Television Leaving Neverland....Harrowing Michael Jackson Documentary

[simonhch]

I just watched this two part (4 hour) documentary on HBO. I believe it is airing this week on Channel Four too. This was such a conflicted watch for me. I grew up a gigantic Michael Jackson fan, obsessive almost; and often chose not to believe the many disturbing allegations against him. I also had the [self inflicted] ignominy of being sexually abused as a child from ages 4-7. So my feelings about Michael Jackson have always been deeply divided, and often somewhat tortured.

Having watched these young men relive their experiences, sharing explicit details; and detail the impact the abuse had on them as adults, and how becoming parents themselves brought a cavalcade of emotions to the fore - was incredibly powerful. Aside from being incredibly brave to put themselves on the line like this, everything they said absolutely resonated with me, regarding their feelings about themselves, those around them, and their abuser.

In my heart of hearts I always knew Michael Jackson was a sexual predator and Paedophile, but seeing it laid so bare like this....I am absolutely sick at thought of this monster still receiving world wide adoration. I will never, ever play a Michael Jackson song again; and I hope he died a rotten, painful, lonely death.

Has anyone else seen this yet, and if so what did they think?

 

[Water Melon]

I guess there is a thread about this already.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

Watching right now. Maybe a third of the way through the first part and it’s starting to get extremely disturbing.

 

[spwd]

Going to watch it when it’s on ch4 or wherever.

 

[dumbo]

can't find this anywhere. Too early or different name perhaps?

Edit: my mistake search hadn't updated. Got it.

 

[Andy_Cole]

I wonder if MJ and R Kelly talked about their shared hobby.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

I guess there is a thread about this already.

Yeah the last thread was mainly me and @Classical Mechanic arguing with people who think he was innocent.

 

[kps88]

Yeah the last thread was mainly me and @Classical Mechanic arguing with people who think he was innocent.

Are you going to watch this documentary?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Are you going to watch this documentary?

Yeah it's on channel 4 soon I think so will catch it then.

 

[kps88]

Yeah it's on channel 4 soon I think so will catch it then.

Oh sorry I thought you were one of those who thinks he's innocent. I find it weird how his supporters can attack the documentary without ever planning on seeing it for themselves.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Oh sorry I thought you were one of those who thinks he's innocent. I find it weird how his supporters can attack the documentary without ever planning on seeing it for themselves.

No worries. I'm of the opinion that even the stuff that's admitted (sleepovers etc), is very wrong and I believe it's highly unlikely there wasn't more sinister acts involved also.

 

[Cassidy]

No worries. I'm of the opinion that even the stuff that's admitted (sleepovers etc), is very wrong and I believe it's highly unlikely there wasn't more sinister acts involved also.

I still have friends who defend this by saying he didn't have a childhood

 

[esmufc07]

I'll still listen to his music and enjoy it. If we start going down that road half the music from the 60s and 70s would disappear.

 

[Lay]

I’ve seen and read the two men’s stories being heavily discredited already but I haven’t yet seen the documentary.

 

[Samid]

I'll still listen to his music and enjoy it. If we start going down that road half the music from the 60s and 70s would disappear.

Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[dumbo]

Fascinating doc. Convincing accounts and establishes a pattern of abuse. Those interviewed look and sound as if their lives have been devastated.

It seems that with enough money, power and fame you can practically do whatever you want.

Macaulay Culkin eek.

 

[Lay]

https://thevioletreality.com/leavingneverland-isnt-a-documentary-it-s-a-work-of-fiction-a6ba55e1a01b

This article tries to counter the documentary. Worth a read.

 

[Spiersey]

Not watched it yet but been amused by the comments by his fans on Facebook. 'Why wait til hes dead' 'Money must have ran out for them' etc. Always find it incredible how blindly people will defend someone because they make good music/are good at football.

 

[lsd]

https://thevioletreality.com/leavingneverland-isnt-a-documentary-it-s-a-work-of-fiction-a6ba55e1a01b

This article tries to counter the documentary. Worth a read.

It really wasn't he may as well just written fake news every line .

 

[Valar Morghulis]

Fascinating doc. Convincing accounts and establishes a pattern of abuse. Those interviewed look and sound as if their lives have been devastated.

It seems that with enough money, power and fame you can practically do whatever you want.

Macaulay Culkin eek.

Well they've had enough time to perfect them now haven't they. Too bad neither story held up under cross-examination back when MJ was alive and able to defend himself.

 

[BluesJr]

Enjoying people’s art is completely different to how you view them as a person. The two don’t have to be connected.

 

[UncleBob]

It really wasn't he may as well just written fake news every line .

How come ?

It ties in quite well with this from Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevog...ow-about-the-new-michael-jackson-documentary/

 

[entropy]

This is the only article you need to read on the subject if you ask me

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is a decent read too, its been up two days so I'd guess the facts are correct as Jackson's estate will be taking down anything they can.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

 

[UncleBob]

This is a decent read too, its been up two days so I'd guess the facts are correct as Jackson's estate will be taking down anything they can.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

Why would you guess instead of simply checking it out via google ?

 

[Paxi]

I'll still listen to his music and enjoy it. If we start going down that road half the music from the 60s and 70s would disappear.

If that's the case then so be it. Personally, I like to relate to an artist at least on some level. If I realise the guy was a raving peado, then that become quite difficult.

Though, with Jackson, I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt since there are a lot of credible accounts who state that he was no a paedophile.

 

[esmufc07]

If that's the case then so be it. Personally, I like to relate to an artist at least on some level. If I realise the guy was a raving peado, then that become quite difficult.

Though, with Jackson, I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt since there are a lot of credible accounts who state that he was no a paedophile.

I still enjoy a couple of Gary Glitter's songs!

 

[Paxi]

Slightly off topic, but you cannot deny that the man was a fecking weirdo of the highest order.

 

[Paxi]

I still enjoy a couple of Gary Glitter's songs!

I knew someome would say that.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Why would you guess instead of simply checking it out via google ?

There's a whole abundance of misinformation and disinformation online about the whole affair and some of the points in that article, so its hard to know the 'truth'. Jackson's estate wouldn't let any such grave falsehoods appear in a world renowned publication for long.

 

[Cassidy]

This is a decent read too, its been up two days so I'd guess the facts are correct as Jackson's estate will be taking down anything they can.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-the-michael-jackson-sexual-abuse-allegations

Some of those things listed are not 100% correct specifically the drawing by Jordie Chandler matching I'm sure that has been disputed. What is true though is that there is far too much smoke

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Some of those things listed are not 100% correct specifically the drawing by Jordie Chandler matching I'm sure that has been disputed. What is true though is that there is far too much smoke

Disputed by who exactly? As I said, if it is false information (I'm not sure if it is or not), Jackson's estate won't let it stay up in a world renowned publication for long. I trust in the actions of highly paid lawyers trying to protect a massive asset rather than some Reddit posters.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

https://thevioletreality.com/leavingneverland-isnt-a-documentary-it-s-a-work-of-fiction-a6ba55e1a01b

This article tries to counter the documentary. Worth a read.

There's some interesting facts in there, but it's so biased it's hard to take seriously. Just one example paragraph:

Still, “extorting Michael Jackson for millions of dollars” isn’t exactly a new business model attempt. Let’s not forget that attempts were made during his life, and they only served to expose the accusers as liars with fictional stories back then. It would hardly be a stretch to imagine that those extortionists probably wished they didn’t have to deal with the inconvenient fact that Michael was alive and able to successfully defend himself.

 

[shamans]

The reason MJ always got the benefit of doubt from me wasn't because I was a fan. It's his situation growing up. If you look at it, he had no childhood and was abused by his own father. The idea that he is just super interested in kids/the idea of childhood does make sense. He himself was forever a child that never grew old.

Not to mention his own wife/girlfriends seemed to always suggest he was innocent. Anyway, I haven't seen the documentary and obviously no one can know for sure. I would like to believe he's innocent and a harmless weirdo.

 

[Cassidy]

The reason MJ always got the benefit of doubt from me wasn't because I was a fan. It's his situation growing up. If you look at it, he had no childhood and was abused by his own father. The idea that he is just super interested in kids/the idea of childhood does make sense. He himself was forever a child that never grew old.

Not to mention his own wife/girlfriends seemed to always suggest he was innocent. Anyway, I haven't seen the documentary and obviously no one can know for sure. I would like to believe he's innocent and a harmless weirdo.

It actually doesn't. In fact it describes a mental state which is disturbing. Many people who have gone down for some crime as such have been found to have had issues in their childhood so I don't see how that can be used to say he is harmless

Not that I am saying that would make him do that, but it seems counter intuitive to me to suggest thats a reason not to suspect him.

 

[shamans]

It actually doesn't. In fact it describes a mental state which is disturbing. Many people who have gone down for some crime as such have been found to have had issues in their childhood so I don't see how that can be used to say he is harmless

Not that I am saying that would make him do that, but it seems counter intuitive to me to suggest thats a reason not to suspect him.

No what I'm saying that's a reason to think he may have slept with kids without doing anything wrong. It also may explain his "weird" behavior. For every 1 criminal there are many more with same mental issues who never actually commit the crime but make you go "that guys one to go on a murder spree if there ever is one".

Point is it isn't fair to say he's weird therefore must've done it. He could also just be weird because.

 

[duffer]

I really hate the "he had a mess up childhood" defence. Didn't almost every shitbag ever have a messed up childhood?

 

[Cassidy]

No what I'm saying that's a reason to think he may have slept with kids without doing anything wrong. It also may explain his "weird" behavior. For every 1 criminal there are many more with same mental issues who never actually commit the crime but make you go "that guys one to go on a murder spree if there ever is one".

Point is it isn't fair to say he's weird therefore must've done it. He could also just be weird because.

If you can reference more people who liked sleeping in beds with other specifically boys and has nudes pictures of boys along with pornographic material and didn’t end up being an abuser I would agree with you.

Liking children mainly as an adult and doing the above are two different things

 

[UncleBob]

If you can reference more people who liked sleeping in beds with other specifically boys and has nudes pictures of boys along with pornographic material and didn’t end up being an abuser I would agree with you.

Liking children mainly as an adult and doing the above are two different things

?

 

[UncleBob]

There's a whole abundance of misinformation and disinformation online about the whole affair and some of the points in that article, so its hard to know the 'truth'. Jackson's estate wouldn't let any such grave falsehoods appear in a world renowned publication for long.

You're basically running a "They haven't been sued, so it must be true", it's not that simple. They'll be happy to deny everything, but involving legal action is a no no unless it's gross as feck, it's all pros and cons