Lewis Hall

Left it too late. Should have gone in for him far earlier in the summer. This will take an absolutely stupid fee to turn their heads now.
At the start of the season they are selling a midfielder for 100m. Late in the season, they are selling a 29 yr old midfielder for 78m

Do you really think it would have made any difference? Would have been 75-80 either ways.

And there's been precedence that we won't do overinflated deals this season.

We don't have cash, atleast any we can offer upfront to sweeten deals and adjust price.
 
He isnt worth anywhere near the price Newcastle are asking for, it would be incredibly foolish to spend £80m on an unproven LB who waant good enough for Chelsea and has missed 34 games through injury over the last 2 seasons.

We’re obviously not going to spend 80 million on him, but what do you mean by unproven? Even though he’s young he’s already proven he can play to a very high standard in both the PL and the CL.
 
Which people? Everyone agrees a left back is required.

Fair enough, most of the posts I was responding to in my head are the "sign someone for cover" instead of spending significant money on a bona fide starter. Doesn't really change my overall view though, which is that expecting more than 10-15 league starts from Shaw is negligence. Always loved the player and his ability, but he needs to be the backup/rotation option rather than a nailed on starter with a teenager or cheap signing for cover.
 
Which people? Everyone agrees a left back is required.

Nope, I’ve had numerous arguments with posters who think we can make do with what we’ve got, as baffling as I find that stance.
 
Nope, I’ve had numerous arguments with posters who think we can make do with what we’ve got, as baffling as I find that stance.
Me too. Argued with people who say we are fine with Amass and dorgu as cover and also people who say we can make do with mount for mf. It's like some fans have zero ambition or want to improve
 
Me too. Argued with people who say we are fine with Amass and dorgu as cover and also people who say we can make do with mount for mf. It's like some fans have zero ambition or want to improve

Yeah it’s bizarre. Last season during our lightest schedule ever there seemed to be unanimous agreement that we didn’t have the squad to compete on multiple fronts this season. Yet when it comes to signing players this summer for positions that are a glaringweakness, some people are now saying we can just make do with players filling in out of position or unproven academy prospects. It just feels astoundingly unambitious, and a concerning reflection of the erosion of standards - being happy to make do instead of actually strengthening.
 
Which people? Everyone agrees a left back is required.
Most do, but tbf there are definitely people who don't think we need a lb. Most of them think Dorgu is an option there despite Carrick very clearly not considering him a valid option at lb. Some also think Amass is good enough to be an option there.
 
Me too. Argued with people who say we are fine with Amass and dorgu as cover and also people who say we can make do with mount for mf. It's like some fans have zero ambition or want to improve

What's happened to Diego Leon? he was highly rated when he joined us last year but hasnt been mentioned much since
 
What's happened to Diego Leon? he was highly rated when he joined us last year but hasnt been mentioned much since

He was highly rated as a 17 year old coming from a Paraguayan club, but that still doesn't make him any more than a punt on a youth prospect. Sounds like he's been ok, but very raw with a lot of development still to do before breaking through to a senior level.
 
Nope, I’ve had numerous arguments with posters who think we can make do with what we’ve got, as baffling as I find that stance.
I happen to agree with you in wanting another LB, though I wouldn’t say I find it baffling to think Dorgu, Maz and Amass together can cover Shaw. That of course depends on what you/they have seen of particularily Dorgu and Amass at LB. I haven’t seen that nuch, but if people have seen Dorgu as LB in Serie A and think he can cover us, and if people who follow youth football have seen Amass a lot and think he is on a level with Lacey in terms of being ready, I’m not gonna call that crazy.

I certainly agree Dorgu at United have impressed more as LW than LWB and LB, but it’s very accidental evidence so far I feel. If we start the season with Cunha, Rashford and Dorgu (if), we are overly covered on LW, and it might change Carrick’s priorities compared to how it was last season.

Like I said, I hope and believe we’re going for a LB, but I wouldn’t call it crazy to stick with what we have.
 
I happen to agree with you in wanting another LB, though I wouldn’t say I find it baffling to think Dorgu, Maz and Amass together can cover Shaw. That of course depends on what you/they have seen of particularily Dorgu and Amass at LB. I haven’t seen that nuch, but if people have seen Dorgu as LB in Serie A and think he can cover us, and if people who follow youth football have seen Amass a lot and think he is on a level with Lacey in terms of being ready, I’m not gonna call that crazy.

I certainly agree Dorgu at United have impressed more as LW than LWB and LB, but it’s very accidental evidence so far I feel. If we start the season with Cunha, Rashford and Dorgu (if), we are overly covered on LW, and it might change Carrick’s priorities compared to how it was last season.

Like I said, I hope and believe we’re going for a LB, but I wouldn’t call it crazy to stick with what we have.
  • Maz is a backup for RB. We shouldn't be counting our squad in a way where same player is backup for two positions. That is irresponsible squad planning.
  • Amass is not a senior player and he cannot be backup for anybody. Cameos at best, and even that if he doesn't get sold or loaned.
  • Dorgu's best position is attack. It is not clear that Carrick is planning to play him as a LB
I think we should keep Dorgu on the left wing, and we should go all in on Lewis Hall, he is a fantastic LB that can be transformative for us. He should be our starting LB. Shaw can be the backup
 
Nope, I’ve had numerous arguments with posters who think we can make do with what we’ve got, as baffling as I find that stance.
We will improve if we signed a first choice LB. Massively. But. We're arguably the most indebted club in the whole feckin world. Do I want one? Yes. Must we get one? Nope.
 
I happen to agree with you in wanting another LB, though I wouldn’t say I find it baffling to think Dorgu, Maz and Amass together can cover Shaw. That of course depends on what you/they have seen of particularily Dorgu and Amass at LB. I haven’t seen that nuch, but if people have seen Dorgu as LB in Serie A and think he can cover us, and if people who follow youth football have seen Amass a lot and think he is on a level with Lacey in terms of being ready, I’m not gonna call that crazy.

I certainly agree Dorgu at United have impressed more as LW than LWB and LB, but it’s very accidental evidence so far I feel. If we start the season with Cunha, Rashford and Dorgu (if), we are overly covered on LW, and it might change Carrick’s priorities compared to how it was last season.

Like I said, I hope and believe we’re going for a LB, but I wouldn’t call it crazy to stick with what we have.

I’m not really bothered that he might have played there sometimes at Lecce, it’s the fact that our current coaching set up haven’t played him at LB. If he was seen internally as the viable cover/competition there, then surely they at least give him a half there during pre-season?

I find it baffling as I find it impossible to look at our current squad and not see a DCM, LB and a striker as obvious areas of weakness, and the whole point of this summer window should be to strengthen so we have the depth required to try and compete on multiple fronts.

Expecting Shaw to both play twice a week and remain injury free is downright foolish - he struggled to get up and down the flank consistently for just one game a week last season - which means you need someone to regularly rotate with him. If Maz or Dorgu are regularly rotating there, then we’re taking away depth from either our attack or from FB on our other flank. That just doesn’t seem smart. And it’s not just about who’s starting - with a heavy schedule you need to be able to make impactful subs. FB can be a physically demanding position where you need to cover a lot of ground and you always want attacking options on your bench to change a game. Maz or Dorgu starting at LB means they’re not available for RB cover or attacking cover. Throw in an injury to any FB (2/3 of ours are injury prone) and suddenly you’re really exposed.

Again - fine if all we’re trying to do is “make do”, but we should be trying to consolidate and build on our top four finish so we can make qualifying for the CL a regular thing.
 
I'm over Hall now based on the cost and now we're linked with Scalvini. I think he could stretch the budget way further, cover more positions and maybe we could look at hall next window. We've been playing Yoro on the right, so it could make sense we'd play him on the left.

If we could get both...*insert Vince McMahon gif here*
 
  • Maz is a backup for RB. We shouldn't be counting our squad in a way where same player is backup for two positions. That is irresponsible squad planning.
  • Amass is not a senior player and he cannot be backup for anybody. Cameos at best, and even that if he doesn't get sold or loaned.
  • Dorgu's best position is attack. It is not clear that Carrick is planning to play him as a LB
I think we should keep Dorgu on the left wing, and we should go all in on Lewis Hall, he is a fantastic LB that can be transformative for us. He should be our starting LB. Shaw can be the backup

Well said.
 
I Iive up there now and toon fans despise us. It comes from the 1996 title and has then been passed down to kids from their parents. They still talk like we're massive rivals.
They still try and mock from beating us 5-0 in October 96 and signing Shearer over us, it's hilarious how they haven't moved on
Yeah very much a one sided rivalry :lol:

Doesn’t seem to be solely a Newcastle thing, Seen a villa fan thanking Tielemans for everything but ‘why them!? Anyone but them’

So many childhoods ruined. Now we’ve just been ruining my adulthood
 
I think we will very likely sign a left back, but Im less sure its going to be Hall. Would be fantastic if it was, but we know we tend to have alternatives in mind if needed.
 
I think it’s possible United try do some business very late in the window, and this guy could be the marquee signing of the summer
 
Just get Robinson if we cant afford Hall.

Not the end of the world. But we do need someone.
 
Just get Robinson if we cant afford Hall.

Not the end of the world. But we do need someone.
Not the attitude we should be having really. I know our owners tend to tell lies etc but for a club that always says wants to build for the future… I’d rather pay a bit extra for a solid young player who has potential to be the best lb in the league for years to come rather than a 28 year old who we’ll have to replace again in a few years… that would be very poor squad planning. Get this Lb nailed down and sorted and then we can improve other positions
 
I think it’s possible United try do some business very late in the window, and this guy could be the marquee signing of the summer
Ye someone at work mentioned something like this to me aswell. They recon they’ll be a lot of activity in the last couple of weeks and they could be some bargains because players will be unhappy, want to leave or clubs need to sell to trim the squads etc.
 
Ye someone at work mentioned something like this to me aswell. They recon they’ll be a lot of activity in the last couple of weeks and they could be some bargains because players will be unhappy, want to leave or clubs need to sell to trim the squads etc.
Oh great yeah after dropping some costly points
 
Oh great yeah after dropping some costly points

You think beating Hull and Ipswich is dependent on new signings? I'm as keen for new arrivals as anyone, but our current squad is more than good enough to win the first few games. We need the depth for slightly later when the CL gets underway.
 
You think beating Hull and Ipswich is dependent on new signings? I'm as keen for new arrivals as anyone, but our current squad is more than good enough to win the first few games. We need the depth for slightly later when the CL gets underway.
Just remember you get funny results with newly promoted teams, Burnley in 09 against us, Cardiff against City in 13 and Brentford against Arsenal in 21. I think this deal is now dead in the water because we waited for them to sell 3 players which wasn't smart.
 
Just remember you get funny results with newly promoted teams, Burnley in 09 against us, Cardiff against City in 13 and Brentford against Arsenal in 21. I think this deal is now dead in the water because we waited for them to sell 3 players which wasn't smart.

Sure, but us winning isn’t dependent on a few signings now who would need time to bed in anyway.
 
  • Maz is a backup for RB. We shouldn't be counting our squad in a way where same player is backup for two positions. That is irresponsible squad planning.
  • Amass is not a senior player and he cannot be backup for anybody. Cameos at best, and even that if he doesn't get sold or loaned.
  • Dorgu's best position is attack. It is not clear that Carrick is planning to play him as a LB
I think we should keep Dorgu on the left wing, and we should go all in on Lewis Hall, he is a fantastic LB that can be transformative for us. He should be our starting LB. Shaw can be the backup
I understand that those are your opinions, and in general I agree with the first point about back ups, but I think it is a bit different if you have several players who can give good back up to a couple of positions among them. O’Shea, Brown, Hargreaves are examples og players in several positions to mitigate the need for two out and out competitors in each position for various reasons. If Maz is one of three decent back up solutions to LB and one of two back up solutions to RB for instance, it is not a big deal IMO.

As you maybe saw from my post, my impression is about the same of Dorgu and Amass that what you say. But I haven’t seen them that much. My point was rather that if someone had seen them a lot at LB and claim they can be good back up solutions there, it’s not necessarily a crazy or ignorant take. If you have seen them a lot at LB and are sure they cannot do, you have a stronger case to form opinions from than I have.
 
I just cant see us getting Hall at this stage. Newcastle have just lost 3 of their best players. Would take a mega offer to get him out of there now and it seems obvious utd are so reluctant to spend big.

I'd really like to start hearing some solid links to alternatives such as Truffert, Robinson or someone else.
 
I just cant see us getting Hall at this stage. Newcastle have just lost 3 of their best players. Would take a mega offer to get him out of there now and it seems obvious utd are so reluctant to spend big.

I'd really like to start hearing some solid links to alternatives such as Truffert, Robinson or someone else.
We have blown this deal spectacularly by waiting so you know what sod it go and get Lewis-Skelly for two roles
 
I’m not really bothered that he might have played there sometimes at Lecce, it’s the fact that our current coaching set up haven’t played him at LB. If he was seen internally as the viable cover/competition there, then surely they at least give him a half there during pre-season?

I find it baffling as I find it impossible to look at our current squad and not see a DCM, LB and a striker as obvious areas of weakness, and the whole point of this summer window should be to strengthen so we have the depth required to try and compete on multiple fronts.

Expecting Shaw to both play twice a week and remain injury free is downright foolish - he struggled to get up and down the flank consistently for just one game a week last season - which means you need someone to regularly rotate with him. If Maz or Dorgu are regularly rotating there, then we’re taking away depth from either our attack or from FB on our other flank. That just doesn’t seem smart. And it’s not just about who’s starting - with a heavy schedule you need to be able to make impactful subs. FB can be a physically demanding position where you need to cover a lot of ground and you always want attacking options on your bench to change a game. Maz or Dorgu starting at LB means they’re not available for RB cover or attacking cover. Throw in an injury to any FB (2/3 of ours are injury prone) and suddenly you’re really exposed.

Again - fine if all we’re trying to do is “make do”, but we should be trying to consolidate and build on our top four finish so we can make qualifying for the CL a regular thing.
As I said, I tend to agree with you on those particular points. I do think if - hypothetically - someone has seen Dorgu play LB at Lecce and think he did fantastically well there, it’s a more relevant testimony to his potential there than wether Carrick has used him there these few months with the options he’s had at LB and LW so far. But I would agree it’s a clear indication that Carrick would want a LB in. I would too. But it doesn’t in itself prove that Dorgu might not be a viable back up option there.

But, again, I believe we are aiming to bring in two more players. I think we actually have not so bad depth now, after this window so far, it’s more the top quality we need to improve to take the next step. We currently have only one player of the highest order, Bruno. Apart from that there is a lot of potential. If we want to challenge for the League and CL, I think we need more top class players in key positions - some of our current ones may develop into that level (Lammens, Heaven, Yoro, Mainoo, Santos, Mount, Amad, Sesko) but it’s not a given at all. We lack that injury free top class in GK, CB, RB, LB, CM, LW, RW and S compared to the absolute best.

At that point it may also make more sense to hold out for the right deals. If we can get a Tschouameni now, maybe make do with Shaw, Amas and Dorgu at LB for a year. If we can get Hall, maybe make do with Mount, Santos and an understudy at CM. If we can get a ‘Van Dijk’ or a ‘Haaland’ now (but I don’t see them out there), maybe that is more important than filling out the depth in MF or LB with semi-expensive signings. It’s just a thought.

I think we’re in the market for two more signings, one of them probably wuite expensive. That’s my guess. But I’m not sweating and twitching at this point, no.
 
Newcastle have pocketed like a gazillion quid this summer and this lad is on a long term contract, it will be a miracle if this happens, which is a shame.

We need to sign a LB this summer, but then, we need to sign a 3rd midfielder too.

As of now it looks like we're banking on Luke Shaw and Mason Mount staying fit, rather than making those signings - what could go wrong?

Hopefully we're playing 4D chess rather than penny pinching & we see some movement over the next few weeks.

If we do nothing to address either before the end of the window I'd hope to see protests like we've never seen before.
 
I understand that those are your opinions, and in general I agree with the first point about back ups, but I think it is a bit different if you have several players who can give good back up to a couple of positions among them. O’Shea, Brown, Hargreaves are examples og players in several positions to mitigate the need for two out and out competitors in each position for various reasons. If Maz is one of three decent back up solutions to LB and one of two back up solutions to RB for instance, it is not a big deal IMO.

As you maybe saw from my post, my impression is about the same of Dorgu and Amass that what you say. But I haven’t seen them that much. My point was rather that if someone had seen them a lot at LB and claim they can be good back up solutions there, it’s not necessarily a crazy or ignorant take. If you have seen them a lot at LB and are sure they cannot do, you have a stronger case to form opinions from than I have.
I hear you, mate. As a general approach, you're not wrong that you could have multiple players covering multiple positions, especially if this positions overlap

Specifically for us however, the problem is that Maz is the only player that can be a serious backup for both LB as well as RB.

You can see a situation where Luke Shaw gets injured very quickly, Maz starts being the LB, and then Dalot gets injured, and we have nobody to cover him, and before any of them recover, Maz can get injured, or gets red, then we have no LB and RB, and then we're fecked

We are supposed to play a lot of games in the coming season. Thin squad will be a disaster
 
He isnt worth anywhere near the price Newcastle are asking for, it would be incredibly foolish to spend £80m on an unproven LB who waant good enough for Chelsea and has missed 34 games through injury over the last 2 seasons.
De Bruyne wasn't 'good enough' to break through at Chelsea. Hall isn't comparable of course but Chelsea aren't the best when it comes to assessing their youth players.