attacks as well as breaking down low blocks but that will be dependent on the quality of his players. Players quality is not = tactics.
1. I have given you a breakdown on tactics. You used a game in which we had 34% posession and almost half the amount of passes as the opposition as some sort of example that we ain't a counter attacking side. It was a fecking terrible example. We are a team who rely on quick transitions, which is made even more evident by the fact that we only seem to look impressive against teams that give us space. It's why you could make a realistic argument that the only game this whole season so far where we've looked like a PL winning team was against Leeds - who have a very specific style of play. (You could maybe put Newcastle into that too)

Your extremely basic breakdown of our tactics doesn't dispute that fact. Yes, he plays with a horizontal front three, so does the majority of teams on the planet. He utilises a 10 who he deploys further forward, as a second striker, whilst having two defensive midfielders who sit deep to recycle posession and break up play. Our fullbacks both stay out wide to create width whilst our forwards like to cut inside. If this doesn't work, the ball is played backwards, recycled to our defence or midfield who try out balls into the open area that was created out wide for the fullbacks or the forwards. Our football really isn't that difficult to decipher.

It's quite basic, if anything. It lacks triangles, lacks quick movement, quick one-touch passing. We are slow at moving the ball, predictable in our passing and have an extremely disjointed press. We very rarely are able to isolate our forwards against fullbacks due to our underwhelming coaching and lack of triangles/movement. As a result, our forwards are far too often facing multiple defenders, with our slow and predictable passing making matters more difficult as we give opposition defence's ample time to shift. Our posession for large parts of the game is purely for the sake of keeping the ball and achieves little. We create clear cut chances to a far lesser degree than our competitors, evidence by our far lower xG. We don't get to the by line for cut backs enough. etc. etc.

2. Sorry, but once again - I don't agree. He specifically suggests he had coaches who 'shared the same beliefs', about quick transitions. Also his quote about it all being down to the quality of the players is inconsistent with your opinion that we supposedly are not a side reliant on individuals.
 

Womp

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I think you dont understand my question. I actually asked for a overall analysis of his tactics and in game management during the 2019/20 season. But a full season maybe too complex so i made your "job" easier by choosing the Man City games. The intention was to see if you can explain his tactics rather than implying he is the best because he beat city.

The reason why we struggle against packed defences is because of the playing nature of the squad. Ole's 4-2-3-1 tactic has at least 6 players wrapping the entire opponent's defensive half in a hexagon like shape where the players are meant to high press the defense and defensive midfield. The idea is to block any supply coming out from the opponent's defense half and at the same time, to allow various options of attacking them (from the wings, through the center, from the double pivot etc). Based on his tactic, Bruno Fernandes has alot of freedom due to the center forward, 2 wingers and double pivot creating space for him to exploit the opponent's defense. So the tactic is not a problem at all.

However all the attacking players that we have (Excluding Sancho and DVB) are too direct and individualistic/risk takers. The key to unlocking packed defenses is to create spaces in between the defense for other players to move in and exploit. This must be done quickly (e.g. one touch passing). Our attacking players tend to dribble too much (e.g. Greenwood, Pogba and rashford) and sometimes dont get into positions for the balls to be passed to them. There is also an over-reliance on Bruno to pull the strings some times. Basically the players lack intelligent off the ball movement as well as making bad decisions on the ball, which is why they are unable to unlock the packed defenses. The purchase of Sancho and Van De Beek was supposed to help with this, but Van De Beek cant get in as Bruno and Pogba are quite dominant.

It's odd - I actually agree with your assessment but you seem to be contradicting yourself. A few things here: you are justifying our tactical approach due to the type of players we have, completely disregarding the fact that this is now for the most part Ole's team of players. He's had ample opportunity to sign the players he would have needed. So no, that excuse doesn't slide. Secondly, our players dribbling too much etc. instead of placing a bigger emphasis on one-touch passing and what not is completely down to coaching. You literally share the exact same concerns that the majority of the 'Ole out' (I hate this Ole out/in rubbish btw) seems to be suggesting on here.

One touch passing, movement off the ball, making the correct decisions etc. - that is extremely reliant on coaching. You are both identifying the weaknesses in our game (which I agree with) but completely absolving the manager of any blame. It's on him to get the team playing to the required standard. It's on him to sign the correct players for that style. If he can't do it, he's failed.

The player excuse really doesn't slide with me, you have managers with far lesser players getting them playing some great stuff. Brighton under Potter, RB Leipzig under Nagelsmann, Atalanta under Gasperini etc. Yes, the football wasn't always successful (because you need great players to win major trophies), but the football being played was very evident and progressive. That isn't the same with us.

It's not the player's fault that a manager who has spent almost half a million on players, on top of an already very good squad can't get them playing the required level of football. That's on him.
 

yipthatman

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Ole is finished as a top level manager. He will never relive his past glories like at Molde or Cardiff.
 

Manncunian

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Yeah...

Well I don't care about the last 20 but the next 20.

He's not leaving this season so eat it.
Why are you so happy to have him stay here all season? To the point where you say “eat it” to fellow fans?

What about our football and results makes you feel like you’ve won a little victory if he stays here all season?
 

Giggsy13

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I’m finding it difficult to see how we win even 3 of our next 9 games. The owners are going to have us dragged through the mud and embarrassed before making a move, which will likely be too late too salvage our season. We could conceivably be out of the group stages in Europe, more than 10 points from the top, and out of the top 4 before the board acts. Sack him now, bring in Conte as a permanent replacement OR have someone like Blanc or Hughes come in to take an interim role.
 

tomaldinho1

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We should start a thread which just tracks the last 10 games like a form guide. Will be unbiased and completely factual and give quick indicator of form and discussion around highs and lows. If it just updates every game, it then just becomes the go-to thread for form.
 

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We should start a thread which just tracks the last 10 games like a form guide. Will be unbiased and completely factual and give quick indicator of form and discussion around highs and lows. If it just updates every game, it then just becomes the go-to thread for form.
United DWLWLLDWDWDWWLWLLWDL
Chelsea WWWLWWLWDWWDWWWDLLWW
Man City WWWLWLWLLLWWWWDWWLDW
Liverpool WDDDWWWWWWWDWWWWDWDW

Updated. No loss for Liverpool in last 20.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
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United DWLWLLDWDWDWWLWLLWDL
Chelsea WWWLWWLWDWWDWWWDLLWW
Man City WWWLWLWLLLWWWWDWWLDW
Liverpool WDDDWWWWWWWDWWWWDWDW

Updated. No loss for Liverpool in last 20.
I meant just for United & 10 games as feel 20 is a bit too large a sample but that’s interesting.

Pool ridiculous form. Worryingly those three have all played each other already.