Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

JPRouve

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He is definitely not the only one like this out there. He is the most aggressive though both in his justifications and in the way he talks about clubs and people involved in those clubs.

The De Ligt transfer wasn't strange, his justification was. And imo when people have ridiculous justification they are simply lying.
It's a ridiculous justification for a 19 years old defender to want to play alongside Bonucci and Chiellini and develop his craft?
 

do.ob

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Well I do of course base it by the things that we the public can see. Pogba dismissed the opportunity to play and listen to one of the greatest managers of all time, and to do that and take a step in a completely new direction, you have to listen a lot to someone who assures you and tells you that you can succeed and be better off elsewhere (And Raiola was right - short term at least). So he moved, and therefore we can assume that he definitely listens to his agent a lot. It wasn't even like Pogba had patience with us. He moved at age 18 and Raiola was advocating all the time by then. Of course we can't say for certain that he depends on others like his agent to get through his life, and that wasn't what I meant.

I'm just saying Pogba clearly is influenced by him, and has been from a very young age. If someone gets it right the first time, you're even more likely to listen to him the next time - and that time happens to be where Raiola apparently makes 41m in agent-fees for a move that hasn't even been good for Pogba's career. But oh wait, don't worry, he'll just make it all good again by helping him to Real, PSG or Juve... of course for a massive agent fee, and now Pogba will surely be happy again. How unfortunate that Raiola made about 60m in the meantime.
I think that's a bit naive. Pogba barely got any first team minutes at United and SAF supposedly responded to their demands with "you're a twat". Then came along Italian champions Juventus with a first team spot and huge wages. I don't think most players would need a lot of persuasion to take that offer. To take "he definitely listens to his agent a lot" away from that is a stretch, as well as assuming that because he supposedly listened a lot to his agent when he was 18 he still does now. People grow up, mature as a person and get more independent in their decision making. Who knows why Pogba took the United offer, maybe it was for sentimental reasons, maybe they offered the most money, maybe the club made a good pitch with Jose + huge transfer budgets, maybe he thought he could be the face of one of the biggest brands in the world , or a combination of the aforementioned reasons. To just say it's because Raiola wanted it is kind of insulting to him as a person and don't you think if it was anything like Raiola tricking him into a shitty transfer to pocketing 40m for himself then Pogba would've dropped him?

Agent compensation in football is almost a topic for itself, but for Raiola to pocket said 41m all three parties involved (Juventus, Pogba and United) had to enter a contract with him and all three parties continued to work with him afterwards, so I wouldn't exactly use that to paint him as the devil.
 

jackal&hyde

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It's a ridiculous justification for a 19 years old defender to want to play alongside Bonucci and Chiellini and develop his craft?
Yes. The current best CD in the World did not "craft" his play by playing with Maldini and Baresi but by having talent, good attitude and good coaching, the same as most other great defenders. I know it sounds logical on paper, but if you think about it is not. It's just as a useless justification as saying Germany was better for attackers then Juve or United would have been (he just took one of the best strikers ever there the summer before last).

For the record, i think De Ligt is at the right club, but not because of the bs justifications Rialo gives but because when players get the chance to get to the European elite they should take it. With Haaland he used a bs excuse, i can only imagine that in the case of De Ligt Juve gave in to his demands but with Haaland they did not, neither did United. A much more logical explanation then Italy good for defenders and Germany for attackers IMO.
 

do.ob

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Yes. The current best CD in the World did not "craft" his play by playing with Maldini and Baresi but by having talent, good attitude and good coaching, the same as most other great defenders. I know it sounds logical on paper, but if you think about it is not. It's just as a useless justification as saying Germany was better for attackers then Juve or United would have been (he just took one of the best strikers ever there the summer before last).

For the record, i think De Ligt is at the right club, but not because of the bs justifications Rialo gives but because when players get the chance to get to the European elite they should take it. With Haaland he used a bs excuse, i can only imagine that in the case of De Ligt Juve gave in to his demands but with Haaland they did not, neither did United. A much more logical explanation then Italy good for defenders and Germany for attackers IMO.
I think it's fair to say that the Italians have a knack for developing defenders and who knows what the motivations of a teenager are. Maybe he idolizes guys like Bonucci or Chiellini, maybe it's just some polite bullshitting, who knows and who actually cares. Joining Juventus looks like a solid move from every angle.

Dortmund have a terrific track record when it comes to developing highly rated attackers and they were actively looking for a #9 even before Haaland joined them. It makes perfect sense to go there. Sancho and Dembele made a similar choice when half of Europe was after them, neither of them with Raiola's "help".
 

sourdough satellite

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I don't like him and I don't like the fact that people distort reality particularly when I see people praise agents that actually push players to move and have done it through third part ownership. Raiola is rude and generally unpleasant but there are famous agents who are directly involved in tax evasion schemes and players exploitation, these agents are never targeted by the press the way they do about Raiola when the consequences of their actions are far worse than being offended.
That's fair, although I don't get why you're so insistent on defending someone just because someone else is worse.
 
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Cliche Guevara

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I have seen people turn it that way but it's a lot more nuanced. The response is in the context of Manchester United putting together mediocre seasons and a player wanting to win the Champions League and the Ballon d'Or, Raiola answered that Today he wouldn't bring any, such, players because we don't provide the foundations for success. There is actually nothing wrong in what he said or more accurately with what he thinks other than it's not good to hear for United fans.

As for the second part he doesn't push his clients to move and they don't move more often than others.
What’s it got to do with him then? Saying he wouldn’t bring players to United. It’s none of his business isn’t it if a player wants to sign for United?
 

JPRouve

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That's fair, although I don't get why you're so insistent on defending someone just because someone else is worse.
I'm not defending him, it's just some of the things said are clearly wrong particularly when it comes to his clients moving clubs, it's a strange claim because it's blatantly wrong and weird that people keep mentioning it. The other issue in the Haaland or De Ligt cases is that it's small time, people are basically insulting Dortmund and Juventus, someone tried to argue that it wasn't conceivable for a player to pick Juventus instead of Barcelona that Raiola had to do something shady, now we have people seriously suggesting that Dortmund was chosen for money reason instead of United as if it was the only possible reason.
 

JPRouve

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What’s it got to do with him then? Saying he wouldn’t bring players to United. It’s none of his business isn’t it if a player wants to sign for United?
He was asked about United, Pogba and how things have turned since 2016.
 

Bondi77

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You again missing the point. Players leave clubs before their contract ends all the time. Its called a transfer

Clubs that cannot fulfil a players level and ambition usually end of losing the player.

If a club signs a player with the intention of consistently playing UCL for instance, then not playing in the UCL for a few years could lead to the player wanting out.

Its not just about the contract but also the clubs promises to the player to get them to sign which are important.

Of course it works both ways as clubs sell players who do not want to be sold if they are underperforming etc.
Probably no point on continuing this discussion at least between you and I as we will go around in circles, Cheers.
 

Cliche Guevara

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He was asked about United, Pogba and how things have turned since 2016.
I know but why is he saying he wouldn’t bring a player to United if it’s solely the player’s choice?

What’s the team the player chooses got to do with the agent?

Either he is trashing the club unnecessarily or he does influence which clubs his players sign for.

Can’t be both.
 

JPRouve

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I know but why is he saying he wouldn’t bring a player to United if it’s solely the player’s choice?

What’s the team the player chooses got to do with the agent?

Either he is trashing the club unnecessarily or he does influence which clubs his players sign for.

Can’t be both.
He is talking about what he would advise to a player which is his job as an agent. The player may not listen.
 

JPRouve

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I’m not so sure that is his job but if it is then it suggests he actually does Engineer transfers for his clients.
It is part of all agents job and he helps them engineer transfers if they want to, Ibrahimovic is an example of that. Others had no intention to move much or at all like Nedved or Insigne.
 

Stadjer

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I thought the idea to not sign or have any Raiola players was as stupid as it can be... however now Lingard has teamed up with Raiola i am starting to like the idea.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Raiola seems to be doing much of the "dirty work" for the players. No players want to be portrayed as greedy or unloyal by demanding a move or big wages, so better have an agent to take the brunt.
Take PP for example. It is understandable that he wants to leave, but if he demanded it publicly it would be another case. Then Raiola becomes his "mouthpiece". If Raiola acted on his on behalf with what he said, he would have very few clients, but instead, he got some very loyal players on his books.
 

Judas

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At this point I think Pogba would get more credit from Utd fans and everyone else if he was just honest, I doubt he could be treated much worse by his own fans than he currently is anyway.
 

The Stain

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This deserves it's own thread. Hopefully his days are numbered now. Great news!
 

Red Daz

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Wouldn’t surprise me if Lingard wants out, I mean it’s not exactly going well for him , new start/challenge may be what he needs, who better to help with that than Mr.Raiola ?
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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So you think someone should honour a contract with an employer who has not honoured the promises made to get them to sign a contract?

This isnt related to Pogba by the way, just in general. Clubs make all sorts of promises about their project, if they are not met a player has every right to want to leave, contract or not
This is an interesting take.

A contract is not just about remuneration and duration, it also outlines expectations of both parties. Any promises made should be reflected in the contract, and the contract should be honoured.
 

Son

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If we look at this from a neutral or United point of view then there is no excuse for these comments.

That being said I would be surprised if they didn't have a purpose for Pogba in mind. Either to put a bit of pressure on the club to improve the team around him or to create some drama, so he can leave in the summer.



Not to derail this thread too much, but I don't see Zorc leaving Dortmund, he's been with the club for over 40 years now.

Ralf Rangnick, the engineer of Hoffenheim and Leipzig, appears very interested in a new challenge however. And given that he already built two clubs from scratch and doesn't seem to have a problem with working for private owners I'm a bit surprised that United don't appear to be interested in him. He even spent a year studying in England when he was younger.
Ralf Rangnick seems like an absolute no brainier for us. I would love to know what is going through our owners and boards minds on these matters.

I get the feeling we could be laying foundations now to possibly bring a manager like Nagelsmann here in the next few years as a supplement to a new DOF.

It is obvious certain people are too concerned about holding onto key positions and consolidating power at our football club to give away any kind of authority.

I never have agreed with the Sir Alex plan to give jobs to the boys. In my opinion that’s part of the problem. Too many people behind the scenes with no actual sway in the industry.
 

Strelok

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Probably best news this week :lol:

As much as I hate that fat scumbag I'd pay him to taking Lingard elsewhere tbh. Not like I hate him or smth but watching him play is just depressing enough.
 

dev1l

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Raiola is not stupid. I think his real target is getting Rashford under his wraps. Lingard and Pogba (both Raiola clients) are considered to be close to Rashford.
So our fat friend will be waiting for the first chance to pounce even more knowing that Rashford has the potential of being one of the top 3 players in the future.
Hope I m wrong but we ll have to wait and see.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Raiola is not stupid. I think his real target is getting Rashford under his wraps. Lingard and Pogba (both Raiola clients) are considered to be close to Rashford.
So our fat friend will be waiting for the first chance to pounce even more knowing that Rashford has the potential of being one of the top 3 players in the future.
Hope I m wrong but we ll have to wait and see.
Hopefully his current agent feels differently as while I don’t care for either Pogba or Lingard it would be a shame to end up getting threatened every window that Rashford wants out as well.
 

dev1l

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Hopefully his current agent feels differently as while I don’t care for either Pogba or Lingard it would be a shame to end up getting threatened every window that Rashford wants out as well.
Knowing Raiola he ll tell him that he s the best in his position and deserves to be best paid player in the world.
 

tenpoless

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Lingard is like Guldan from World of Warcraft. He had personal issues, most people who knew him loathed him (the fans) but there's one person who believed in his potential (Ole) and suggested him to go seek out throne of the elements for an answer ("Go out, enjoy your game, perform your best and smile"). He went there but the elements (the media) rejected him (published his 2019 statistics to beat him up), in their absent, something different whispered his name (Raiola) and now He's about to join the Burning Legion (Raiola's clients).

If We continue drawing parallels between the two : Lingard will then betray Ole, the only person who trusted him and leave United. He will grow hungrier for money but still under the control of Raiola. But alas even after He left with all his money, nobody misses Lingard because there was never anybody who really liked him in the first place (other than Ole and Class of 63). In several years He will get twatted by an edgier kid and that marks the end of his era.
 
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RedBanker

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Lingard and Raiola teaming up. No surprises there, two pointless people who steal their respective livings coming together for mutual benefits and agenda. What surprised me on this thread was the number of faux supporters using Raiola's vitriol to bash the club.
 

SuperiorXI

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Am I alone in thinking the club should set a precedent here and completely sever ties with Raiola?

It can't be good for his career to lose contact with one of the richest clubs in world football.
 

jackal&hyde

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Am I alone in thinking the club should set a precedent here and completely sever ties with Raiola?

It can't be good for his career to lose contact with one of the richest clubs in world football.
No. His public bad mouthing of the club has a net negative effect on us as imo the image of a club is very important to bringing new players in, commercial contract, etc. We should ban our players from signing with him and not buy any other player of his as he is destructive factor for the present and future of the club. Plenty of other agents around that will benefit from this.
 

SuperiorXI

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No. His public bad mouthing of the club has a net negative effect on us as imo the image of a club is very important to bringing new players in, commercial contract, etc. We should ban our players from signing with him and not buy any other player of his as he is destructive factor for the present and future of the club. Plenty of other agents around that will benefit from this.
Fully agree. Imagine SAF was still here? There would be a murder.
 

JPRouve

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No. His public bad mouthing of the club has a net negative effect on us as imo the image of a club is very important to bringing new players in, commercial contract, etc. We should ban our players from signing with him and not buy any other player of his as he is destructive factor for the present and future of the club. Plenty of other agents around that will benefit from this.
You are giving an awful lot of credit. No one in football/adverstisement waited for Raiola to speak to a couple of journalists to have a negative opinion of the way United are doing things and where they seem to be heading. You just need to look at Redcafe, we have been discussing about the things he mentioned for years now and it's the same for every agents, coaches, sport journalist and any company that may want to be associated with United.
 

Ishdalar

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Am I alone in thinking the club should set a precedent here and completely sever ties with Raiola?

It can't be good for his career to lose contact with one of the richest clubs in world football.
Di Maria, Pepe, Cristiano Ronaldo or even Mourinho, all of them went away when they could still do great things for Real Madrid, and all of them had the same agent that was trying to push his own agenda to the club, so they kind of shunned him out.

Cutting tides with Raiola would be even easier for United, and starts to look necessary if he keeps picking current United players under his wing, otherwise the whole squad and the transfer policy might be poisoned
 

jackal&hyde

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You are giving an awful lot of credit. No one in football/adverstisement waited for Raiola to speak to a couple of journalists to have a negative opinion of the way United are doing things and where they seem to be heading. You just need to look at Redcafe, we have been discussing about the things he mentioned for years now and it's the same for every agents, coaches, sport journalist and any company that may want to be associated with United.
I think it's different with fans and the media. Agents are directly involved and play a major part in player acquisitions and that is arguably the biggest factor in to getting a club back on top, improve, etc. "i would not bring any player to United" is almost like a declaration of war coming from an agent and to me it sounds more like a personal thing rather then a business decision. Any club in the World, no matter the position they would find themselves in, would never tolerate that kind of talk from someone that is part of the game. Best case scenario is poor class but it sounds personal to me.

I've also read his comment on Pogba from a few days back and it sounds like the player wants to stay; i wonder if it annoys him to no end that the player he wants to move refuses to make a fuss about it and is ready to stay for at least another year.

I really think he's that bad of a character. Guy bought Al Capones villa ffs, tells you a little about his ways i think. Very shady character with investigations, bans, players that make numerous moves but this public bad mouthing tops it all for me, speaking as a fan.
 

JPRouve

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I think it's different with fans and the media. Agents are directly involved and play a major part in player acquisitions and that is arguably the biggest factor in to getting a club back on top, improve, etc. "i would not bring any player to United" is almost like a declaration of war coming from an agent and to me it sounds more like a personal thing rather then a business decision. Any club in the World, no matter the position they would find themselves in, would never tolerate that kind of talk from someone that is part of the game. Best case scenario is poor class but it sounds personal to me.

I've also read his comment on Pogba from a few days back and it sounds like the player wants to stay; i wonder if it annoys him to no end that the player he wants to move refuses to make a fuss about it and is ready to stay for at least another year.

I really think he's that bad of a character. Guy bought Al Capones villa ffs, tells you a little about his ways i think. Very shady character with investigations, bans, players that make numerous moves but this public bad mouthing tops it all for me, speaking as a fan.
That's beside the point that you made in the previous post but just a small thing that is quite important. He said "Today, I would not bring any player at United.", I already told you what the context of that quote was and why the highlighted is important particularly when you interpret it the way you did. I will say it one more time and move on, he is talking about the state of the team today and its ability to support a player that would be aiming for silverware, today.