Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion

[horsechoker]

They've been overly praised and I think most posters just want them to be criticised rightly for being defensively naive.

Any other team does what they do and they'll be picked apart by pundits. Even City and Liverpool in recent years who have been the best 2 teams will get properly criticised when they get beaten badly,

Sure they're an interesting watch, but call a spade a spade.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

They've just come up from the championship and are 10 points clear of safety... Are they meant to be in the european places or something?

Where do you expect a newly promoted side playing mostly championship players to be positioned?

My post was clear. I expect any manager to play a style that suits the players you have.

Leeds stats are poor. They are bleeding goals, and are near the bottom in the PL statistics for goals conceded due to errors. They highlighted this during todays loss on the sky sports coverage.

I have coached youth football and I did not try and get my boys playing above their level. Bielsa thinks he's got a prime Argentina.. he really hasn't

 

[Dominos]

My post was clear. I expect any manager to play a style that suits the players you have.

Leeds stats are poor. They are bleeding goals, and are near the bottom in the PL statistics for goals conceded due to errors. They highlighted this during todays loss on the sky sports coverage.

I have coached youth football and I did try and get my boys playing above their level. Bielsa thinks he's got a prime Argentina.. he really hasn't

Are you saying this team that has just come from the championship should be significantly more than 11 points clear of safety, if they were properly managed?

 

[nuanced]

Leeds are absolutely shit. They play an attacking style of football but are shite at the back and have zero defensive cover in midfield. How anyone can praise the manager and this team is beyond me.

Any other club and they'd be slated. It's like Bielsa is this genius, which he's proven before hand, I get that! But they absolutely need to be more pragmatic

I might put that down on them missing their two international center backs and their one man midfield of Phillips. Saying that, they had a poor game today.

Leeds stats are poor. They are bleeding goals, and are near the bottom in the PL statistics for goals conceded due to errors. They highlighted this during todays loss on the sky sports coverage.

Defending 1-1 is a weakness for them, and you're right that they shouldn't be doing that having a championship level defense. But is having a solid defense worth the reduction in chance creation for them? Their stats are better than teams like Newcastle and CP: https://footystats.org/clubs/leeds-united-fc-222 . I'd say that is a good showing for a team which is having it's first top flight season after a decade and a half in the wilderness.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

Are you saying this team that has just come from the championship should be significantly more than 11 points clear of safety, if they were properly managed?

Yeah maybe. Seeing them pushing players forward when they are 3-0 down at half time. Even still at 6-2 down shows Bielsa is naive.

If they showed a more sensible style they would definitely be higher in the table.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

My post was clear. I expect any manager to play a style that suits the players you have.

Leeds stats are poor. They are bleeding goals, and are near the bottom in the PL statistics for goals conceded due to errors. They highlighted this during todays loss on the sky sports coverage.

I have coached youth football and I did not try and get my boys playing above their level. Bielsa thinks he's got a prime Argentina.. he really hasn't

This set of players would be in the position of West Brom if they played “a style that suits them” (i.e. shit on a stick football). It’s a Championship squad that has overachieved precisely because of the style of play implemented by the manager.

 

[Cascarino]

This set of players would be in the position of West Brom if they played “a style that suits them” (i.e. shit on a stick football). It’s a Championship squad that has overachieved precisely because of the style of play implemented by the manager.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m not sure why Leeds has been judged by a completely different standard to any other newly promoted team. They’re comfortable mid table and playing entertaining football, it’s so weird to see people criticising their approach because it doesn’t fit in with their narrow mindset of how a promoted team should approach the game.

 

[Cheimoon]

Yeah maybe. Seeing them pushing players forward when they are 3-0 down at half time. Even still at 6-2 down shows Bielsa is naive.

If they showed a more sensible style they would definitely be higher in the table.

That's a ridiculous example. What would they have achieved by shoring up their defence at 3-0 down? (Apart from getting fewer goals against.)

 

[Renegade]

Yeah maybe. Seeing them pushing players forward when they are 3-0 down at half time. Even still at 6-2 down shows Bielsa is naive.

If they showed a more sensible style they would definitely be higher in the table.

Nonsense. Being more defensive doesn’t mean you won’t still lose games or get thrashed. The quality of their defenders are championship level.

 

[FootballHQ]

They good again then, I lose track with this thread.

Shows the perils of judging another team solely on one 90 minutes and that imo was a little bit freaky given that day Man. United were 2-0 up in a home game after 3 minutes which dosen't happen too often nowadays.

 

[kidbob]

They good again then, I lose track with this thread.

Shows the perils of judging another team solely on one 90 minutes and that imo was a little bit freaky given that day Man. United were 2-0 up in a home game after 3 minutes which dosen't happen too often nowadays.

They've always been good. To do what their doing and be in the league position they are with the players they have is an incredible achievement. Who gives a shit if they lose badly sometimes when they are comfortably outperforming every other promoted side and are a pain in the ass to play against even when they lose to teams for the most part. Even against us they created loads of chances and realistically they should have beaten Arsenal by 3-4 goals but for poor finishing. They could lose very game from here on out and still add more value to the league than shit like Burnley.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I don't think I have ever seen a team with so little talent play the way they do and execute plays they do.

 

[city-puma]

They good again then, I lose track with this thread.

Shows the perils of judging another team solely on one 90 minutes and that imo was a little bit freaky given that day Man. United were 2-0 up in a home game after 3 minutes which dosen't happen too often nowadays.

Mendi unable to move back in time for Leeds’ second goal, but you have to give Leeds a lot of credit because they created that moment of scenario Leicester left huge space in their lower third for Raphinha to produce a wonderful one touch assist for Bamford.
I especially like Leeds players’ attitude and work ethics. They just go for everything. When any is down or lose a challenge, just gets up and fight for the second ball, third ball, even fourth ball.

 

[tomaldinho1]

They good again then, I lose track with this thread.

Shows the perils of judging another team solely on one 90 minutes and that imo was a little bit freaky given that day Man. United were 2-0 up in a home game after 3 minutes which dosen't happen too often nowadays.

Always been good. Some posters are just weird and seem to think if they’re not pushing for top 6 they’re crap - if they finish top ten it’ll be unbelievable achievement, same for a club like Soton. Realistically just not being close to the relegation scrap will be a solid season.

 

[FootballHQ]

They've always been good. To do what their doing and be in the league position they are with the players they have is an incredible achievement. Who gives a shit if they lose badly sometimes when they are comfortably outperforming every other promoted side and are a pain in the ass to play against even when they lose to teams for the most part. Even against us they created loads of chances and realistically they should have beaten Arsenal by 3-4 goals but for poor finishing. They could lose very game from here on out and still add more value to the league than shit like Burnley.

I agree but go back a few pages after the 6-2 and it was mostly Bielsa is clueless and his style is useless etc.

Edit: Even at top of this page with what Suvernmanc was posting.

They're having a pretty good season but I never thought they'd be in any danger of relegation compared to West Brom or Fulham and so it's proved. Chance to push for top half now with the win today.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I agree but go back a few pages after the 6-2 and it was mostly Bielsa is clueless and his style is useless etc.

They're having a pretty good season but I never thought they'd be in any danger of relegation compared to West Brom or Fulham and so it's proved. Chance to push for top half now with the win today.

Majority are posters who feel any praise for any other manager is somehow anti-Ole and get their backs up - look at the state of the Poch thread. Bielsa, Hasenhuttl, Potter, Rodgers, Lampard, Arteta all have had praise mostly because of how they are trying to get their teams to play or getting a team functioning above the sum of their parts. Lampard got a lot but then his family works for Sky as pundits so I don't get why people got so riled up. There are posters who will actively go to the respective threads after a rival manager loses purely to write something along the lines of: 'Amazing to see how the best coach in the world lost this game' or 'Ole can learn so much from [insert manager name here]'

If you can pick up enough points AND play good football, why on earth would anyone complain?

 

[RashyForPM]

Majority are posters who feel any praise for any other manager is somehow anti-Ole and get their backs up - look at the state of the Poch thread. Bielsa, Hasenhuttl, Potter, Rodgers, Lampard, Arteta all have had praise mostly because of how they are trying to get their teams to play or getting a team functioning above the sum of their parts. Lampard got a lot but then his family works for Sky as pundits so I don't get why people got so riled up. There are posters who will actively go to the respective threads after a rival manager loses purely to write something along the lines of: 'Amazing to see how the best coach in the world lost this game' or 'Ole can learn so much from [insert manager name here]'

If you can pick up enough points AND play good football, why on earth would anyone complain?

Just made this exact point in the Poch thread before coming in here. Just two groups of people having a dick measuring competition as I said there. So irritating.

 

[freeurmind]

Feck Leeds, Bielsa and anyone associated with that shower of shite.

 

[nuanced]

There are posters who will actively go to the respective threads after a rival manager loses purely to write something along the lines of: 'Amazing to see how the best coach in the world lost this game' or 'Ole can learn so much from [insert manager name here]'

Off topic, but that's the worst brands of posters. A freak result and they go around bumping threads trying to rouse the rabble.

 

[Cheimoon]

Off topic, but that's the worst brands of posters. A freak result and they go around bumping threads trying to rouse the rabble.

As an outsider, that's one reason to want United to do well (before this is misconstrued: not that I'd want them to do poorly otherwise): at least there can be reasonable discussions in threads on other managers if Ole isn't under fire.

Anyway, back to Leeds. How are they financially? Would they be in a position to strengthen over the summer without losing their best players?

 

[Marching]

Feck Leeds, Bielsa and anyone associated with that shower of shite.

 

[nuanced]

Anyway, back to Leeds. How are they financially? Would they be in a position to strengthen over the summer without losing their best players?

Their owner sold some stake to SF 49ers last week, bringing them to 37% ownership: https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/radrizzani-paraag-49ers-leeds-united-19720986
Leeds fans can back this up, but I never got the impression their owner had a big transfer bounty to splurge. He and their sporting director have been smart with their transfers recently, I think. Though him selling some stake tells me they're short of money (and possibly looking for an exit?). I suppose being a PL club gives them access to a transfer kitty of at least £50 million, so they could buy 3-4 upcoming players without selling.

IMO Leeds PL future and incoming transfers hang heavily on the coach they get after Bielsa. His contract expires this summer and him leaving would be a blow given the team quality and the thin squad depth.

 

[FizzyWomack]

Good win for them today, but lets not get too giddy, they have been found out many times this season and rightfully so, the manager has them playing above their means most of the time.

The day Bielsa leaves them will be a day to behold, and then we can watch these utter feck wits slip back down the table and back into the championship where they belong.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

We're nailed on to win the run around a lot cup:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

No wonder Klich constantly looks angry and knackered. We really could do with another midfielder.

 

[Dominos]

Yeah maybe. Seeing them pushing players forward when they are 3-0 down at half time. Even still at 6-2 down shows Bielsa is naive.

If they showed a more sensible style they would definitely be higher in the table.

It's not as simple as get in a more sensible manager and they'll have all the best qualities they have now but without the weaknesses. Under a different manager they are simply not going to be maintain the same quality in their pressing, passing, and attacking cohesion as they do under Bielsa. They might improve their defensive record but everything good about them currently will suffer.

They are now 17 points clear of safety. What percentage of the other 19 premier league managers would have them more than 17 points clear of safety out of interest?

 

[Walrus]

They remind me of Leicester a few seasons ago (around when they won the league). Some quality in the squad, but definitely playing as more than the sum of their parts. They looked really good tonight.

 

[kidbob]

They are fantastic considering half the squad are nobodies who would be playing in the Championship if not for Biesla. They have come up and made a joke of the other promoted teams while playing their own style i every single game, regardless of opponents. They are 4 points off Chelsea in 5th if they win their game in hand. To put that into perspective if they win their game in hand then they are closer to Chelsea than Chelsea are to us with more than half the season played. The best thing about Biesla's football is that they will lose bad at times but they are more likely to beat a 'big' team than other teams of the same level are and they will generally beat all the other teams who are meant to be on their level. 10th half a season in without any huge investment is one of the best achievements I can think of in a long time. For a newly promoted team to be thinking of how high they can finish and not worrying about relegation, all while playing great football, is a huge achievement.

 

[Cloud7]

If I was a fan of a smaller team I would much rather a manager like Bielsa playing exciting football, with some losses along the way, rather than one of the generic "steady" managers floating around who, while you might not have as many of the big defeats, you won't have anywhere near the level of joy and excitement.

 

[Bastian]

Seems a lot of people - not just here - cannot wait to have a dig at Bielsa and do so at every opportunity, but they are 10th 17 points above the relegation places. This is not a collection of top players, but they work enormously hard and all credit goes to Bielsa. A master.

Would be nice to see them add 3-4 quality additions in the summer and manage to rotate a bit to try to avoid those periods where they are knackered.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The fact Bamford has 12 in 22 is testament enough for me to know he must be doing something right.

 

[FootballHQ]

Nothing to see here.

Looking good to get 50 + points now and they'll have a say in who finishes from 2nd-4th as they play Man. United, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Villa all at home in the run in.

No one in August I bet on here thought thr squad they had was capable of getting in 55-60 points range and that's still a small possibility.

 

[SambaBoy]

Do people think this is a more sustained run of form/season or will they go back to the equivalent of a promoted team next season? Sheff Utd were in contention for a CL spot last season, and it led some to believe Wilder was an absolute genius and their football was breath-taking but this year they are struggling massively. It happens quite a lot with newly promoted teams, some massively overachieve and finish in the top half before crashing back down to earth and getting relegated the following season.

 

[RashyForPM]

We're nailed on to win the run around a lot cup:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

No wonder Klich constantly looks angry and knackered. We really could do with another midfielder.

This is precisely why they’re doing well, coupled with them having more than 50% possession in every match bar one this season (Leicester away). They play the most modern brand of football possible; possession and high-pressing.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Nothing to see here.

Looking good to get 50 + points now and they'll have a say in who finishes from 2nd-4th as they play Man. United, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and Villa all at home in the run in.

No one in August I bet on here thought thr squad they had was capable of getting in 55-60 points range and that's still a small possibility.

Well I thought they'd finish around 7th-8th. Bielsa's system can make any player look good. His problem are big teams with big egos.

 

[Xaviesta]

Do people think this is a more sustained run of form/season or will they go back to the equivalent of a promoted team next season? Sheff Utd were in contention for a CL spot last season, and it led some to believe Wilder was an absolute genius and their football was breath-taking but this year they are struggling massively. It happens quite a lot with newly promoted teams, some massively overachieve and finish in the top half before crashing back down to earth and getting relegated the following season.

The thing with Sheffield United is that while they were brilliant last season they only scored 39 goals. Leeds have scored 38 goals after 23 games. Leeds big advantage will be that they'll probably score enough goals to win enough games in order to stay up.

Europa League qualification may do them more than good. Playing 2-3 games a week is more likely to bring about the burnout factor which is so often linked with Bielsa and his teams.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

It's not as simple as get in a more sensible manager and they'll have all the best qualities they have now but without the weaknesses. Under a different manager they are simply not going to be maintain the same quality in their pressing, passing, and attacking cohesion as they do under Bielsa. They might improve their defensive record but everything good about them currently will suffer.

They are now 17 points clear of safety. What percentage of the other 19 premier league managers would have them more than 17 points clear of safety out of interest?

Not sure If I'm honest. There is an argument to be had that liverpool would be higher this season if klopp had a plan B and a more pragmatic approach when the situation calls for it. They have an injury crisis they are still trying to play the same way. That makes no sense to me.

Bielsa is a very experienced manager and in my opinion he absolutely getting some average players to play above their actually level, that being said they have some very good players in the team, they are doing well and the table shows it.

I do however believe that they would be harder to beat of they had a more sensible approach to some games.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I wish other teams lower down the table (or promoted teams) look at this and aim to attack the league and try finish high as possible. As opposed to hiring someone like Steve Bruce and trying to nick 1-0 victories so they can stay up by the skin of their teeth.

 

[Samid]

I wish other teams lower down the table (or promoted teams) look at this and aim to attack the league and try finish high as possible. As opposed to hiring someone like Steve Bruce and trying to nick 1-0 victories so they can stay up by the skin of their teeth.

You've got the likes of Saints and Brighton. Realistically those are the teams other similar teams should look at. Copying Leeds directly is asking for trouble. Leeds had been doing this for a couple of years before they came up. Their fitness and cohesiveness was top notch going into this season. Any bottom half team (from the Bruce/Allardyce school of management) trying to emulate Leeds overnight would get riddled with injuries, have their asses handed to them and get relegated before their work comes to fruition.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

You've got the likes of Saints and Brighton. Realistically those are the teams other similar teams should look at. Copying Leeds directly is asking for trouble. Leeds had been doing this for a couple of years before they came up. Their fitness and cohesiveness was top notch going into this season. Any bottom half team (from the Bruce/Allardyce school of management) trying to emulate Leeds overnight would get riddled with injuries, have their asses handed to them and get relegated before their work comes to fruition.

Sorry I didn't mean literally copy that Leeds style of play. I meant I would like those teams to try and play for a win rather than play to defend and pray to steal a goal last minute. Even doing this will take time but hopefully in the future we have teams (like Soton and Brighton are doing now) playing to win.

 

[Idxomer]

Give some respect to the man.

Never stopped going for the win with a player down.