Our defenders are not the problem. I have seen this set keep clean sheets against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester, and multiple times against some of them.That should be the Manager's priority: to plug that sieve.
Some bravery is required - to replace the defenders who are not working any more. To continue with these players lacking in belief and self-confidence game after game is sheer stupidity.
That's one way to do it for sure.I have said this a number of times since Ronaldo joined and Cavani not getting any game time. Defending starts from the front and this is where we're struggling. There is absolutely no pressure on the opposition defence and they can play out at will who then outnumber our midfield.
Why is the manager sticking with Fred and McTominay when it clearly is not working in protecting the defence. They're hardly contributing to any attacks.
Replacing those defenders is only part of the problem - we as a team of 11 players have no earthly clue how to defend.That should be the Manager's priority: to plug that sieve.
Some bravery is required - to replace the defenders who are not working any more. To continue with these players lacking in belief and self-confidence game after game is sheer stupidity.
Agreed. Although their recent performances certainly are a part of the problem. Our defensive issues are clearly fundamentally systemic rather than individual.Our defenders are not the problem. I have seen this set keep clean sheets against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Leicester, and multiple times against some of them.
Because that's not a solution except against the top teams. Also, it's not that simple. In the period you're referring to, we were playing with pretty intense pressing from our forwards.That's one way to do it for sure.
But when Ole started out we didn't do it that way. We defended deep, we suckered teams on to us and we used the outball of Rashford's pace to win games. Just think back to our 1-0 against Spurs when DeGea made a miraculous number of saves.
If anything our defensive line is far too high. Our lines are far too far apart.
Why can't we do what we usually do at the Etihad? When we go to City we play such a composed, counterattacking game. We keep it tight. We defend with nous. We go back to front at speed.
We seem to be trying to play the high press, with a high line and its exposing us all over the park.
He is so naive I thought after conceding 6 against leicester and Atalanta he would have the foresight to pack the bus against Liverpool.That should be the Manager's priority: to plug that sieve.
Some bravery is required - to replace the defenders who are not working any more. To continue with these players lacking in belief and self-confidence game after game is sheer stupidity.
It would have been a solution against Leicester and Aston Villa, who pretty much laughed at our attempts to press.Because that's not a solution except against the top teams. Also, it's not that simple. In the period you're referring to, we were playing with pretty intense pressing from our forwards.
I think expectations changed. That was also a bit of an excuse due to a bad squad. Playing now like this wont bring titles. We may survive or get some points off top teams, but we aint winning trophies like that.That's one way to do it for sure.
But when Ole started out we didn't do it that way. We defended deep, we suckered teams on to us and we used the outball of Rashford's pace to win games. Just think back to our 1-0 against Spurs when DeGea made a miraculous number of saves.
If anything our defensive line is far too high. Our lines are far too far apart.
Why can't we do what we usually do at the Etihad? When we go to City we play such a composed, counterattacking game. We keep it tight. We defend with nous. We go back to front at speed.
We seem to be trying to play the high press, with a high line and its exposing us all over the park.
Neville said on Sky yesterday he was surprised to see Ole say how well the side played against Atalanta so he stuck with the same XI ignoring we went 0-2 down and that would be curtains against Liverpool.He is so naive I thought after conceding 6 against leicester and Atalanta he would have the foresight to pack the bus against Liverpool.
Start dropping underperformers. Cease this nonsense of trusting people to play themselves into formThat should be the Manager's priority: to plug that sieve.
Some bravery is required - to replace the defenders who are not working any more. To continue with these players lacking in belief and self-confidence game after game is sheer stupidity.
Not sure what Ronaldo has to do with the Shaw and Maguire valley of death.I have said this a number of times since Ronaldo joined and Cavani not getting any game time. Defending starts from the front and this is where we're struggling. There is absolutely no pressure on the opposition defence and they can play out at will who then outnumber our midfield.
Why is the manager sticking with Fred and McTominay when it clearly is not working in protecting the defence. They're hardly contributing to any attacks.
If we keep it tight, against most sides, we will have the individual quality to nick a goal. What we're doing now is leaving ourselves too big of a mountain to climb.I think expectations changed. That was also a bit of an excuse due to a bad squad. Playing now like this wont bring titles. We may survive or get some points off top teams, but we aint winning trophies like that.
But we cant implement a more progressive style without being completely open. Ole and the staff have no clue how to find the balance
We had one of the best defences prior to Ronaldo joining last season. This is not excusing the loss of form of Maguire and Shaw.Not sure what Ronaldo has to do with the Shaw and Maguire valley of death.
We had the worst defence of any team in the top four last season. That includes a Liverpool team missing their three best centre backs.We had one of the best defences prior to Ronaldo joining last season. This is not excusing the loss of form of Maguire and Shaw.
Yes we have defensive issues against everyone for sure, but we can't solve them by defending deep and relying on counterattacks because the majority of teams is going to play a similar approach against us, and to beat them we have to control the game and do something with the possession. They're not going to oblige us by throwing 6-8 players forward against our low block and leave exploitable room for counterattacks. At least not often enough for that to be a general basis for us to prevail.It would have been a solution against Leicester and Aston Villa, who pretty much laughed at our attempts to press.
Lets be honest what happened yesterday was humiliating but other teams have been going through us like a knife through butter. If Villareal had met DeGea in worse form they'd have smashed us too.
People are acting like we're only having defensive problems against top teams. We're having defensive issues against everyone. Our goals conceded column is a horrific.
We need to change approach to stop leaking goals or we won't have a season to salvage pretty soon.
Correlation does not mean causation.We had one of the best defences prior to Ronaldo joining last season. This is not excusing the loss of form of Maguire and Shaw.
Maguire and Rashford getting rushed back into the starting XI is a clear message to Baily, Sancho etc that Ole doesn't trust themIs it just possible that Harry isn't 100%?
I know he's not the fastest but we rushed him straight into the starting 11 in record time.
The problem imo is that it's not the defenders that are the problem but our defensive structure and that is down to coaching. Also people forget that defending is not just down to our back 4 but also the rest of the team. If an opposition FB pushes high up our wingers need to drop down, same goes in midfield. Keita yesterday made so many runs that none of our midfielders tracked and it created a numerical advantage again and again.That should be the Manager's priority: to plug that sieve.
Some bravery is required - to replace the defenders who are not working any more. To continue with these players lacking in belief and self-confidence game after game is sheer stupidity.
Telles and Dalot played against Villarreal (and Maguire didn’t) - we should have conceded 6. Fred and Mctominay didn’t play against Leicester and ditto. It isn’t a personnel issue - it’s a system issue. Players have no clue when to press and when to not - you can see them looking at each other before deciding whether to go or not meaning some go and some don’t with the gaps being huge between the lines.Start dropping underperformers. Cease this nonsense of trusting people to play themselves into form
The balance of the team has changed. We are neither a pressing team nor play on the counter.
I mean, the Roma away tie last year was also a game where we could very easily have shipped 6 or 7 goals, and Cavani played in that, so I’m at a bit of a loss as to why everyone’s decided Cavani for Ronaldo is the magic fix this week… We conceded 4 against Liverpool in this same fixture in May FFS! Cavani played in that too and Maguire didn’tI have said this a number of times since Ronaldo joined and Cavani not getting any game time. Defending starts from the front and this is where we're struggling. There is absolutely no pressure on the opposition defence and they can play out at will who then outnumber our midfield.
Can't argue with any of that.Defending starts from the front.
Defensive structure starts with the keeper, he's too meek has no control over his defence. He has no presence and is stuck to his line 90% of the time. Rashford's pass that Salah picked up in the box yesterday, he should have been on that before it got into the box. Him being so deep, drags the defence deep, so even when the forwars press and the midfield push up, he's still on his yard box, defence is 40 yards behind the midfield and it leave massive gaps in front on them ro play into.
Centre backs - again no leadership or communication here, they just seem to do what they want as individuals. Running into midfield because there's 40 yards of space in front of them to cover, running out to cover fullbacks that have disappeared for some reason. But they don't sort it out. It happens over and over again. They don't play as a pair and they don't demand of those around them or in front.
Fullbacks - brain dead both of them, they just disappear or get caught high and jog back like they are tipping down to get the paper. When they should be running like they are going to miss their bus.
Midfield 2 - They run around too much and don't hold their positions because the forwards press randomly so they are left trying to plug gaps all the time and cover spaces left and right that leaves the middle exposed.
Bruno - runs around and chases the ball for no reason. Nobody is backing him up most of the time. So he just leaves gaps exposed and causes problems for those behind him. First goal yesterday was a prime exmaple.
Forwards - just run as individuals. It's a run, not a sprint. A token effort to close down. Again because it's less than a half press, they are too easily bypassed and it exposes those behind them.
Basically the whole thing is a shit show from front to back and back to front.
Some 21 goals conceded in 13 matches. Leicester and Liverpool had combined 19 shots on target against us in 2 matches. 19!Came into this thread hoping for some stats. Alas, none.
Came into this thread hoping for some stats. Alas, none.
Some 21 goals conceded in 13 matches. Leicester and Liverpool had combined 19 shots on target against us in 2 matches. 19!
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On a slightly more positive note, we're tied for 4th in goals scored, 5th in xG and 8th in XPts. Not that it changes anything.Tweet
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Well said.Ole should have been out of a job last night, he's been teetering on the brink for a few weeks but last night was inexcusable, unforgivable and unrecoverable.
However for some reason, the players seemed to have, by comparison at least, got off quite lightly. Yes Maguire and that are being criticized, but no-where near to the same degree.
This is on Ole, I have no doubt. But from the players perspective, where is your personal and professional pride for feck sake? It was either at 4-0 or 5-0 and there was a shot of 5 of our players stood around one another, hands on hips, ignoring each other, and it encapsulates this team.
Don't give me any shit about Maguire, Bruno being leaders. Leaders pick up and galvanise their team when things are not going well, not just when it's all going rosy. I didn't see one molecule of fight from any of our players yesterday. Maybe that's dripped down from the manager, but show some passion, professionalism and pride for yourselves.
Wankers!
