Leadership

[Bastian]

We've been back and forth over the last 5 years in proclaiming either the team or our manager (at any given time) is terrible. This team looked great when Ole first came in and now looks very similar to the lowest points under Mourinho. Within the same game we can be brilliant and hopeless.

There are of course a number of problem areas with our team and the squad as a whole that hold us back significantly (mainly laid out in the "it's the players" thread).

And the hierarchy of the club is a very obvious weak point of the club.

But with this young bunch of players I think there are quite a few who would immediately benefit from having true leadership on the pitch. It's fine to target 2-3 top prospects, but more than anything, we need a figure on the pitch who cares more and is a consistent high level performer.

Are there any realistic targets out there?

 

[wolvored]

If there are they wouldnt come cheap if at all.

 

[Bastian]

If there are they wouldnt come cheap if at all.

I don't have any real faith that the board will make competent decisions going forward, but I still expect huge outlay this summer. Otherwise they've publicly given up on trying to restore the club.

 

[mariachi-19]

We should have signed Ronaldo last year before Juventus. He's a winner/megastar/worldbeater and his own Ego would put the likes of Pogba et el right in their place, much like Zlatan did.

 

[TMDaines]

We should have signed Ronaldo last year before Juventus. He's a winner/megastar/worldbeater and his own Ego would put the likes of Pogba et el right in their place, much like Zlatan did.

Ronaldo quite clearly has zero interest in ever playing for United again.

 

[Maticmaker]

We need a few leaders in the team, not just a captain figure. In the most successful teams of the past the likes of Keane, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Neville Bros, Bruce, Pallister, et al, were all leaders of one sort or another who pulled themselves up by the boot straps and did the same to those around them.

Confidence is also massively important and although collectively Ole has helped to inspire that in the team, there are still individuals whose personal confidence seems to ebb and flow too much. Ole's comments about working to a plan and 'drilling' the team is paramount now, that and replacing one or two players, who have passed their sell by date, or who will never reach it.

The honeymoon is over (bound to be as soon as the job was made permanent) but the direction of travel is good, the right targets and methods seem to be returning, lets just get that leadership business sorted!

 

[Bastian]

We should have signed Ronaldo last year before Juventus. He's a winner/megastar/worldbeater and his own Ego would put the likes of Pogba et el right in their place, much like Zlatan did.

Zlatan was hugely important for that exact reason. As soon as he left Pogba was big dog and the maturity level dropped. Ander is a great professional, but he's just not good enough to command that respect.

We need a few leaders in the team, not just a captain figure. In the most successful teams of the past the likes of Keane, Vidic, Rio, Evra, Neville Bros, Bruce, Pallister, et al, were all leaders of one sort or another who pulled themselves up by the boot straps and did the same to those around them.

Confidence is also massively important and although collectively Ole has helped to inspire that in the team, there are still individuals whose personal confidence seems to ebb and flow too much. Ole's comments about working to a plan and 'drilling' the team is paramount now, that and replacing one or two players, who have passed their sell by date, or who will never reach it.

The honeymoon is over (bound to be as soon as the job was made permanent) but the direction of travel is good, the right targets and methods seem to be returning, lets just get that leadership business sorted!

Of course gradually you want that to happen, but I think we need at least one and then others will step up. Thinking van Dijk at Liverpool. Kompany back in the day at City.

I keep racking my brain, but can't really think of anyone. Maybe Koke at Atletico, which is pretty unlikely. I'd take over-paid and slowly-declining Sergio Ramos in a heartbeat, as he's a winner. Then there are others in terms of work ethic like Kante, again unrealistic, and also, not really a leader.

 

[Buster15]

I have been immensely impressed with the way that Gareth Southgate has managed to bring out leaders among the current England squad.
Having said that, I can see no obvious leaders in our squad and that is a very big problem for us.

Our midfield is far too weak and get bossed by the opposition far too often.

 

[TRUERED89]

We should have signed Ronaldo last year before Juventus. He's a winner/megastar/worldbeater and his own Ego would put the likes of Pogba et el right in their place, much like Zlatan did.

Good point, instead of Fred and €15m more we could have done just that! But actually would Ronaldo have wanted to come back to this shit show at 33? I really doubt it, he would of wanted to come and slot into a well oiled machine ready to fight for PL/CL with him being the cherry on top to get them over the line.

 

[sajeev]

We've been back and forth over the last 5 years in proclaiming either the team or our manager (at any given time) is terrible. This team looked great when Ole first came in and now looks very similar to the lowest points under Mourinho. Within the same game we can be brilliant and hopeless.

There are of course a number of problem areas with our team and the squad as a whole that hold us back significantly (mainly laid out in the "it's the players" thread).

And the hierarchy of the club is a very obvious weak point of the club.

But with this young bunch of players I think there are quite a few who would immediately benefit from having true leadership on the pitch. It's fine to target 2-3 top prospects, but more than anything, we need a figure on the pitch who cares more and is a consistent high level performer.

Are there any realistic targets out there?

The bit in bold is clearly wrong.

 

[Ekeke]

Actual leadership is hard to come by. Playing well isnt leadership. Neither is screaming at teammates - Thats just frustration and passion leaking out.

Real leadership would be communicating well and building up the players around you, not making them look worse, at fault or to blame. Leadership would be dealing with problems on the pitch with a positive resolution, whilst maintaining a united front and not giving the impression that there is confusion and disarray among players. Because that will only enthuse the opposition. Thats what they want to see.

 

[Dr Fink]

I have been immensely impressed with the way that Gareth Southgate has managed to bring out leaders among the current England squad.
Having said that, I can see no obvious leaders in our squad and that is a very big problem for us.

Our midfield is far too weak and get bossed by the opposition far too often.

So who are the leaders in the England team? I'm struggling. Henderson? Kane? You've lost me, sorry. A bad comparison in my opinion, but I agree with your point.

 

[Buster15]

So who are the leaders in the England team? I'm struggling. Henderson? Kane? You've lost me, sorry. A bad comparison in my opinion, but I agree with your point.

Well. Obviously Kane is a leader and as you mentioned Henderson to a degree. I also see this in Stirling and Walker. Both are far more confident on and off the pitch. Pickford is very good at instructing his defence.
We don't see players like Roy Keane any more but that was not the type of leader I was meaning.

 

[Buster15]

Actual leadership is hard to come by. Playing well isnt leadership. Neither is screaming at teammates - Thats just frustration and passion leaking out.

Real leadership would be communicating well and building up the players around you, not making them look worse, at fault or to blame. Leadership would be dealing with problems on the pitch with a positive resolution, whilst maintaining a united front and not giving the impression that there is confusion and disarray among players. Because that will only enthuse the opposition. Thats what they want to see.

Exactly my view as well. That is evident by how smoothly new young players are able to make the transition into the squad.

 

[KirkDuyt]

So, I admit I didn't see the Wolves game, but was it really that fecking bad? I know the United forum is prone to knee-jerk muppetry, but Olé has still won like 16 out of 19 games or something? And knocked out PSG after being 0-2 down in the home leg?

Now Pogba is once again shite, the players aren't up for it and Olé is a tactically inept lightweight.

May you guys can sign Gio van Bronckhorst as his replacement, I heard he'll be available soon.

 

[sincher]

The Wolves result was no surprise to me. Thought we would struggle as soon as I saw the teams.

They are a good side, and they don't rotate much.

I didn't see the game either but sounds like we started brightly but they were better organised and grinded us down. Plus Youngie was sent off, so many fans have decided he should never play for us again (which I have heard before for Jones, Mata, Lingard, Smalling etc. etc.)

 

[Matt007a]

De Ligt is both a prospect and a leader. Whether our players would want to follow such a young man is questionable however. Especially as a new player to the squad. He'd be our club captain within 3 years if he joined us.

We've not had a proper leader since Zlatan left.

 

[poleglass red]

I think Ibra was like Pogba, a big personality, both had an aura. I wouldn't call either on pitch leaders though. None of them organizes the team, make sure players are pulling their weight, keeping their shape, doing their jobs. 2 terrific players but I feel we need a player who demands more from our team, not neccassirly ranting and raving but at the same time players need to know when they aren't doing their roles. Not many around, seems to be a dying breed, Kompany at City always filled that criteria for me.

 

[adexkola]

Leadership can be taught. It's inherent in every military academy all over the world. It doesn't have to be rah-rah, 'ave it leadership, but things as simple as being a good example for your team mates, never giving up, dedication to the finest detail on and off the pitch, zero-tolerance for bullshit around you... all that goes into being a good leader. That should be part of the job of every successful manager, to find those players who have or can be taught those skills. I think the reason everyone goes back to Keane is that beyond the rah-rah element which he had, he was a perfectionist and did not tolerate no slack in standards. The manager needs to stress it, and find those players who can be his subordinates in this regard, and can compel or inspire his mates to fall in line.

 

[poleglass red]

The thing with Keane that people don't recall is , when you did something good, he would congratulate you. That bit gets overlooked a little because of the otherside when he had a pop at people. Nev and Scholes did a show a while back. If you actually see the goals they show, Keane is invaribly the first player over congratulating the scorer.He wasn't all bad, and we need something like that in our team. I don't think the modern player could handle a Keane bollicking, but at the same time, they need to be held accountable. Maybe a less intense Keane like figure for the modern fragile player. But right now we've a mid with no accountability. Matic, Herrera and Pogba- all good players but not the type to inspire or lead.

 

[Based Adnan]

When our old guard now consists of Ashley Young, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones it's no wonder we struggle with a lack of leaders in our squad so much.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

I think if you look at the current squad, we do not have many "leaders" on the pitch, the fact that many see Ashley Young as a leader is scary, our last few captains (Carrick aside as he hardly played when captain) have been very very soft. If I look at the squad now, you could maybe look at Herrera and that would be about it, Lindelof after another season or so maybe as he looks like he could become that kind of player.

If you look at the type of players we are supposedly going after in the summer, Rice/Neves/Sancho/Ndombele/AWB etc. there are not to many leaders there.

I think Koulibaly would be a sensational buy as he would bring that command/respect at the back, he would organise and be a leader, ticks all the boxes for me.

We need one of two them who won't be scared to give out a few bollockings, especially when the likes of Pogba are messing about, losing possession, keeping the ball to long, we need someone who will rollock them get pull their sleeves up and get on with it.

problem is, they seem to be a dying breed these days.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think the whole 'leadership' buzzword is a lazy way to allow for a shit mentality. If you look around the top teams, there aren't really the screaming captain types, that's really becoming a thing of the past but you need players who are absolute robots under pressure. It's not leadership, it's confidence in yourself and your team.

We're like a bunch of hyped up bullies, we're incredible with the wind in our sails and all our players turn up when we're on top but if you stand up to us we wilt. If you are playing against us now you press our back 4 and DM, usually that pretty much stops us in our tracks, and failing that you retreat and sit back waiting for one of our players to try something stupid or a wayward long ball. We need players who aren't nervous to receive the ball and who, if we do concede, have absolute faith that we can get back into the game and not just panic.

 

[clarkydaz]

The Wolves result was no surprise to me. Thought we would struggle as soon as I saw the teams.

They are a good side, and they don't rotate much.

I didn't see the game either but sounds like we started brightly but they were better organised and grinded us down. Plus Youngie was sent off, so many fans have decided he should never play for us again (which I have heard before for Jones, Mata, Lingard, Smalling etc. etc.)

We were played off the park by Watford at old Trafford last Saturday, and running out of steam since the PSG games.

 

[Anders Agnalt]

We need to spend money on playrs that would love to play for the club not the wages!

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What you want isn't some screaming nutter playing army general, or - for that matter - someone constantly "leading" others in less theatrical ways. What you want is a standard everyone signs up for, so to speak, and then a few figures who insists on that standard when they see it slipping. That's what the "leaders" did under Fergie. Some were great players, others not that great - but they all insisted on that standard.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So, I admit I didn't see the Wolves game, but was it really that fecking bad?

Nah, seen far worse. The cup match, for instance, was a considerably worse performance.

Lacked the rub of the green, really, more than anything. But people are - understandably, I suppose - looking for signs of the proverbial wheels coming off now.

 

[breakout67]

I don't think it's leaders, rather players with quality that play with confidence. A slight amount of pressure and many of our players fold. They don't have the courage to take on their man, they pass the buck. This is especially apparent at the back with Young, Smalling and Jones.

I've watched the Juve, Barca and City defense. They defend proactively, when a player receives the ball they try to stop them from turning, when a player runs at them they wait for an opening to put a foot in, when they are pressed they take on their man or make a risky pass to beat the press. If worse comes to worse they make a clever foul and re group.

Smalling - a box defender, constantly back tracks and easy to direct through pressing traps. He knows his limitations and this results in a very safe approach.

Jones - A simple drop of the shoulder is enough to turn him, Hazard has done this so many times. Takes the 'no nonsense' approach way too far, which leads to comical defending at times, a sign that he is playing with fear and doesn't have the situation under control.

Young - A clear target for pressing, will hoof it to the striker most of the time when forced on his right foot. His understanding of the defensive line is shockingly bad.

I believe the Smalling-Young partnership on the right side of our defence stops us from playing on the front foot consistently. As well as the non existent right side, which puts even more pressure on that right side because they have no out ball.

 

[Bastian]

The bit in bold is clearly wrong.

In terms of having a number of players being passengers or bereft of any real confidence, I don't think so. I see a lack of cohesion, confidence and fight. We also missed a number of easy chances under Jose this season. If memory serves, I think Lukaku missed sitters in his first three games this season. That's nothing new.

And to clarify: By leadership, I am not thinking of someone who commands respect out of fear. Just no tolerance for childishness, bravado with no fight. Players who consistently perform and as such command respect and have an influence.

 

[OohAahMartial]

McTominay and Garner, Tuanzebe, Lee O'Connor and Gomes all have leadership skills and have captained either our youth sides or their national youth sides. At least our next generation looks brighter in this regard.

 

[Dr Fink]

Well. Obviously Kane is a leader and as you mentioned Henderson to a degree. I also see this in Stirling and Walker. Both are far more confident on and off the pitch. Pickford is very good at instructing his defence.
We don't see players like Roy Keane any more but that was not the type of leader I was meaning.

Sorry Kane is no leader and neither is Henderson. There's nobody who ticks all the leadership boxes. I agree we won't see a player like Keane again. However, we only remember the good things Keane did. The term "leader" has evolved. I think you need a fair bit of charisma, personality and obviously the talent and more importantly the effort to put in.

 

[mitchmouse]

Good point, instead of Fred and €15m more we could have done just that! But actually would Ronaldo have wanted to come back to this shit show at 33? I really doubt it, he would of wanted to come and slot into a well oiled machine ready to fight for PL/CL with him being the cherry on top to get them over the line.

I think he's shown time and again that he can get you success all by himself! Not sure, however, if he's the type to go back to anywhere

 

[Bastian]

Marcus saying post match that we need someone to keep the boys focused.

 

[Rood]

I was glad to see Maguire giving the team a roasting in the first half, need more of that

 

[Red_Aaron]

I was glad to see Maguire giving the team a roasting in the first half, need more of that

I agree but I'd like to see it earlier to be honest.

You could tell within 5 mins today that shef utd were out working us all over the pitch and at no point did I see anyone trying to gee us up. Its currently our biggest problem for me, we're prone to sleep walking through large periods of time.

When we're on it we've shown we're a match for most teams but too often we start flat and struggle to step it up. That comes from the players recognising and digging eachother out