Let's discuss our attack

ManuMou

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Exact formation and players obviously depend on circumstances like opponents and injuries. Just an approximation of our attack formation and players (ie Pogba & Co. means Pogba could be playing in a midfield of two or three but he will obviously contribute to our attack more than other midfielders).

Against smaller teams I would like to see

Wan-Bissaka --------------Shaw
-----------Pogba & Co.----------
James/Greenwood-----Rashford
------------Martial---------------

Against bigger teams I would like to see similar dual striker system against PSG/Liverpool

Wan-Bissaka/Dalot ---------------Shaw
---------------Pogba & Co.--------------
James/Greenwood------Rashford/Martial

I think it's not all doom and gloom. With proper plan, coaching, and game time, a Top 4 is still very possible with okay-to-solid defense and McTom/Fred/Matic/Pereira doing their job okay-ish. Lingard/Mata as subs.

Thoughts?
 

WR10

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My thoughts are: it doesn't matter. We have a useless medical department.
 

mitchmouse

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Souness and Keane did make me wonder on Sunday. They seemed to think we could "just go out and sign Kane". Go all out. So I wonder if we stopped our ususal fecking about and offered them £200m-£220m would Levy crumble? Might be worth testing the water, but done on the quiet - and by a director of football!
 

Kappa123

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Our 'attack' doesn't even exist. One scrappy winger in Rashford and one mercurial striker-wide player in Martial who can't ever seem to turn up.

Our striker is in Italy and we're paying him to play for Inter, not only that but he's complete shite :lol:
 

Jibbs

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In an ideal world, United would go on and sign Kane and Sancho, for anywhere around 250 to 300 m. Instead we should be pragmatic and sign Erling Braut Håland and Samuel Chukwueze for around 100 to 120 m. Both players are destined to be greats of the game in the long-run.
 

blue blue

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What about signing Giroud at Xmas as an interim solution? Batshuyai is in front of him in the pecking order at Chelsea.
 

Samid

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What about signing Giroud at Xmas as an interim solution? Batshuyai is in front of him in the pecking order at Chelsea.
I'd prefer Mount and Odoi. You can have Mata and Matic in return.
 

blue blue

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I'd prefer Mount and Odoi. You can have Mata and Matic in return.
Its good to see you lot haven't lost your sense of humour. I think Chelsea might be down £150m on that deal.
 

blue blue

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Let's be nice, let's be nice now. We'll throw Lingard too.
You can throw in Rashford and Martial and it still ain't happening.

They aren't out and out centre forwards anyway. Giroud might add some focus to your attack. At the moment I don't see a target man.
 

King Andow

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You can throw in Rashford and Martial and it still ain't happening.

They aren't out and out centre forwards anyway. Giroud might add some focus to your attack. At the moment I don't see a target man.
Maybe as a short-term loan, he's old and declining. There's better options for the target man role out there, like Wout Weghorst.
 

UpWithRivers

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Its beyond me how a former goal scoring hero has 0 capacity to attack. Got rid of attacking players without replacements, decided his current forwards are good enough, has set up one plan and thats counter attack, pushed our best creative midfielder Pogba deeper, relies on Mata, Periera and lindgard for right wing and number 10 positions and all have about 5 goals and assists put together, puts pressure on a 17 year old to deliver. And on and on. How did he not see this coming?

To fix it I think we need to hope Fred can improve and him and Mctominay can form a bit of a partnership freeing Pogba.

Then Martial needs to play as main striker with Rashford on the left and James RW.
 

Godfather

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The Chelsea game was the last game we scored more than one goal. Let that sink in. It's absolute shambles and probably the worst I can ever remember. Not just the strikers but our whole attacking set up starting from midfield.
 

Roboc7

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Our attacking play is completely dependent on counter attacking, there’s no other tactic. It’s like it didn’t occur to anyone that teams would just sit back and we have to have a different way of attacking.

At this moment it’s hard to see where the goals are coming from, I can’t even remember last game where the opposition keeper was even remotely busy.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Our attacking play is completely dependent on counter attacking, there’s no other tactic. It’s like it didn’t occur to anyone that teams would just sit back and we have to have a different way of attacking.

At this moment it’s hard to see where the goals are coming from, I can’t even remember last game where the opposition keeper was even remotely busy.
When playing against a deep sitting defence, the only ways for us to score is to depend on individual moments or coincidence. Hence, the team with or without PP is like night and day against a team parking the bus.

A team without no plan on how to systematically break down a balanced defence are not rare. Most teams struggle with this --> Tottenham and Liverpool are two teams that dominate the rest of a game, but will really struggle against a parked defence. City as a team got the ability, Messi does it for Barca, and the rest of the teams turns to frequent crossing from good positions.

Our problem is that we are so bad at passing/controlling the game that we struggle to pass the ball well against a deep sitting team.
 

croadyman

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Just seen someone mention in a fan cam that we haven't won a league game this season without scoring a penalty. Wow that is certainly a very damning stat of just how shit we are and how little we create.
 

RG 11

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Yeah except we don't have a proper plan and proper coaching.
This. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to our play. Current plan seems to be to have basic tactics and then let players do whatever they want.

It doesn't really seem like players are trained:
- to make runs
- look for runs
- draw defenders to create space for others

Combined this with lack of cohesive wing play, strikers not getting in the box and some of the worst set piece takers in the league and we can see why tinkering with formations wont exactly change anything.
 

amolbhatia50k

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This. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to our play. Current plan seems to be to have basic tactics and then let players do whatever they want.

It doesn't really seem like players are trained:
- to make runs
- look for runs
- draw defenders to create space for others

Combined this with lack of cohesive wing play, strikers not getting in the box and some of the worst set piece takers in the league and we can see why tinkering with formations wont exactly change anything.
They are trained to do that. However it's not surprising that better managers are better at doing their job. And hence we appear untrained as compared to the top sides.
 

RG 11

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They are trained to do that. However it's not surprising that better managers are better at doing their job. And hence we appear untrained as compared to the top sides.
Based on Ole emphasizing on giving players freedom to express themselves in interviews (along with the no set penalty taker thing he mentioned), I actually think it's possible there's lack of training when it comes to the minor details of the game.
 

devilish

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Our team is a contradiction in itself. We've got a top midfielder whose best games came as the most advanced option in a 3 men CM. So what do we do? We play him in a 2 men CM. That ruins Matic as well whose an anchor man. Same thing about the RW role. We've bought one of the best defensive fullbacks in the world. What do we do? We play no entities as RW.

If you ask me we should stop piling up squad players. We've already have enough in Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Mata, Lingard and co. Instead we should buy players that are quality, they provide value and they are versatile to adapt to 2-3 systems which in turn would make us unpredictable.
 

Bestietom

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We either bring in an attacking midfielder and stick with Pogba, and Mctominay, or a Defensive midfielder and push Pogba forward.
Mata, Pereira, Lingard, have all tried playing as a 10 but failed.
 
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"Attack"...

Sorry, I'm a United fan so I'm not familiar with that term.

Isn't the objective of football to score one goal and then hope your opponent doesn't score?
 

redshaw

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Just seen someone mention in a fan cam that we haven't won a league game this season without scoring a penalty. Wow that is certainly a very damning stat of just how shit we are and how little we create.
Yep it's very bad.

An opening day win against Chelsea which includes a penalty and a 1-0 pen win at home to Leicester is all we have. Opening days can be random, we caught Chelsea at a good time and they could've easily scored 2-3 goals anyway.
 

Bestietom

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Our team is a contradiction in itself. We've got a top midfielder whose best games came as the most advanced option in a 3 men CM. So what do we do? We play him in a 2 men CM. That ruins Matic as well whose an anchor man. Same thing about the RW role. We've bought one of the best defensive fullbacks in the world. What do we do? We play no entities as RW.

If you ask me we should stop piling up squad players. We've already have enough in Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Mata, Lingard and co. Instead we should buy players that are quality, they provide value and they are versatile to adapt to 2-3 systems which in turn would make us unpredictable.
Mata, Pereira, Lingard, Fred, Matic, are just not good enough. We need to get rid and bring in a few more midfielders.
Rashford and Martial are not CF's so we need a prolific goalscorer.
Then we need a goalscoring specialist RW.
Jones, Rojo, Should go also so maybe a left sided CB/LB coming in.
Do you agree.
 

passing-wind

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Somehow fans have been tricked into thinking that buying player X will automatically change the dynamics of the team being dreadfully coached and all of a sudden are able to create clear cut chances at our own disposal ?

Ole being such a basic manager is the reason why his only success has come in the Norwegian league in a decade. The likes of Pep / Klopp put emphasis on the details of their play. That's why when we have a manager like Ole who can provide no in depth analysis to systematically make us useful, the hope of any players coming in and making a drastic difference is mute.

How about this perspective are we relying on quality players to make a difference individually, or are we relying on quality players to make a difference in the team ? One of these dynamics is the reason we as a club are so inconsistent and one of them provides us with consistency. Unfortunately for us, a team needs direction and a philosophy, something Solskjaer has been unable to provide.

So my solution is it doesn't matter who we buy under Ole, we will not move forward until we start looking like a team and not a bunch of individuals.
 

sunama

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My thoughts are: it doesn't matter. We have a useless medical department.
We also have a useless DoF, our manager isn't great, our players are mis-firing, our scouts seem like a waste of space (AWB was a player highlighted by many on here, Maguire doesn't need scouting - everybody knew about him and James was recommended by Giggs - our scouts are useless), our coaches are obviously bad at their job.
From top to bottom we are terrible. We ground out a draw against LFC after they laid siege to our goal and many on here are ecstatic about this.

And yes, regarding our attack - poor coaching and tactics. The coaches (Carrick and McKenna) have known nothing but failure since they joined the backroom staff.
 

TwoSheds

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I feel like dropping James would be rather mental given the percentage of our goals he's been responsible for so far this year.
 

Volumiza

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Aside from James and maybe in a year or so Greenwood, we have no player that is completely specialised in attack.

It's amazing to think that Dan James, £15m is actually our biggest threat. I mean, that in a nutshell is the problem. Much as I have a desire to see Rashford and Martial become great goalscorers, they just aren't.

There is no one player dynamic enough in an attacking Midfield role to create opportunities and no absolute goal getters either. It's not rocket science really. Some people are saying it's down to the coaching and that may be partially true but come on, none of our players have anything close to the natural instincts some of our best goalscorers had, you can't teach a player everything.

We desperately need some effective attacking personnel, midfield and the forward line, it will make the world of difference.
 
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Our team is a contradiction in itself. We've got a top midfielder whose best games came as the most advanced option in a 3 men CM. So what do we do? We play him in a 2 men CM. That ruins Matic as well whose an anchor man. Same thing about the RW role. We've bought one of the best defensive fullbacks in the world. What do we do? We play no entities as RW.

If you ask me we should stop piling up squad players. We've already have enough in Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Mata, Lingard and co. Instead we should buy players that are quality, they provide value and they are versatile to adapt to 2-3 systems which in turn would make us unpredictable.
It's almost as if Ole is a shit manager and we are a poorly run club...
 

koop

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Mata, Pereira, Lingard, Fred, Matic, are just not good enough. We need to get rid and bring in a few more midfielders.
Rashford and Martial are not CF's so we need a prolific goalscorer.
Then we need a goalscoring specialist RW.
Jones, Rojo, Should go also so maybe a left sided CB/LB coming in.
Do you agree.
No please, he's our lord and saviour.
 

devilish

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Mata, Pereira, Lingard, Fred, Matic, are just not good enough. We need to get rid and bring in a few more midfielders.
Rashford and Martial are not CF's so we need a prolific goalscorer.
Then we need a goalscoring specialist RW.
Jones, Rojo, Should go also so maybe a left sided CB/LB coming in.
Do you agree.
It's almost as if Ole is a shit manager and we are a poorly run club...
I confess that I tried to build a realistic side that might make us competitive again and despite my hard effort to avoid the unrealistic players (Neymar, Kane etc) + those who would cost a bomb (Jadon Sancho etc), it still looked like something coming out from football manager. I ensure you the names I put down were very gettable players like Tonali, Fraser, McGinn, Bergwijn, Konate, Ndidi etc.

The reason being is that we lack both quality and quantity. Defence is hardly perfect (no quality LB and no quality cover for any other position really). Once past defence there's not a single player that deserves a first team player role. They aren't good enough (Periera, Lingard, Fred, Jones, Rojo etc), they are too old (Matic, Mata etc), they lack the attitude to be at a club like United were consistency is key (Martial) or they simply don't want to be here anymore (Pogba).

What I do know is that United need some serious restructuring at board level. We can't leave our transfer strategy at the whims of the manager simply because

a- modern managers see the job as a short term project. They want to win and win now so they can move elsewhere for bigger money
b- modern managers lack the skill and the time to properly scout players
c- we need to be able a huge staff turnover on a regular basis
d- managers are often stuck ups who think that their philosophy is the only successful system there is. We can't be at the whim of these people else we end up with a hot potch of players from different philosophies who won't work well together. We need someone who is here for the long run and bring in players who are versatile enough to adapt to different systems just in case the manager won't last long. For example does it make sense to bring in a player whose a natural no 10 and can't play in any other role especially since we're well stocked with no 10s and we might soon have a manager who doesn't rely on no 10s?

Also this rebuild will take years. Therefore any manager coming here need to embrace the fact that he'll be relying on a number of sub standard players for X amount of years. We should hire managers who adapts his system to the players he's got rather then a purist who sticks to his 'vision' and can't divert from it whatsoever. Unfortunately since we've got a team who lack quality than that would probably means grinding points.
 

tjb

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You can blame ole all you like but this is no different to what lvg and Mourinho had to deal with. It's not the midfield, it's the midfield, it's the attack. Keane and ince weren't responsible for their front fours, Scholes and Carrick never had high assist numbers, even viera and petit/ Silva weren't creators for their teams.
We took a gamble on players that had not shown anything paramount to being consistent attackers. Martial came to us at 18, produced a few games and was considered a saviour. Rashford was even younger and did nothing prior that that yet despite the fact that he was as bad as iheanacho over the last three years, we are still arguing over him while city have discarded iheanacho. We still don't have a right winger, and the rest of our attack are either too young or are very bad. The difference between our front 4 and other teams is simple. Ours do not have that proven quality. Can't control balls, no physical side, poor passes, poor creators, no vision and poor in moving off the ball outside of beating the offside trap. Fred and Matic have been bad, but I feel with a better attack this could have been masked. It's not as if they do not get the ball in the final third, but if you constantly rely on wan bissaka and young to create for you while you hide, then you should not be a man utd player.