Last 20: LWDLWLWDLL | WDWWDWDWLW

Eli Zee

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Ole sucks... the team is great. Put someone who knows what they're doing in charge and we'll start dominating teams.

pretty much every game is a toss up with us. That's not because the players aren't good enough.
 

Nicolarra90

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Yeah...

Well I don't care about the last 20 but the next 20.

He's not leaving this season so eat it.
 

hobbers

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And even then there are wins like Villarreal where we deserved to get hammered. Several of them last season as well i.e. the mauling at Brighton that somehow ended 3-2 to us.

Don't think I can remember a single defeat in the last season plus that we deserved to win, dominated the game and had all the chances and lost through sheer bad luck.
 

Charlie Foley

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And even then there are wins like Villarreal where we deserved to get hammered. Several of them last season as well i.e. the mauling at Brighton that somehow ended 3-2 to us.

Don't think I can remember a single defeat in the last season plus that we deserved to win, dominated the game and had all the chances and lost through sheer bad luck.
Off the top of my head I can only think of the Everton 3-3 draw. We were much the better team in that and drew due to rank stupidity rather than bad luck per se
 

Charlie Foley

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And even then there are wins like Villarreal where we deserved to get hammered. Several of them last season as well i.e. the mauling at Brighton that somehow ended 3-2 to us.

Don't think I can remember a single defeat in the last season plus that we deserved to win, dominated the game and had all the chances and lost through sheer bad luck.
Also we should have absolutely beaten Sevilla in that semi final. We missed a ton of chances in that second half.
 

chiz2kul

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We've only managed 2 wins in a row once in our last 20, twice if we look at last 21.

The best unbeaten streak we've managed in 20 games is 4 games. Shocking.
The numbers speak for themselves. Pretty damning. Cannot challenges for titles with that degree of inconsistency.
 

Steve Bruce

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And yet we finished second and are currently two points off the top. The managers of the clubs below us should be shot at really.
2 points off the top but we've yet to play a top team and the other 3 have all played each other.

Context is key, we ideally should be 4 or 5 points better off going into the coming run of fixtures. By December we'll be 7 or more points behind and we'll out of the title picture.
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

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The numbers speak for themselves. Pretty damning. Cannot challenges for titles with that degree of inconsistency.
You have to give ole some credit. At least we are constantly inconsistent with the man. I reckon maybe another 300mil we can comfortably beat low blocks at home and draw them away. Because you know.. Passion.
 

stw2022

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Every time we play, no matter who we play, going into it feels like a coin toss
 

dove

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He is here for only 3 years. Did extremely well in that time and clearly overachieved with that terrible squad. Expecting anything more is ridiculous. I expect to see a true Ole’s United team by the end of 2026.
 

Nicolarra90

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2 points off the top but we've yet to play a top team and the other 3 have all played each other.

Context is key, we ideally should be 4 or 5 points better off going into the coming run of fixtures. By December we'll be 7 or more points behind and we'll out of the title picture.
Yet football doesn't work like that. City drew with Soton at home and then next week beat Chelsea away.

Probably every team will hit a rough patch sometime. If this was ours then we got away from it in a pretty good way.

Besides Ole has been pretty consistent every season, having rough patches but also purple patches. Let see where we are at Christmas. Below 35 should be the sacking limit IMO.
 

Pexbo

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WDWLWLLDWLWDWWLWLLWD
 

Steve Bruce

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Yet football doesn't work like that. City drew with Soton at home and then next week beat Chelsea away.

Probably every team will hit a rough patch sometime. If this was ours then we got away from it in a pretty good way.

Besides Ole has been pretty consistent every season, having rough patches but also purple patches. Let see where we are at Christmas. Below 35 should be the sacking limit IMO.
There's nothing to suggest we'll all of a sudden become fantastic and take 18 in our next 21 points, Which is what we should have got in our first 21 points because of this run of fixtures we had and have coming up. We needed a good start and didn't get it.

last season we drew the vast majority of the big games. That's no good to us now.

we need to win most of these games and not lose the rest. It's a tall order with how we're playing.

what happened in the past is irrelevant as last season Vs the top 6 was nothing like the season before.
 

DRJosh

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If we can’t muster a couple of convincing wins in the next 7 games, I can’t see the board sticking with Ole. They’ve spent a lot and backed him considerably.
 

Nicolarra90

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There's nothing to suggest we'll all of a sudden become fantastic and take 18 in our next 21 points, Which is what we should have got in our first 21 points because of this run of fixtures we had and have coming up. We needed a good start and didn't get it.

last season we drew the vast majority of the big games. That's no good to us now.

we need to win most of these games and not lose the rest. It's a tall order with how we're playing.

what happened in the past is irrelevant as last season Vs the top 6 was nothing like the season before.
Well as you say, last season is irrelevant and to certain extent all these last games are also irrelevant.

I think we'll do good in these games (probably we will beat liverpool and city to lose after to watford :lol:)
But in all seriousness hopefully Ronaldo and Varane experience show in the big games. And I personally have big faith in Rashford this season.

Also to take into acc that those will be much open games that the rest, so maybe are closer to a leeds type of game than an everton type.

If we got 18/21 as you say... well we should be champions. I'm more than content with 14-15.
 

passtheball

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If we can’t muster a couple of convincing wins in the next 7 games, I can’t see the board sticking with Ole. They’ve spent a lot and backed him considerably.
The board gave him the job prematurely on the back of a new-manager bounce.

The board gave him a contract extension after losing a 2nd rate cup final to European giants Villarreal.

As long as Ole doesn't start benching Ronaldo permanently, and as long as it looks like the club will finish in the top 4, the board don't care enough to sack him.
 

largelyworried

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Inconsistency is such a problem for us. Weirdly we started out with a run of 10 wins and 2 draws from our first 12 games under Ole. Since then we've had a few slightly longer unbeaten runs.

2019-2020 - 14 games unbeaten, 9 wins, 2.21 points per game
2020-2021 - 13 games unbeaten, 10 wins, 2.54 points per game
2020-2021 - 14 games unbeaten, 8 wins, 2.14 points per game

The two unbeaten runs from last season were only separated by one game and to be fair, they made up the bulk of the season. If you stitch those two runs together you get a run of 18 wins, 8 draws, 1 defeat from 28 games, which is our best longer run of form under Ole. Even that isnt quite title winning form, but its getting there (equivalent of about 84 points over a full season)

The problem is how bad our dips in form go. In the last few seasons we've had these bad runs.

2018-2019 - 2 wins and 5 defeats in 9 games - 19 points dropped
2019-2020 - 2 wins and 4 defeats in 9 games - 18 points dropped
2019-2020 - 3 wins and 4 defeats in 7 games - 12 points dropped
2020-2021 - 2 wins and 3 defeats in 6 games - 11 points dropped
2020-2021 - 1 win and 2 defeats in 4 games - 8 points dropped

We seem to alternate between spells of good form that isn't quite title winning form but is decent, and short sharp spells where we suddenly lose a bucketful of points in a short space of time.
 

The Plump Poet

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Does this really need to be a separate thread? Could it not go into one of the several Ole threads?
 

MUFC OK

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The form of a team who’d be luck to get 4th. We haven’t even gotten in a position to bottle it in the last few games of the season, which I’m certain we would should we ever get there. Can see no way that we don’t pass the 10 years without a title mark.
 

Siorac

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Then they'll care about 30 games as much as 20?

The same as Liverpool fans and you will care about their fixtures/runs.
If we look at the last 30 games instead of the last 20 then instead of 9 wins out of 20, it's 14 wins out of 30. Neither is anything to shout about, really. A below 50% win rate over such a relatively large sample of games is poor.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Then they'll care about 30 games as much as 20?

The same as Liverpool fans and you will care about their fixtures/runs.
Yes and they'll care about the last 30 years as much as the last 8 but still understand that it's possible to look at trends rather remain blinkered.

It's not about caring really but being able to view data without having to pay mental gymnastics and use whataboutism to make one feel better. Should Fred look at his recent performances and find ways to improve/eliminate the mistakes he's making or just keep referring Ole to the good games he had last season pointing out that the manager better "care" for them too?
 

Bilbo

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This is a thread on our form. Interesting you seem to think it relates to Ole?
Why wouldn't he? Even unrelated topics seem to be shovelled into more manager bashing within a handful of posts. It's almost as if everybody hasn't had ample opportunities to get their points across.
 
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If we look at the last 30 games instead of the last 20 then instead of 9 wins out of 20, it's 14 wins out of 30. Neither is anything to shout about, really. A below 50% win rate over such a relatively large sample of games is poor.
I didn’t say it was (15 W?)

But to … accidentally … pick the last 20 when the previous 10 were unbeaten, looks selective. Agree it still wouldn’t be good but it’s easy to pick facts to suit a case. As the saying goes “lies, damned lies and statistics”.
 
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Yes and they'll care about the last 30 years as much as the last 8 but still understand that it's possible to look at trends rather remain blinkered.

It's not about caring really but being able to view data without having to pay mental gymnastics and use whataboutism to make one feel better. Should Fred look at his recent performances and find ways to improve/eliminate the mistakes he's making or just keep referring Ole to the good games he had last season pointing out that the manager better "care" for them too?
Not sure what your point(s) there. Bit rambly.
 

Zen86

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Wow, here I was thinking everything was great. Good job this thread was created to shed light on the situation.
 

GBBQ

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I didn’t say it was (15 W?)

But to … accidentally … pick the last 20 when the previous 10 were unbeaten, looks selective. Agree it still wouldn’t be good but it’s easy to pick facts to suit a case. As the saying goes “lies, damned lies and statistics”.
Form is temporary and recent so 20 games to me seems a fair sample. To suggest including 10 games when clearly our form was different isn't balance it's distorting our current performance levels.

If we only focus on this season then we'd have WDWWLWLLWD, which is patchy form made much worse considering the opponents and the strengthening of our team.
 

Siorac

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I didn’t say it was (15 W?)

But to … accidentally … pick the last 20 when the previous 10 were unbeaten, looks selective. Agree it still wouldn’t be good but it’s easy to pick facts to suit a case. As the saying goes “lies, damned lies and statistics”.
The previous 10 weren't unbeaten either, it was 5-4-1. We lost the FA Cup semi-final against Leicester City during that run. If we go back another 10 games, it's 5-3-2. That's 19 wins in the last 40. That is pretty consistent mediocrity, overall.

Which is why it's ridiculous to accuse critics of knee-jerking over this season's results only. The issue is that we have been playing like this for a long time and it looks like we aren't getting better either.
 

Oranges038

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Does this really need to be a separate thread? Could it not go into one of the several Ole threads?
Unfortunately every thread ends up with the same posts about Ole being shit and needing to be replaced.

This should just be a post in the Ole discussion / performance thread. Doesn't warrant a thread on it's own.
 
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Form is temporary and recent so 20 games to me seems a fair sample. To suggest including 10 games when clearly our form was different isn't balance it's distorting our current performance levels.

If we only focus on this season then we'd have WDWWLWLLWD, which is patchy form made much worse considering the opponents and the strengthening of our team.
So 20 games is a fair sample but adding 10 more would be distorting it because our form was different (better) then?

Ahhh, got you.