Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion

[Samid]

Don't have enough likes yet to quote a post with a tweet in it, but I spy our badge and name in one of the pics posted by Damien. Why on earth would they need info on us?

We played Derby. He has analysed Derby to death.

 

[el3mel]

Alternate universe;

- Chelsea win the league
- City Lose the CL final
- Leeds lose the playoff final
- We appoint Biesla

The guy hasn’t done anything wrong. He’s done everything that I’d want United to do.

There's a reason or 2 his career ended at championship. He's a genius but he's a madman.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He needs to watch that Chris Rock video on how to act when a cop stops you.

 

[FC Ronaldo]

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[Moriarty]

It’s mental, isn’t it? Surely he’s just doing what you’d expect every decent manager to do? This is a multi million dollar business. Not doing this sort of research would be borderline negligent!

I guess what’s unusual is him proactively telling them all this stuff. Usually the journos are fobbed off with generic nonsense because they ask generic nonsensical questions.

Back in the day, before video cameras became commonplace, the manager would always scout upcoming opposition. Don Revie was famous for this and he kept dossiers on opposition players. This was thought to be innovative at the time but Revie was probably not the first to do it.

 

[Kostur]

Albeit unnecessary I like his honesty and how straightforward he is with it all, he's batshit crazy but in a positive way for me.

 

[Red Rom]

We played Derby. He has analysed Derby to death.

Ahhh that makes total sense. I think I tried to forget about that game honestly, slipped my mind we played them this year.

 

[red4ever 79]

Albeit unnecessary I like his honesty and how straightforward he is with it all, he's batshit crazy but in a positive way for me.

Fully agree. I like someone who is honest up front and no bs. Breath of fresh air

 

[Keeps It tidy]

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[JulesWinnfield]

It’s mental, isn’t it? Surely he’s just doing what you’d expect every decent manager to do? This is a multi million dollar business. Not doing this sort of research would be borderline negligent!

I guess what’s unusual is him proactively telling them all this stuff. Usually the journos are fobbed off with generic nonsense because they ask generic nonsensical questions.

Honestly its like people think its the 1970's or something and every other clubs preparation is steak and chips before the match. Virtually every club in the top few division has their own in-house analyst teams these days, and virtually all invest in football stats software which is where basically everything he showed. Most the stuff he showed would have taken one of his analysts seconds to find out.

Yet because its Bielsa people are pretending its a sign of his mad genius as if he's sitting at home calculating all the minutes played by individuals with pen and paper.

 

[Cloud7]

Still trying to work out this twister.

Think he’s trying to say just because something isn’t illegal doesn’t mean it’s not morally wrong. His translator really botched that one up

 

[Tomuś]

Either that or they’re justifying the genocide because the victims are Muslims

You do know there are 50 notable countries AT PRESENT where the oppression of Christians ranges from high to extreme severity? Yet nobody talks about it. With that in mind I'd wager it really isn't 'justified cause the victims are Muslims' but what do I know.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

You do know there are 50 notable countries AT PRESENT where the oppression of Christians ranges from high to extreme severity? Yet nobody talks about it. With that in mind I'd wager it really isn't 'justified cause the victims are Muslims' but what do I know.

Bielsa's getting a hard time yes, but he's hardly persecuted

 

[Keeps It tidy]

You do know there are 50 notable countries AT PRESENT where the oppression of Christians ranges from high to extreme severity? Yet nobody talks about it. With that in mind I'd wager it really isn't 'justified cause the victims are Muslims' but what do I know.

What in the Hell?? How did this thread end up here?

 

[ivaldo]

He ended his 70 minute impromptu press conference with "I repeat: Why do I do it? Because I think I’m stupid.I thank you for your patience."

Brilliant

 

[Nick7]

You do know there are 50 notable countries AT PRESENT where the oppression of Christians ranges from high to extreme severity? Yet nobody talks about it. With that in mind I'd wager it really isn't 'justified cause the victims are Muslims' but what do I know.

Calm down.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Onca again with all this other research he does on opponents why does he also send spies? All of the other stuff would probably be a lot more effective.

Guess you can never be too thorough

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

You do know there are 50 notable countries AT PRESENT where the oppression of Christians ranges from high to extreme severity? Yet nobody talks about it. With that in mind I'd wager it really isn't 'justified cause the victims are Muslims' but what do I know.

Fcuk Christian’s people named Christian. Not the religion. Those people are ok.

 

[fishfingers15]

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It is cheating by ethics and not by rulebook. I agree my argument is pedantic

Fcuk Christian’s people named Christian. Not the religion. Those people are ok.

I know some really good Christians so feck off with that shit people who are named Christian

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It is cheating by ethics and not by rulebook. I agree my argument is pedantic



I know some really good Christians so feck off with that shit people who are named Christian

Mwah x

 

[Judas]

Anyone wanting him at Utd is off their head. Entertaining to watch on and off the pitch, but it would be a absolute disaster, aren’t we all sick of those by now?

 

[Chairman Steve]

Bielsa has essentially demonstrated how he carries out opposition scouting and analysis work, by showing how he probably knows more about Derby County than Derby County themselves do.

Also I like how he used Derby as his example... could have used anyone but used Derby. I get the feeling he did that as a middle finger to Lampard and Derby.

 

[RedSky]

i half checked the corner of document for his name.

Yeah, I was thinking if RS was a manager that is what he'd do

I'd totally be doing that shit yeah. Although obviously far more indepth.

 

[RedDevil@84]

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Show is over lads

And the first question tomorrow will regarding the spying matter. That will be classic media

 

[Irrational.]

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What a nutter

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Considering Derby are playing Southampton tonight, i wonder if Ralph Hassenhuttl was watching this

 

[Kasper]

A story about Pep

I’m going to tell you a story. When I was Bilbao coach, we played the final against Barcelona, who won 3-0. They were generous with us because after the third goal they stopped playing. I was very sad to lose this game. When the game finished I sent to Guardiola, this analysis as a gift expressing my admiration for him. He told me ‘you know more about Barcelona than me.’

But it was useless because they scored three goals against us.

I do this to feel well, I see that this information does not allow you to win games.

Half of the goals we conceded are from set pieces. if the spying was effective, we would have found a solution on this subject. But it was not useful at all for us.

Here we have the analysis for all teams [points to rows of folders]. This is this season, this for last season. This is for the friendlies. We went to watch the opponent.

What I want to tell you is that I want to be judged for my intentions. I don’t need th information I gather. In my eyes, I feel I am innocent. I don’t feel I’m trying to get a moral advantage. I feel I have done something not forbidden.

I dont have bad intentions. Is this right? No, I don’t say that. But we have to analyse the behavours, taking into account the intentions of the person behaving this way.

He's hilarious

 

[The Taurean]

He's hilarious

Hilarious wouldn't be the word to use.

 

[adexkola]

Any regulations against bugging the opponent's dugout in football?

(Shoutout to Belichick)

 

[GazTheLegend]

He's brilliant.

Honestly. This is the sort of shit that all football managers should be doing.

IDK if anyone remembers but there was a behind the scenes moment at our club where someone asks Ryan Giggs whether Wilson is "any good in the hole". It was pretty cringe inducing because most Redcafe members apparently knew more about our club than our staff. Most managers don't even know what positions their OWN reserves and youth players play, let alone what anyone else does.

Edit: FOUND IT. Says everything about how our club was run
And as to the 'spying' thing, genuinely don't care, it's a club security issue. I would be shocked if, with all the money there is in football, there wasn't more of it.

 

[VorZakone]

Dude is hilarious to be honest.

 

[Bubz27]

 

[He'lmurderyah15]

Replying to that Michael Cox tweet that someone posted earlier in the thread...
If you're caught cheating in an exam, you're punished. You're punished because it's against the rules. If you're caught spying, you're not punished. You're not punished because it's not against the rules. It's a Fairly stupid comparison

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Good for him, I like the nutjob. Leeds, I dont like BUT being from Wales, I dont have the seething hatred of them that actual Mancs do. Also, I respect that they're one of the real big clubs and would much rather them in the PL than Burnley, Stoke, Cardiff, Hudds etc. At least they'd bring some proper rivalry. Also, it's been funny laughing at their suffering and they've suffered for a very long time, long enough for us to give them a break for 1-2 seasons and send them back!

 

[Anustart89]

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Except they're not cheating, because it's not against the rules to spy. If they'd wanted people to not spy they should've put it in the rules.

If you don't have a rule about handball being illegal then people are going to handle the ball.

The best thing about this is that Lampard was crying to the media about the spying, and the only thing he brought upon himself was a press conference where an analysis of his team was broadcast to the world

 

[Ish]

 

[Anustart89]

Comprehensive write-up on the press conference, courtesy of /u/TheScarletPimpernel on reddit

"I with the goal of gaining a sports advantage and damaging the fair play. I already said I was responsible for this situation. The person who did it followed my orders and I am the only responsible one. My behaviour has been debated and many people have made an opinion. Many have condemned the act of behaviour. They've said it was immoral and violated the fair play and cheating. The club thought it was obliged public excuses to Derby County. I was publicly told that my behaviour was not respecting the principles and integrity that are the basis of the club."

"Many managers and ex-footballers said my behaviour was not respectful. The league after a complaint my by Derby County decided to open an investigation over my behaviour so they will evaluate if I behaved bad. One point I would like to talk about is that I am going to make it easy for the investigation of the league. I will give them what they need. I assume the fact that my behaviour is observed. I observed all the rivals and we watched all the training sessions of the opponents before we played against them. My goal is to make the investigation easier."

"I don't want to compare my behaviour with the past. I've heard that there are other behaviours that effect the fair play but I absolutely do not want to defend myself by attacking others. I don't want to point to any other situation that is not linked to my responsibility. Regarding what I have done, what I have done is not illegal. It's not specified and it's not restrained. We can discuss about it. It's not seen as a good thing but it is not a violation of the law. I know that not everything is legal is right to do. Because you have many things that are legal but they're not right. All the wrong things that you do are not done with bad intentions."

"I am going to try and explain that I didn't have bad intentions or get a sporting advantage. I did it because it was not illegal or violating a specific law.

Of course I have a point of view but it does not mean mine is right. As Lampard said he doesn't believe I didn't have bad intentions. He believes that I violated the fair play spirit. So I have to adapt to the rules that are linked to the habits of English football. Nobody ignores that all professional members of football want to work in British football. We have some conclusions. We have some analysis that the Championship is the sixth biggest competition in the world."

"We have to respect the procedures. I regret the point that I am going to make now because I don't like to talk about me. In my job I am overexposed and I don't like being in the media too much but I think it is important to make this explanation. When you look at the opponent you are looking for specific information. You want to know the starting XI and the strategic set-up and their set-pieces. Those are three key things head coaches analyse. When you watch a training session from an opponent you get this information a day before a game. Obviously it's not information that can allow you to build a project to neutralise the opponent during a game.

I'm not trying to justify my behaviour whatsoever. We cannot justify it as Lampard said. He does not accept the explanation I gave. "

"All the information I need to clarify the game against an opponent I gather it without having the necessity without having to watch the training session of the opponent. So why did I do it? It's just because I thought I wasn't violating a normal thing. As I reach my conclusion. I gather information that I can obtain in another manner. I would like to explain how the brain of a head coach works.

Apart from the players in the staff you have around 20 people. These 20 people create a volume of information. It's absolutely not necessary. It doesn't define the path of the competition. So why do we do that? Because we feel guilty if we don't work enough. It allows us to not have anxiety. In a few words I am going to tell you something that is not easy to explain. How we analyse each opponent without having to go and watch the training session."

"360 hours has gone into this..."

He is showing Derby County's results from this season now. He's got up from his chair and is explaining how colours on the fixture list show positive or negative cycles.

"Of each opponent we watched all the games of 2018/19 - we watched the 51 games of Derby County. The analysis of each game takes four hours of work - why did we do that? Because we think it is professional behaviour."

He asked someone in the room to pick a game... 19 is chosen. Bielsa is now breaking down the tactical breakdown of Chelsea vs Derby - he is showing analysis of the shape of the starting 11 for Derby and how it changed throughout the fixture.

Manchester United fixture chosen this time... more breakdown of how many chances Derby had to score and which team dominated the fixture at different points. He's going into great detail about how Leeds approach each fixture.

"I might not be able to speak English but I can speak about the 24 teams of the Championship." - Manchester United vs Derby County being shown on the screen. Bielsa going into detail at how they analyse the positions of each player during games and how it compares to previous fixtures.

Bielsa now showing a spreadsheet. It has full stats of each player from Derby County and whether they have missed any games, goals scored etc.

"I feel ashamed to have to have shown you all this."

He has a table on the screen which dissects how many games and how often Derby change systems throughout the season

"They've played 4-3-3 49.9% of the season... we use this to understand the system and why and when they change the system during a game."

He's now explaining what structures Derby County have faced and what is the most difficult formation for them to face. He does this for every team he says.

"If you ask me what is the most difficult formation for them to face I don't have that information in my head but this document gives me the answer. How do we gather all of this information? We analyse 51 games."

"Why have I done this? I want to show to everyone how we analyse teams."

Bielsa asks for another number... 27 is mentioned this time. It's Bristol City vs Derby. He's now breaking down the chances for both teams and how they dominated each part of the game.

Bielsa now has two videos on the screen... both of a Harry Wilson corner from two separate games.

"When he puts his two hands up we can see what they do... we have evidence to show this."

He's showing all of the attacking play from Derby vs Bristol City.

"There is nearly 40 minutes of it... when you see that you see what is the path for the opponent to attack. If you do the same thing about chances conceded by Derby you can see the defensive weaknesses that they have."

Bielsa says his staff cut down this video into eight minutes for players to look at and analyse.

"The idea is to give the players a look at the opponent in a short space of time."

"We know that over 90 minutes Derby County can use four systems due to all of this analysis. We can see all the players and where they played."

He's showing another spreadsheet... this time with where each player of Derby can play on the pitch listed in a formation.

"We have five of these for all the systems that Derby County play."

He's now showing documents of information gather about each individual of Derby's squad. How many minutes they players at what position... the detail is ridiculous.

Bielsa now picking out Alioski as an example. He's looking at players from Derby that could go up against him at left-back. Analysing each player and what the information tells Leeds about how they could attack down that side.

One journalist has to step outside to meet a deadline... he's accommodating.

There's more to his... he has a final breakdown put into a powerpoint on each individual player from the Derby County squad that he can then look at after all of the information he has explained

"I do not need to go to a training session to find out an opponent. Why do I go? Because it is not against the rules and I didn't know it would cause such an issue. It is partly down to my anxiety."

"When I was a coach of Athletic Bilboa we played Barcelona in a final we lost 3-0. I gave all this information I have shown you on Barcelona to Pep Guardiola. He said to be you know more about Barcelona that me! I do this analysis to ease my anxiety."

He has them all laid out on a shelf underneath his presentation. There must be over 50 folders in place.

"What I feel is I have not done anything unlawful or forbidden."

He's got his goalkeeping coach explaining what the videos are showing... they are displaying Derby's attacking play and who goes where from each set-pieces.

They look at every set-piece and number them up to see how they attack... "does this help? No. Because we kept conceding!"

Finally Bielsa says they make a short video on the opposition goalkeeper (Scott Carson) how they can press or where his weaknesses are.

He's now showing his analyse for Stoke... he's showing 26 games of Luton because of new manager Nathan Jones. Says they are looking at all of what he has shown from his previous set-ups etc.

"This is all and I thank you for your patience..."

Bielsa has now left the building.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

He's brilliant.

Honestly. This is the sort of shit that all football managers should be doing.

IDK if anyone remembers but there was a behind the scenes moment at our club where someone asks Ryan Giggs whether Wilson is "any good in the hole". It was pretty cringe inducing because most Redcafe members apparently knew more about our club than our staff. Most managers don't even know what positions their OWN reserves and youth players play, let alone what anyone else does.

Edit: FOUND IT. Says everything about how our club was run
And as to the 'spying' thing, genuinely don't care, it's a club security issue. I would be shocked if, with all the money there is in football, there wasn't more of it.

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[Keeps It tidy]

Except they're not cheating, because it's not against the rules to spy. If they'd wanted people to not spy they should've put it in the rules.

If you don't have a rule about handball being illegal then people are going to handle the ball.

The best thing about this is that Lampard was crying to the media about the spying, and the only thing he brought upon himself was a press conference where an analysis of his team was broadcast to the world

But, how is not against the rules? Hell if there is no rules against it I would want bugs, wiretaps, drones, hidden cameras on opposing teams.

 

[Javi]

But, how is not against the rules? Hell if there is no rules against it I would want bugs, wiretaps, drones, hidden cameras on opposing teams.

Probably because he is watching from public ground somewhere...