Me too, hope this happens!
Lewis Hall
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Dalot absolutely does not “suck”. Not every team has a Hakimi starting for them. City just challenged with a midfielder playing at RB.
Dalot is plenty good enough to be a starting RB in a league winning team. Not saying he’s perfect, but we have far more pressing concerns this summer.
Yeah given a choice
im not sure our numbers stack up, can’t see how we can afford him and 2 new midfielders, plus a Ugarte replacement.
Hopefully I’m wrong, would be a great signing and would also provide more cover at CB with Shaw too.
Hopefully I’m wrong, would be a great signing and would also provide more cover at CB with Shaw too.
Plus, we have an amazing record when he starts under Carrick. We're basically unbeatable.
50m something for a top LB talent being so young is a no brainer. Lets get this done quickly
Honestly this kind of thinking needs to stop as having strength in depth and a minimal drop off in quality when rotating is something we’ve not had in years and there’s also the fact that Shaw is a massive injury risk over a whole season and Amass needs to go out on loan to a PL club to prove his fitness and gain more experience, in a year or two having Hall and Amass fighting over top spot will be good for them and good for us.
then we definitely agree to disagree. Noone in their right mind would ever pay50m for Dalot, he's okay squad player and gives hiis all, but it's not a conincidence that there ae compilation of his feck ups in front of goal. he's absolutely woeful going forward, while being okay defensively. Cant believe that this is even a discussion. over years and with a bit of research - watching a bit of footy outside United would give you an idea whats the level of fullbacks and certainly a fullback which should be aspiring to wint the champions league let alone Premier league. But perhaps you are too young to remmeber.
What's actually world class about Hall? Which areas is he top quality. I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's a world beater.
Doesn't he also have a poor injury record?
Doesn't he also have a poor injury record?
We've also been linked to Truffert, Diouf and Nathaniel Brown. So I don't think there's a shortage of players on our list, whether they're all of required quality is another question.
Had one serious injury that cost him about half a season.
I love a dramatic opening to a post
I'm not 100% convinced either way tbh, I could be persuaded Hall is the way to go, but then again I'm not sure I'd spend 50M on the LB spot this summer either...do you put faith in Amass, all options have merits.
26/27 Season
LB - Shaw, Dorgu, Amass
RB - Dalot, Maz, Amad(?)
RB looks a bit weaker to me, but then the obvious follow-up question is which RB would you go for smartarse? and I'm not sure I have a clear answer/winner for the RB spot either.
35m ederson
65m Fernandes
60m Hall
70-80m for ?? CM
30-40m for backup forward
Total 280m
Maybe recoup 80-100m in sales so net spend of 180-200m?
Optimistic assessment but with our financial reports coming in better than expected, new CL and sponsorship revenue it could be doable.
Has anyone claimed he’s world class?
The more common claim I’ve seen is that he’s been one of the best LBs in the PL.
Yeah going to have to disagree if you don’t think its even a discussion because like I said, he’s not perfect, far from it, and in the “we need to fullbacks” thread I think I agreed, but improving over him would be a luxury not a requirement for a league winning team IMO. He’s a solid RB.
If you get him then I think our Left flank is covered. He is best at inverting so he can do that if Dorgu is starting LW. But he is athletic enough to get up and down the pitch as an overlapping LB to allow Cunha to drift into the middle. Our left side of Hall/Shaw and Licha/Heaven is then incredibly press resistant and good on the ball.
Carrick seems to play Dorgu as a left winger first and foremost so we are incredibly light at LB.
RB we have Dalot and Maz and I’m sure a youth player can be their back up in the same way Amass could be back up for Hall and Shaw.
Hall is already a top premier league left back with potential to be one of the best.
Shaw who yes managed to stay fit all season but we had one game a season. Dorgu who has never played left back for us and Amass who has had half a good season in men’s football before being injured for 6 months.I love a dramatic opening to a post
I'm not 100% convinced either way tbh, I could be persuaded Hall is the way to go, but then again I'm not sure I'd spend 50M on the LB spot this summer either...do you put faith in Amass, all options have merits.
26/27 Season
LB - Shaw, Dorgu, Amass
RB - Dalot, Maz, Amad(?)
RB looks a bit weaker to me, but then the obvious follow-up question is which RB would you go for smartarse? and I'm not sure I have a clear answer/winner for the RB spot either.
Carrick seems to play Dorgu as a left winger first and foremost so we are incredibly light at LB.
RB we have Dalot and Maz and I’m sure a youth player can be their back up in the same way Amass could be back up for Hall and Shaw.
Hall is already a top premier league left back with potential to be one of the best.
Nice. Seems pretty realistic to me
The only thing you're missing is a Bayindir replacement, but back up keepers tend to be cheap.
But yes it might depend on us getting lucky with Rashford, Ugarte and Zirkzee, we tend to struggle to offload these types of players and end up sending them on loan.
Nothing dramatic about seeing so many posts recently saying we shouldn’t get Player A because we have Player B and thinking those kind of posts need to stop as it’s such small club mentality and even though we’re not where we were under Sir Alex we’re NOT a small club, last week it was we shouldn’t sign a 16 year old Monga from Leicester because it would stop a 15 year old JJ Gabriel from breaking into the team.I love a dramatic opening to a post
I'm not 100% convinced either way tbh, I could be persuaded Hall is the way to go, but then again I'm not sure I'd spend 50M on the LB spot this summer either...do you put faith in Amass, all options have merits.
26/27 Season
LB - Shaw, Dorgu, Amass
RB - Dalot, Maz, Amad(?)
RB looks a bit weaker to me, but then the obvious follow-up question is which RB would you go for smartarse? and I'm not sure I have a clear answer/winner for the RB spot either.
We’re going to be playing in four competitions next season and I can be 99.99% certain that Shaw won’t be fit for all of those games and Amass is trying to regain his fitness after a loan at the team bottom of The Championship so after midfield it’s clear that left back is the priority position to strengthen in, this has been reported by the respected journo’s who cover United who have also said Dorgu is seen as playing further forward next season so is back up to Cunha and why we’re not being linked with left wingers.
We can NOT go into next season with our left back options consisting of a injury concern in Shaw and a 19 year old Amass who’s on the back of a big injury himself so Hall makes sense on every single level for us as he fits the Ineos criteria in age, English, PL experienced, great on the ball, good passer, good positionally, overlaps well and a good crosser, strong tackler and could realistically get a decade out of him and if Amass progresses then we’ve strength in depth as Shaw is 31 next month so is coming towards the end of his top level career as a left back.
Yeah good point on back up keeper.
Even looking at it very pessimistically, we should be able to get £50-60 million for Rashford, Ugarte and Zirkzee. The real risk is INEOS deciding to keep some of them instead of accepting lower offers I reckon. We usually sell a few academy prospect for a few mill and we’ve already got 38 ish from Hojlund.
He’s a very good player. That said, in terms of skillset and profile, he’s very similar to Harry Amass. Football is strange like that, timing is everything. But I could easily see a scenario where a year or two of good fortune with the right loans and fitness - Amass would be seem in a similar light. Hall is only 21 himself. But the difference is, he’s ready right now.
We won't though will we? We'll have Dorgu and Dalot who can also play there, not really downgrading at RB by moving Dalot across.
It's not ideal but it's not as bleak as you're making out. We should go for Hall if we have the budget and we can get him at a decent price but I'm not sure if we will have the opportunity.
I love a dramatic opening to a post
I'm not 100% convinced either way tbh, I could be persuaded Hall is the way to go, but then again I'm not sure I'd spend 50M on the LB spot this summer either...do you put faith in Amass, all options have merits.
26/27 Season
LB - Shaw, Dorgu, Amass
RB - Dalot, Maz, Amad(?)
RB looks a bit weaker to me, but then the obvious follow-up question is which RB would you go for smartarse? and I'm not sure I have a clear answer/winner for the RB spot either.
As others have pointed out, Dorgu hasn't been playing as a LB for us, and seems to be viewed more as a wing option by the club. Realistically we only have one senior LB, and he's had notorious injury issues and doesn't have the legs to play two games a week. It would be madness to go into a PL and CL campaign with Shaw as the only real LB option. I've been arguing we need to upgrade at RB for a while, but there's no doubt that LB is a much bigger priority this summer.
Dorgu hasn't played there under Carrick - he's clearly seen as a LW. Dalot is awful on the left, severely limiting our play on that entire flank when he fills in there. If we want to be seriously competing in the PL, CL, and cups, we desperately need a new LB. We should have two quality options in every position, and players who play elsewhere filling in badly won't cut it, whilst also removing depth from their main positions.
Hall & Cunha would arguably be the best LW combination in the league.
I don't think I've ever seen stats, or outstanding qualities mentioned about him. Normally you see a fair amount if someone's promising, there would be clear reasons to want to sign a player.
Is there a convincing reason other than he's English and young?
The Amass talk is weird. He looked average enough in a few pre season games. Hall is light years ahead of him.
Hall would be a great signing and one we need to get done.
Hall would be a great signing and one we need to get done.
Yes, he's generally viewed as one of the best LBs in the league. He's technically very good, and very well rounded - great press resistance, great passing, can carry the ball and beat a player, great cross, gets up and down, very solid defensively. That makes for an interesting profile. He also comes with CL experience having put in an excellent performance against Lamine and Barca (gaining various headline plaudits in the process). I'm not sure what you're looking for here? I'm not really bothered if you've not seen stats or watched him play or not. There are lots of people who do rate him very highly, which is why he's seen as one of the top LB targets this summer.
Wow, Dalot is plenty good enough to be a starting RB in a league winning team. There is no way you even typed that with a straight face.
How many times have you watched him play?
Of course he is. Title winning teams don’t have eleven world class players.
Only a handful of full matches against United and other Champions League games with Newcastle.
He was very good against Barcelona atleast once but in other games he's been hardly noticeable.
I liked Hincapie for us and thought we should've signed him instead as he could play LB and also LCB. He has the height and tenancy that will make him a standout player at Arsenal over time.
Over the last few years it's been Alfonso Davies, Nuno Mendes and Balde who were most exciting and attacking. I don't think we should be looking for a Luke Shaw type of left back if he's that and just a safe signing. Even Udogie at Spurs impressed me watching at Old Trafford in the last couple of seasons.
I'll look into Hall more but if we're signing a left back for the next 6 or 8 years to compete with Europe's elite, I'm not sold yet based on his performances or career to date.
I guess I'm just more of a data guy. Will look into him more.
The push for him to be fast tracked into the first team is bizarre. He looked way off first team level in his few appearances and had to be loaned. He might be useful down the line or he might not make it here. These will be the same people who will have been hyping Colyer going back a year or two.
Looks like none of those LB mentioned are available whereas with this guy I'm confident he's gettable
Hall might be gettable, but Udogie or Balde are just as gettable for us too.
Really hope there’s truth to this. It’s a logical smart signing.
Dalot's end product in attacking areas is poor (although his crossing has improved over the last year or so), but he's clearly not woeful going forward. The fact that he gets in so many goal-scoring opportunities is because his movement in those areas is actually brilliant for a fullback. Even though he then messes most of them up, he creates so many chances that his final tally is quite decent.
He's scored more goals (7) in just the last three seasons than Luke Shaw has in his entire career, or the same as Gary Neville and Rafael did in their entire careers. He's scored the same amount of goals (10) in 246 games for us as Evra did in 379 games. Lewis Hall has a worse strike rate with 3 goals in 114 games. Mazraoui has scored just one goal in 132 games over his last four seasons for Bayern and Utd. In terms of assists Dalot normally gets 4-5 a season, which also seems about normal. Obviously there are the extreme examples of some players scoring or assisting a relative huge amount and ideally we would find one of those to play on one side, but that doesn't make Dalot 'woeful'.
Dalot spent 18 months being played out of position (first LB under ETH, then LWB and RWB under Amorim) where he was mostly poor. People tend to hold that 18 months against him too much. Limit it to just him playing at RB and he was fairly good in 22/23, our player of the season in 23/24 and now has been quite good again in the last half a season under Carrick. Hell, even the one period where he was consistently playing RWB under Amorim was the one time he started looking a fair bit better compared to when he was on the left. Overall while it'd be great to improve on him eventually, it's certainly not priority considering the holes throughout the rest of the team.
I’m in the same boat, I’ve never watched him and thought wow this guy is exceptional or a must buy. He looks decent and I believe there are stats that that suggest he is something special but honestly I see more promise in Brown and Diouf.
So I’m not sure where this hype train for him is coming from. We will also be stacked at LB, Shaw, Dorgu, Leon, Amass not to mention Dalot and Maz can play there.
There are options so not sure I’d be splashing 50 mil + on that when we need at least 3 midfielders a striker and another wing option.
Seems like a position that could wait another year.
Amass and Leon are nowhere near our first team.
Dorgu is also our other left wing option outside Cunha. So the other option we have is to sign a left winger instead and say Dorgu's now a left back. But we absolutely have to sign either a left winger or left back.
We should have two first team players per position as standard. I'm not willing to sacrifice standard depth by having players double counted because they can technically play another position in an emergency. Players able to play more than one position is a bonus, not something to use as an excuse to leave ourselves short.