Let's bust some myths about Manchester United

devilish

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The Glazers are happy with Ole and a 4th EPL place

There's no doubt that 4th place is minimum requirement but I very much doubt that a club who had bankrolled a manager at the tune of 415m are happy with just 4th place and no trophies whatsoever. The administration may be incompetent but they aren't stupid.

Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Ole believes in youths

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football. Ole went on signing the likes of Heaton and Mcshane at reserve level + he gave/offered contract extensions to Matic, Grant, Jesse and Mata despite United already have players like Mejbri, Garner, Elanga and Diallo at his disposal. That doesn't strike me as a manager who believes in youths

Trust the process. This is a team for the future

Not exactly. DDG, Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic, Mata and Heaton are in their 30s. Varane, Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Fred, Lindelof, Telles and Jesse are in their late 20s. This team is designed to win NOW.

Workrate, Workrate, Workrate

Work rate is a trait. You can't possibly expect a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Greenwood to suddenly start playing like prime Park or Keane did. Ole had ample opportunities to add a much needed DM to the team. He chose to sign the likes of VDB, Sancho and Ronaldo to the team despite we already had the likes of Martial, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani in the team as well. This unbalanced side is his side.
 
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midou

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The United Way

There is no such thing, there was the SAF way and it constituted of winning matches and titles. Anything not including actual winning games and trophies is not the so called "United way"
 

stw2022

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Progress

He cheered the place up after Mourinho but the football has been basic, reliant on individual brilliance and a tactical naivety that would make Keegan blush. Second last year was one of the most misleading achievements, if you can call it that, I can remember. Yes we finished above Liverpool and Chelsea but they had their own issues, Liverpool's defence was decimated with injury. I know you can look back at seasons where we won the league and point to issues opponents had with injuries, suspensions, transitions and all the rest of it. All I know is that we were the poorest team to finish second in any league season than I can remember. Possibly since the PL started. Even when teams would win the league by 10 or 11 points the team that finished second was a decent, solid, capable side who themselves would have made worthy champions in those seasons where they just came up short. I don't think that applied to us last season at all. And this isn't just looking at that season in the context of the last 9 games of this campaign. At the time watching it you could be forgiven to for thinking the team who came second did so by winning it in a raffle.
 

SAFMUTD

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Rebuild

We are not in a rebuild, nor rebuilds take 3 years and 500M. Rebuilds are meant for teams which generations passed and they need to transit from older players to new ones. When the core of the team gets old and needs replacing. That didn't happened to us.

We are just a club that hasn't found their feet, we bought and sold players during the last 3 windows. Just like we did the 5 windows before, what exactly make Ole's run a rebuild? What did he made that the others didn't that it gets labeled as such? "Resting the club DNA" going back to the "United way" just loads of catchy phrases that got repeated way too many times at the media until it became accepted as such.
 

Flytan

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The idea that we have to "stand by the manager".

Why? If you continuously underperformed at your job would you not get the boot? Is an underachieving footballer not replaced?

Ignoring that logic, United has never really followed through on it. We fired someone to give SAF the job.. Yes, he got time, but that was a different era and he came with a pedigree that showed he could get it done. Just because it worked before does not mean it is the same thing.

Also anyone that has ever uttered "he's just like SAF!!!" is a complete fraud of a United fan. Stop disrespecting him
 

stw2022

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The idea that we have to "stand by the manager".

Why? If you continuously underperformed at your job would you not get the boot? Is an underachieving footballer not replaced?

Ignoring that logic, United has never really followed through on it. We fired someone to give SAF the job.. Yes, he got time, but that was a different era and he came with a pedigree that showed he could get it done. Just because it worked before does not mean it is the same thing.

Also anyone that has ever uttered "he's just like SAF!!!" is a complete fraud of a United fan. Stop disrespecting him

Indeed and the idea anyone compares the time we gave Fergie to the 8 years we're wasted under Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole because we thought other clubs would be impressed we were 'different' is a joke.

Ferguson was one of the most sought after managers in the game. He'd broken the Old Firm strange-hold in Scotland and had European success with lowly Aberdeen. He got time because before he stepped foot in the door his CV demanded it. He was an exceptional manager before he even got here. How the feck that's been turned into this idea that anyone with a pro-licence and a boiled egg could turn up and must be given three or four years because 'look at Fergie' is as hilarious as it is disrespectful.
 

AjaxCunian

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A thread to dismiss any positive done by Ole
Probably relativizing some of the stuff the fervent Ole supporters wanted everyone to cling too to justify his position as United manager.

You would probably bother to debate against it, if it wasnt for that.
 

devilish

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A thread to dismiss any positive done by Ole
Ole should get credit when its due. For example

a- He was a perfect temporary manager. During that time he removed the toxicity left by Mou, he rallied the troops and we played some superb football at the time.
b- Under his tenure we were able to restructure the club (ex DOF and technical director). Moyes/LVG/Mou fought tooth and nail against that.

However some points pushed by the Ole inners are simply wrong and those myths deserve to be busted.
 
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Indeed and the idea anyone compares the time we gave Fergie to the 8 years we're wasted under Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole because we thought other clubs would be impressed we were 'different' is a joke.

Ferguson was one of the most sought after managers in the game. He'd broken the Old Firm strange-hold in Scotland and had European success with lowly Aberdeen. He got time because before he stepped foot in the door his CV demanded it. He was an exceptional manager before he even got here. How the feck that's been turned into this idea that anyone with a pro-licence and a boiled egg could turn up and must be given three or four years because 'look at Fergie' is as hilarious as it is disrespectful.
Getting SA Ferguson in the 80s is closer to Liverpool getting Klopp from Dortmund , but SAF had even more credit in the bank because he broke a two team duopoly in Scotland to win the league and beat Real Madrid in European Cup winners cup final.

People who make the Ole to SAF comparison for time are really insulting only their own football intelligence.
 

MoskvaRed

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Indeed and the idea anyone compares the time we gave Fergie to the 8 years we're wasted under Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and now Ole because we thought other clubs would be impressed we were 'different' is a joke.

Ferguson was one of the most sought after managers in the game. He'd broken the Old Firm strange-hold in Scotland and had European success with lowly Aberdeen. He got time because before he stepped foot in the door his CV demanded it. He was an exceptional manager before he even got here. How the feck that's been turned into this idea that anyone with a pro-licence and a boiled egg could turn up and must be given three or four years because 'look at Fergie' is as hilarious as it is disrespectful.
Good points from you and @Flytan (and the OP). Fergie was a uniquely brilliant talent from what is now a different era In football. The only relevant lesson for United in 2021 relates to his original appointment - he was probably the best up and coming manager around in 1986 and we made sure we acted quickly to get him.

All the rest - the long rebuild, the patience of the club, the turnaround as the early years of mediocrity were followed by two decades of glory, even the much exaggerated lack of prioritising of tactics in favour of strength of character and individual talent - has been transformed by nostalgia and sentimentality into some kind of United manager playbook by some fans.
 

MDFC Manager

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The Glazers are happy with Ole and a 4th EPL place

There's no doubt that 4th place is minimum requirement but I very much doubt that a club who had bankrolled a manager at the tune of 415m are happy with just 4th place and no trophies whatsoever. The administration may be incompetent but they aren't stupid.

Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Ole believes in youths

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football. Ole went on signing the likes of Heaton and Mcshane at reserve level + he gave/offered contract extensions to Matic, Grant, Jesse and Mata despite United already have players like Mejbri, Garner, Elanga and Diallo at his disposal. That doesn't strike me as a manager who believes in youths

Trust the process. This is a team for the future

Not exactly. DDG, Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic, Mata and Heaton are in their 30s. Varane, Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Fred, Lindelof, Telles and Jesse are in their late 20s. This team is designed to win NOW.

Workrate, Workrate, Workrate

Work rate is a trait. You can't possibly expect a Cristiano Ronaldo or a Greenwood to suddenly start playing like prime Park or Keane did. Ole had ample opportunities to add a much needed DM to the team. He chose to sign the likes of VDB, Sancho and Ronaldo to the team despite we already had the likes of Martial, Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani in the team as well. This unbalanced side is his side.
Wow, extremely rare that I agree with everything you say :)
 

red thru&thru

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The United Way

There is no such thing, there was the SAF way and it constituted of winning matches and titles. Anything not including actual winning games and trophies is not the so called "United way"
There's no "United Way" as such, however, at Manchester United, the club is expected to play attacking and dominating football, infusing players from the youth system and creating superstars. Our successful past tells you this.
 

Drizzle

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This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench.
Yes! The ridiculous myth that Ole's signings have been great. I'll give him Bruno, but after that it's patchy at best, and arguably quite poor.

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football
Yes! He's a safety first manager who clings to his comfort players. He's a million miles from the man who's going to risk blooding youth talent. The best crop of youngsters since '92 will be wasted under this man.

Workrate, Workrate
We actually run and press very badly, statistically. So even under this most basic of metrics, Ole has failed dismally.
 

afatzp

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We need a World-class DM to complete the puzzle

if we don't have a natural DM, then stop playing a formation that needs one. We have solid MC options: Fred , McTominay, VDB, Pogba, Matic . Sir Alex won PL with Carrick , same age and quality as Matic. Pogba also able to perform well in duo pivot MCs formation in France team and win World Cup; VDB was the core MC/AMC in the Ajax team and produced double-double in goal/assist. All others are performing well with their national teams.

Look at the midfield at Liverpool side which tears us apart today: Milner, Henderson, Keita. if Ole can't coach and train our current options to outperform these aged and limited 3, Rice / Bissouma / Tchouameni / Ndidi also would not help.
 

led_scholes

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Steadied the ship

We went to an excellent run at the beginning, fluked our way to CL quarter finals, yet when it mattered we started losing and we missed top 4. He then spent 160 millions to get top four. How many top managers would have done worse?
 

Real Name

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Stuff like the United way are holding this club in the the same place. Or the representations or versions of it.
United way should be that we're an elite club and right now we're far from elite.
In every aspect of the way.
 

Siorac

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There has been no significant, tangible progress on the pitch under Ole. Even if we dismiss the arguments presented about his signings (we shouldn't) and continue waxing lyrical about what a great team he built, the fact remains that in terms of actual results, he hasn't been better than his predecessors.

66, 66, 74 points and now 14 points in 9 games. The only reason any of it ever looked progress is because our rivals were weaker than at any previous point, as Arsenal and Spurs imploded simultaneously. In 2016/17, last season's 74 points would have seen us... sixth, the exact same position we actually managed that season.

The progress almost exclusively comes from being incredibly shit for an extended period of time after the permanent contract had been signed, and then signing Bruno who single-handedly lifted the team. But not to any marvelous heights: he just made it look better than it was during the miserable end to 18/19 and the dreadful first half of 19/20.
 

Sky1981

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Jose is a failure

Considering where we are 3 years and 500m after. I think he's not kidding when he says finishing 2nd with that squad is his biggest achievement. He may not be our cup of coffee but I think what he's achieved is on par with his reputation. If not for the 100+ points historical city team that season could have been a good season.
 

Siorac

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Jose is a failure

Considering where we are 3 years and 500m after. I think he's not kidding when he says finishing 2nd with that squad is his biggest achievement. He may not be our cup of coffee but I think what he's achieved is on par with his reputation. If not for the 100+ points historical city team that season could have been a good season.
He's still a failure. Spent a shedload of money, played dreadful football, achieved very little. Just because Ole is out of his depth, we don't need to retroactively redeem Mourinho.
 

Sky1981

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He's still a failure. Spent a shedload of money, played dreadful football, achieved very little. Just because Ole is out of his depth, we don't need to retroactively redeem Mourinho.
achieved very little is relatively speaking. It's not pleasing but he did achieved something tangible : EUFA cup.

If not winning the league is a failure than by all means one of Tuchel/Klopp/Ole is always a failure.
 

Gazautd18

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Good points raised by the OP and others.
Ole should only have come in as a temp, got the ship back on track and should have left for pastures new.
Instead we've clung on to some misguided sense of romantic nostalgia.
This club is not ruthless enough.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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A thread to dismiss any positive done by Ole
This nonsense is exactly why we’re where we are. He’s been remunerated to the level of a world class manager & delivered mediocre results. All the ‘good’ he’s done is subjective at best.
Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Ole believes in youths

Apart from Greenwood none of the kids he promoted had a sniff of first team football. Ole went on signing the likes of Heaton and Mcshane at reserve level + he gave/offered contract extensions to Matic, Grant, Jesse and Mata despite United already have players like Mejbri, Garner, Elanga and Diallo at his disposal. That doesn't strike me as a manager who believes in youths

Trust the process. This is a team for the future

Not exactly. DDG, Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic, Mata and Heaton are in their 30s. Varane, Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Fred, Lindelof, Telles and Jesse are in their late 20s. This team is designed to win NOW.
Whole post was spot on but these 3 stood out in particularly.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Ole has build a great side

Did he? He spent 180m in a defense that leaks more then the Titanic. This year and last year most expensive signings are rotting on the bench. I describe his second transfer window as the invisible transfer window simply because none of the players we bought were given a first team shot. Its too early to judge his third transfer window but the most expensive signing made last summer is rotting on the bench alongside last year most expensive signing. That doesn't strike me as him building a great side.

Agree with everything you said except the above.

Maguire performed very well in the Euros and last season too, so he has it in him to be better than what he has shown this season.

AWB played very well in a lot of games and has improved since he arrived.

Bruno hit the ground running and is our talisman.

Varane is a quality CB and has shown us how good he is and how good he can be.

Sancho is a quality winger, he has not pulled any trees but he is young and will definitely improve as the season goes.

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers in Europe.

Telles is a decent LB cover when needed.

Cavani, who played very well last term, is an excellent striker who can offer different attributes to the ones Ronaldo can offer.

Amad & Pellistri are for the future.

The one negative signing which he mismanaged is VdB, (he shouldn't have singed him to begin with).

So overall, Ole did build a very good side (that also includes other very good players, such as Shaw, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea, etc...)

Ole's inability to manage & coach said quality side does not take away from what he did in terms of players recruitment.


I agree with the rest of your post.
 

MoskvaRed

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Agree with everything you said except the above.

Maguire performed very well in the Euros and last season too, so he has it in him to be better than what he has shown this season.

AWB played very well in a lot of games and has improved since he arrived.

Bruno hit the ground running and is our talisman.

Varane is a quality CB and has shown us how good he is and how good he can be.

Sancho is a quality winger, he has not pulled any trees but he is young and will definitely improve as the season goes.

Ronaldo is one of the best goal scorers in Europe.

Telles is a decent LB cover when needed.

Cavani, who played very well last term, is an excellent striker who can offer different attributes to the ones Ronaldo can offer.

Amad & Pellistri are for the future.

The one negative signing which he mismanaged is VdB, (he shouldn't have singed him to begin with).

So overall, Ole did build a very good side (that also includes other very good players, such as Shaw, Rashford, Pogba, De Gea, etc...)

Ole's inability to manage & coach said quality side does not take away from what he did in terms of players recruitment.


I agree with the rest of your post.
Objectively speaking, considering the large amount of money spent, it’s decent, a 6/10. It gets overhyped to comments like “ brilliant” or “make him DoF” largely because our recruitment pre-Ole (particularly under Van Gaal) was atrocious to the point of self-sabotage and also, I suspect, because there is precious little else to justify a manager with his CV being at Old Trafford.
 

Roboc7

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Manager will get better given time. Said last season there was nothing more to come from Ole and giving him time would make no difference other than he could buy more players. The tactics, organisation, motivation etc were never going to magically all get better.

Ole was often compared to Klopp for some reason but Klopp has talent so giving him time is/was an advantage, us giving Ole time was at best misguided.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Objectively speaking, considering the large amount of money spent, it’s decent, a 6/10. It gets overhyped to comments like “ brilliant” or “make him DoF” largely because our recruitment pre-Ole (particularly under Van Gaal) was atrocious to the point of self-sabotage and also, I suspect, because there is precious little else to justify a manager with his CV being at Old Trafford.
yeah, those hyperboles like make him DoF and whatnot are wrong, but the team as a collective should be able to do way way more than its now, I mean look at how we play, every game, the players look like they never even met before, so disjoined and disorganized, you wonder what they do on the training pitch everyday!!

All I am saying is, Ole isn't good enough to manage United, and thankfully that is very clear to everyone now, but, it does not take away from him the fact that he brought in very good players, yes the club backed him with huge budgets, but he did bring in good players.

The next manager, should be able to do something with this team, and get them to play much better than what Ole ever done. Tuchel took over Chelsea and won CL and reached an FA cup final and top four in half a season, this year, he only bought Lukaku, and his team is top of the league.
 

Squaaaad

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The idea that he has "Steadied the ship" is one of the most biggest myths that I see parrotted around. After 3 years our level of play as at the same level if not lower than it was under Mourinho. And after spending so much money aswell. Inexcusable.
 

Mainoldo

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Sounds like a what has Mainoldo been saying for 2 years thread. :lol:

I see no wrong in non of this. The day we banish the words United way is the day we remove ourselves from this hypnotism the club is trying to put us under. Listen to Andy Tate last night. Spot on.
 

adexkola

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The Glazers Read The Caf and The Sooner Everyone On Here Becomes Ole Out and Agrees with The OP, The Sooner The Club Will Return to Glory aka Chelsea Mk 2

No explanation needed
 

stefan92

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There's no "United Way" as such, however, at Manchester United, the club is expected to play attacking and dominating football, infusing players from the youth system and creating superstars. Our successful past tells you this.
And this is in no way special to United, this is how most top clubs operate. There is nothing unique about that.
 

LoneStar

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Spot on OP. The time to win is now. Not in 2 years or 3 years. We have a strong squad, some of who are at their peak age. We can't afford to wait for 3 more years in the name of 'progress', whatever that is.
 

tomaldinho1

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Jose is a failure

Considering where we are 3 years and 500m after. I think he's not kidding when he says finishing 2nd with that squad is his biggest achievement. He may not be our cup of coffee but I think what he's achieved is on par with his reputation. If not for the 100+ points historical city team that season could have been a good season.
No Jose did fail here.
He just failed less than Ole.
 

Ixion

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Ole has not built a great side. His contribution to our central midfield was to ship out Herrera and bring in VDB, that's it. Everything else is Jose era. He has basically been playing Football Manager, sign forwards and wingers and get as many in the starting XI as possible but what looks good on paper doesn't always work well in reality.
 

Max_United

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Objectively speaking, considering the large amount of money spent, it’s decent, a 6/10. It gets overhyped to comments like “ brilliant” or “make him DoF” largely because our recruitment pre-Ole (particularly under Van Gaal) was atrocious to the point of self-sabotage and also, I suspect, because there is precious little else to justify a manager with his CV being at Old Trafford.
This. There were hardly any hidden gems identified. I can really give credit only for Bruno, as he was somewhat a risk coming from Portugese League. No one "for the future" is anywhere close to first team yet - although we paid quite a lot for the likes of Amad (under Fergie we used to pay a lot for youngsters like De Gea, Jones, Anderson Nani, Ronaldo etc but all of them were at least squad rotation options from the start). Sancho and VdB are bench warmers having cost upwards of 100m combined. Others were either backups like Telles, Heaton, Ighalo etc or obvious signings like Cavani, Varane and Ronaldo who are peak/past peak.

In his famous first window we overpaid for Maguire and AWB - they are ok, but there is still discussion if they are good enough (and for a combined 130m there should not be any), and nobody would pay us the amount we paid for them if we decide to sell them. James is already sold. But my God, how much credit Ole received for that window here, as if it was the best transfer window ever and we signed 3 world beaters for peanuts or something.