LGBT Relationship Lessons in UK Schools

shamans

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Making out with another girl to turn a guy on ------ "a lesbian phase"
I think you know what he was talking about and let's not deny it. We all know plenty of "bisexual" girls who just do it for fun or as a kinky turn on. Why totally deny this? Doesnt mean that's every gay person.

You can definitely develop feelings for the same gender due to environmental factors.
 

Kinsella

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Given the issue at hand then what would your policy be for Britain's growing muslim population? Would you advocate restricting further immigration from Islamic countries?
I don't know. I'm not good at figuring out educational policy. But hopefully not teaching them to throw gays from tall buildings as a good start.
 

shamans

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Tbf there's also a book about a kid who dresses up as a mermaid. So presumably we have trans-species sex to worry about too. 'tis all fun and games until your daughter brings home aquaman.
Id like to think gay couples arent a fantasy such as a mermaid ?

He's saying literally that somebody's sexual preferences are not natural, and are somehow learned behaviours that can be taught as a result of schooling whilst at the same time acknowledging that his own preferences go as far back as he can remember, before any kind of schooling existed.
He didnt say that from my understanding. Its arguing environmental factors do and can have an impact.

Being gay straight or bi isnt as simple has having a nose or not. A lot of people go through a phase of discovering themselves and where they fit into society. That's not every straight or gay person but it happens.
 

shamans

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So he is a bigot because he is objecting that it's being integrated into curriculum too early?

I see a lot of hyperbole in response to @Raees and also a lot of exaggeration about his statement to make it sound bad.
The mermaid one is an example. This was my earlier point - if your view deviates one bit from the excepted norm you're basically an idiot homophobe..
 

sullydnl

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That is not the only book out there. The penguin book is not a big deal.
Then what are you arguing against? Because this thread is literally a response to people protesting against a) the penguin book being in the school and b) kids being taught not to discriminate based on sexual orientation along with gender, age or disability. That's it. And your first post in this thread was to claim you were against it and that it sexualizes children, before later fretting that kids will catch the gay at school.

So either you're very weird or you began your contribution to the thread by railing against something the thread wasn't about. Or both.
 

sullydnl

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Id like to think gay couples arent a fantasy such as a mermaid ?
And I'd like to think that "using a book about gay penguins to teach kids not to discriminate might turn them gay" isn't an argument anyone ever has to take seriously. Yet here we are.
 

Kag

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I think it depends on the age group. I’d be hesitant to teach 4-5 year olds about anything related to relationships, gay or otherwise. They’re 4 - they couldn’t give a shit.

When they get towards the end of primary, 9/10/11 etc, then I’d say that’s the time to start it.
Just for reference, there are 17 curriculum areas that practitioners must assess pupils against to identify whether or not a child has reached the early learning goal (expected standard) as they make the transition from EYFS to KS1. At least six of them are directly linked to the domain of relationships. Yes, they’re four - and for these pupils forming relationships is one of the bedrocks of primary curricula.

The wider debate is largely simple. Pupils, especially in schools that place emphasis on personal development (if they don’t then they are in bother going forward), are told what the nine Protected Characteristics are. They are told that it is illegal to discriminate against these Characteristics. They are taught that in 21st century society, same-sex couples are a certain type of relationship. They are then taught that discriminating against these relationships would be illegal and wrong.

Sex education in primary schools prepares pupils for the changes in their bodies that will occur. They will be able to explain that babies are made as a result of sexual intercourse, or other technological avenues (IVF). They’re not taught about having sex in primary school. None of this content is anything other than age-appropriate.

The biggest issues schools face in this instance is dinosaur mentality and a lack of understanding and/or maturity via the parents.
 

Carolina Red

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I think you know what he was talking about and let's not deny it. We all know plenty of "bisexual" girls who just do it for fun or as a kinky turn on. Why totally deny this? Doesnt mean that's every gay person.
My point: That's not a "lesbian phase".
You can definitely develop feelings for the same gender due to environmental factors.
Go on...
 

Kag

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So he is a bigot because he is objecting that it's being integrated into curriculum too early?

I see a lot of hyperbole in response to @Raees and also a lot of exaggeration about his statement to make it sound bad.
He isn’t a bigot. He hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about, however.
 

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Id like to think gay couples arent a fantasy such as a mermaid ?



He didnt say that from my understanding. Its arguing environmental factors do and can have an impact.

Being gay straight or bi isnt as simple has having a nose or not. A lot of people go through a phase of discovering themselves and where they fit into society. That's not every straight or gay person but it happens.
That person is not gay or lesbian during this process. You are confusing somebody experimenting with their sexuality to find out where they are (what is wrong with that by the way? Please answer) before settling there, with somebody being gay or lesbian. Can you not see how your inability to actually see things for what they are, can be harmful if you try to legislate on education based on your misconceptions. The notion that Raees is saying, that being taught about gay parents in school means your kid might say 'I have decided now without doing any experimenting to be sure, that I'm gay so now I'm just going to feck men for the rest of my life even if I don't feel attracted to them because that's what school said!' is absolutely ludicrous. People know what they feel, and sometimes people think they feel something, test it out and realise that they either do feel that and they were right, or they don't feel that and so they're not going to do it anymore. Nobody is just gay because school told them to be, I can't say I know much about your posting history so I'm going to credit you with more intelligence than state that you're in agreement with that viewpoint.
 

shamans

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My point: That's not a "lesbian phase".

Go on...
If that's not a lesbian phase then what is it? I don't know if there is a more accurate scientific term for it but it's not rare to find girls say "I went through a lesbian/bi phase in college". I don't know what you mean by the go on as I'm talking about the same thing I believe.

That person is not gay or lesbian during this process. You are confusing somebody experimenting with their sexuality to find out where they are (what is wrong with that by the way? Please answer) before settling there, with somebody being gay or lesbian. Can you not see how your inability to actually see things for what they are, can be harmful if you try to legislate on education based on your misconceptions. The notion that Raees is saying, that being taught about gay parents in school means your kid might say 'I have decided now without doing any experimenting to be sure, that I'm gay so now I'm just going to feck men for the rest of my life even if I don't feel attracted to them because that's what school said!' is absolutely ludicrous. People know what they feel, and sometimes people think they feel something, test it out and realise that they either do feel that and they were right, or they don't feel that and so they're not going to do it anymore. Nobody is just gay because school told them to be, I can't say I know much about your posting history so I'm going to credit you with more intelligence than state that you're in agreement with that viewpoint.
I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it but that it does happen -- the environment CAN shape your orientation especially as some people are on the spectrum. I'm not here to say it's right or wrong.

As for the rest of your post, I wont comment more. If you think I'm not intelligent enough anyway for your superior understanding there's no reason to debate.
 

Carolina Red

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If that's not a lesbian phase then what is it? I don't know if there is a more accurate scientific term for it but it's not rare to find girls say "I went through a lesbian/bi phase in college". I don't know what you mean by the go on as I'm talking about the same thing I believe.
@Zarlak summed it up nicely
 

shamans

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And I'd like to think that "using a book about gay penguins to teach kids not to discriminate might turn them gay" isn't an argument anyone ever has to take seriously. Yet here we are.
I'm not part of that argument but just saying you can't compare the issue of homosexuality in society with a completely fictional one.
 

Kinsella

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As for the rest of your post, I wont comment more. If you think I'm not intelligent enough anyway for your superior understanding there's no reason to debate.
I've thought for awhile that this would be a great idea. An exam based on the issues. If you fail, you cannot vote.

Representative democracies, hell the Athenian democracy itself, were not established with universal suffrage FOR A REASON.
:D
 

shamans

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@Zarlak summed it up nicely
He said I am confusing experimenting with a "permanent" status. The rest of it is just "you're dumb".

I'm not going to bother answering the phase/permanent status thing. I'm not confusing the two but to act like both are disjoint sets is just silly. Really, there's no point arguing about it since it's too controversial of a topic and I don't see anyone on here changing their views.
 

Carolina Red

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He said I am confusing experimenting with a "permanent" status. The rest of it is just "you're dumb".

I'm not going to bother answering the phase/permanent status thing. I'm not confusing the two but to act like both are disjoint sets is just silly. Really, there's no point arguing about it since it's too controversial of a topic and I don't see anyone on here changing their views.
I stand by what I said. He summed it up nicely.
 

shamans

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I’m not sure what that’s supposed to mean, but I’m not thrilled about it.
I wouldn’t expect you to.
Because I read your posts.
You don't expect me to understand why a school curriculum should include something, supposedly because of my views. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me which you would also agree.

My question is, do you just accept that these people have to blindly agree to school curriculums? Especially since you don't expect them to "get it".
 

Carolina Red

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You don't expect me to understand why a school curriculum should include something, supposedly because of my views. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me which you would also agree.

My question is, do you just accept that these people have to blindly agree to school curriculums? Especially since you don't expect them to "get it".
You’ll have to excuse me, I was under the impression that this exhange was about girls making out to turn a guy on.
 

Wibble

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You're agreeing with me as well that sexuality is on a spectrum and environmental factors can determine how you identify yourself as.

Happens with gay people too who are confused for parts of their lives thinking they are straight.

Environment has a big role so you cant just say it cant change anyone's identification.
I'm really not.

You have not explained why you think that merely informing kids that there are a range of sexualities might make them gay.

It seems to be based on the assumption that gay sex is bad.
 

shamans

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You’ll have to excuse me, I was under the impression that this exhange was about girls making out to turn a guy on.
That was a while ago. That's something that does happen so yeah. This exchange is about something else but I'll drop it.


I'm really not.

You have not explained why you think that merely informing kids that there are a range of sexualities might make them gay.

It seems to be based on the assumption that gay sex is bad.
My only point is that environmental factors do play a part. I don't know how that assumption is made on gay sex being bad but again, me saying it's not bad doesn't matter. I'm forgetting what it was but someone was laughing at the idea of anything taught to children having any impact on their future sexuality and I just picked up on that.
 

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The only impact I can imagine possible is minimising kid's shame at having sexual thoughts that their parents or society deem not to be normal.
 

syrian_scholes

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The only impact I can imagine possible is minimising kid's shame at having sexual thoughts that their parents or society deem not to be normal.
But from what I understand those kids haven't even hit puberty, so they don't have any sexual thoughts.
 

Wibble

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But from what I understand those kids haven't even hit puberty, so they don't have any sexual thoughts.
What? Are you serious? Kids have feelings about their sexuality and gender identity from very young indeed.

And even if they don't why shouldn't they be informed about such things as they are a normal part of life?

They can't drink or drive or vote yet but we talk to them about such things.
 

syrian_scholes

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What? Are you serious? Kids have feelings about their sexuality and gender identity from very young indeed.
I don't remember having any as a kid, I remember I thought some girls are pretty in my class but that's about it.
 

shamans

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Was it? If so why would that being a factor make tellings kids that there are a variety of sexualities be a problem?
I don't know if it's a problem. I'm not sure in this case. However for me it's between "How would this shape their environment" vs "anything they see or learn doesn't matter because a gay dude knows he's gay automatically and a straight person knows they are, always".
 

Wibble

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I don't remember having any as a kid, I remember I thought some girls are pretty in my class but that's about it.
Yet you weren't attracted to boys? Whuch probably says these feelings were at least partly related to your sexuality and gender identity?
 

syrian_scholes

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Yet you weren't attracted to boys? Whuch probably says these feelings were at least partly related to your sexuality and gender identity?
Would that be even considered attraction? Btw I'm not arguing anything here before I get piled on for saying children before puberty are too young to have sexual thoughts, I can see how people are aggressive in this thread and I want none of that.