Life after ETH — the next United manager

[UpWithRivers]

Its going to be Southgate isnt it. And I bet they bring him as interim to start with to ease us in like a 12 incher up our arses. Think about it. They interviewed and discussed all the managers that could have come in the summer and dismissed them. Are they now going to go to Tuchel, Tomas Frank, Potter etc and say oh you know we said no in summer and ETH was better but we changed our minds. Who does that leave? Southgate. He wasnt available so they thought stick with ETH and if not Southy is waiting in the wings

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

I would bring in Carrick or McKenna. We need to get back to basics

Can anyone tell me why Thomas Frank is so rarely mentioned? I mean, his record is quite extraordinary: First he overcame a crisis at Brentford. Lost his first 8 games in charge, then turned things around and had them play dominant possession based attacking football. Then, with a limited budget, he took them to the play offs two times and got them promoted. Still on a budget they finished 13 and 9 in their two first seasons by adapting to the PL with a more direct and compact style, but still with an attacking mindset. Last season they had half the team and many key players out with injuries and their star striker banned. Still managed to survive. They have an impressing record vs top six and are the latest team to beat City at Etihad.
Thomas Frank is the longest serving manager in the Prem bar Pep. He has shown that he can implement both long term strategy and adapt quickly when needed. He’s man management is excellent and he always comes off as both honest and direct in interviews.

The only caveat is the fact that the setup at Brentford is quite unique - but his tactical skills and personal qualities are obvious. Why not go for him as he’s both promising and proved?

 

[redNATION]

Inzaghi would be an excellent choice. Italian managers generally seem to do well in the EPL, more winners of the league than any other nationality.

 

[devilish]

Can anyone tell me why Thomas Frank is so rarely mentioned? I mean, his record is quite extraordinary: First he overcame a crisis at Brentford. Lost his first 8 games in charge, then turned things around and had them play dominant possession based attacking football. Then, with a limited budget, he took them to the play offs two times and got them promoted. Still on a budget they finished 13 and 9 in their two first seasons by adapting to the PL with a more direct and compact style, but still with an attacking mindset. Last season they had half the team and many key players out with injuries and their star striker banned. Still managed to survive. They have an impressing record vs top six and are the latest team to beat City at Etihad.
Thomas Frank is the longest serving manager in the Prem bar Pep. He has shown that he can implement both long term strategy and adapt quickly when needed. He’s man management is excellent and he always comes off as both honest and direct in interviews.

The only caveat is the fact that the setup at Brentford is quite unique - but his tactical skills and personal qualities are obvious. Why not go for him as he’s both promising and proved?

Isn't Frank a bit of a counter attacking manager? That can work well with Brentford but would translate badly with us

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Isn't Frank a bit of a counter attacking manager? That can work well with Brentford but would translate badly with us

No. They dominated on the ball in the championship with possession based football. Then he adapted to the Prem instead of naively thinking they could compete with the same style. But if he has the players to play possession based football he’ll do it.

Here’s an interesting analysis of them from 2021:

https://themastermindsite.com/2021/05/24/thomas-frank-brentford-tactical-analysis-2020-21/

“Brentford play high intensity, high tempo, heavy-metal football. It’s attack-minded, possession-oriented, and incorporates high-pressing, a high-line and positional play. AKA…practically all the markers of a top team in 2021.“

 

[doubleohseven]

Calling it:

If Team Glazer were still calling the shots, EtH would no longer be managing us.

Ineos are refusing to risk their neck on a new coach because they know there's nobody available who can surpass EtH's ceiling (top four and a trophy).

They might act soon but expect an interim. A few decent results will give some breathing space.

If they can lure a better coach they'll hire them unless EtH wins the league (he won't).

 

[fergiewherearethou]

If Ineos really searched for a new manager this summer and couldn't find one, it's sure as hell they won't find one during the season.
I really doubt that there wasn't any manager available that could do better than our guy.
If I see Southgate or Potter on our bench, I might stop watching our games for the first time in 25 years.

 

[JJ12]

Calling it:

If Team Glazer were still calling the shots, EtH would no longer be managing us.

Ineos are refusing to risk their neck on a new coach because they know there's nobody available who can surpass EtH's ceiling (top four and a trophy).

They might act soon but expect an interim. A few decent results will give some breathing space.

If they can lure a better coach they'll hire them unless EtH wins the league (he won't).

That's guesswork. All of a sudden now people think Glazers would do the right thing, funny old fan base.

 

[stefan92]

That's guesswork. All of a sudden now people think Glazers would do the right thing, funny old fan base.

It was obvious that any manager was sacked who couldn't reach the CL. I think only Mou got sacked even earlier in a season when belief was lost. The closest we have to the EtH scenario is LvG's sacking, both won the FA Cup but missed CL qualification. Under the Glazers it's reasonable to assume that he would have been sacked in the summer.

 

[Smores]

If Ineos really searched for a new manager this summer and couldn't find one, it's sure as hell they won't find one during the season.
I really doubt that there wasn't any manager available that could do better than our guy.
If I see Southgate or Potter on our bench, I might stop watching our games for the first time in 25 years.

That isn't what happened though, that line was just the spin to support the u turn decision on keeping Ten Hag.

They'll already know who they want to offer the job to so it's just a question of availability and convincing them.

Any change is better than no change as the performance of a new manager is quite an unknown. If it's Potter or Southgate so be it, we give them a grace period and if they fail move on quickly. We need to start treating them just like a bad signing, they're dispensable.

 

[doubleohseven]

That's guesswork. All of a sudden now people think Glazers would do the right thing,

Oh, I absolutely do not think such. The Glazers will do what ultimately suits the Glazers. As ever.

Do not misrepresent my words.

Any change is better than no change as the performance of a new manager is quite an unknown. If it's Potter or Southgate so be it, we give them a grace period and if they fail move on quickly. We need to start treating them just like a bad signing, they're dispensable.

Utterly and completely wrong.

Managers will make wholesale changes to the squad and base their coaching around them.

It will cost hundreds of millions to but/sell new players to implement changes, not to mention, the millions wasted in manager contract fees and agency costs.

We are still in Glazer Debt, remember.

You are thinking of Abramovich's Chelsea, in which managers can be disposed of easily as Mr Oil Money can foot the bill. Those days are over. They'd be over even if Qatar's State Bid won the day.

I'm not going to admonish you for the crime of replacing misfiring EtH with proven failures, either, though I am.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Managers will make wholesale changes to the squad and base their coaching around them.

It will cost hundreds of millions to but/sell new players to implement changes

You can simply not let them do that.

 

[Varun1]

Would you guys take a win against Porto and another month (at least) of poor results? Or a loss and almost certainly the end of EtH?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Isn't Frank a bit of a counter attacking manager? That can work well with Brentford but would translate badly with us

I like Frank. I mentioned his name numerous times in the summer as a good option.

 

[devilish]

I like Frank. I mentioned his name numerous times in the summer as a good option.

I am simply asking a question. I welcome new names and I assure you that I'll now make some solid research about him.

 

[FrankDrebin]

United fans don't like Frank Thomas because he's arrogant, confident, charismatic and has a defined style of play.

 

[Globule]

United fans don't like Frank Thomas because he's arrogant, confident, charismatic and has a defined style of play.

He's very blunt and honest too, hence the nickname.

 

[doubleohseven]

You can simply not let them do that.

I can guarantee you if you don't allow managers to chop and change accordingly, especially out of principle, you are not going to be able to change managers. Definitely not to an extent you would
like.

Its going to be Southgate isnt it.

Even as an interim, whoever is behind such an appointment, no matter who they are or what position it is they hold, should resign if (and when) it fails.

The executive team failing upwards, making terrible transfer decisions and hiring duds as managers* whilst coining it in, has got to stop.

If they fail, they go.

No more jobs for the boys or mate's rates.

*I'm aware keeping EtH on has not worked but at this moment, but there is no viable replacement. Ineos are working differently than Team Glazer on attempting a different precedent on changes and I accept that will take time.

 

[akn2804]

Can anyone tell me why Thomas Frank is so rarely mentioned? I mean, his record is quite extraordinary: First he overcame a crisis at Brentford. Lost his first 8 games in charge, then turned things around and had them play dominant possession based attacking football. Then, with a limited budget, he took them to the play offs two times and got them promoted. Still on a budget they finished 13 and 9 in their two first seasons by adapting to the PL with a more direct and compact style, but still with an attacking mindset. Last season they had half the team and many key players out with injuries and their star striker banned. Still managed to survive. They have an impressing record vs top six and are the latest team to beat City at Etihad.
Thomas Frank is the longest serving manager in the Prem bar Pep. He has shown that he can implement both long term strategy and adapt quickly when needed. He’s man management is excellent and he always comes off as both honest and direct in interviews.

The only caveat is the fact that the setup at Brentford is quite unique - but his tactical skills and personal qualities are obvious. Why not go for him as he’s both promising and proved?

As a Dane, I would love to have a Danish manager appointed. However, Thomas Frank is simply not a big club manager. Having followed Frank since his stint at Brøndby, he does not possess the leadership qualities needed to succeed. It would be a repeat of the cycles the previous managers have gone through with him eventually loosing the dressing room.

 

[pocco]

You can simply not let them do that.

Pretty obvious solution really. Only entertain managers who are convinced they could get more out of what we have, on the premise that they will continue to be backed as every other manager has been.

 

[pocco]

Would you guys take a win against Porto and another month (at least) of poor results? Or a loss and almost certainly the end of EtH?

I can never want us to lose, but I know which outcome is best for the club. Let's put it that way.

It's just crazy that some supporters are having to get this line of thinking in the hope it will force the club to do anything. In a way yes we should be upholding standards of the clubs, these suits are merely custodians of our club. But they need to have some fecking standards themselves and not put the fans through this shit. They should be able to recognise these things coming before we do, yet it seems the absolute opposite with United.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Any change is better than no change as the performance of a new manager is quite an unknown. If it's Potter or Southgate so be it, we give them a grace period and if they fail move on quickly. We need to start treating them just like a bad signing, they're dispensable.

I completely agree with that, but looking at what Ineos did this summer and rewarded the manager with another chance after finishing 8th!!! does let me to believe that whoever they bring next will get a lot of time before getting sacked and so on.
Another poster said something that if Glazers were still calling the shots ETH would have been already gone by now and I agree.
Giving the manager time, power and credibility are luxuries that we cannot afford anymore as it's clear that neither the Glazers or Ineos knows who deserves that. We've made only bad choices in terms of manager appointments in the last 11 years.

 

[AkaAkuma]

I think there are a number of managers we could sign depending on what circumstances allow. Getting bogged down on the right choice will be fruitless as its so unpredictable.
For me the key progression I want Ineos to make is being ready to move on from a manager when it is clear it isn’t working. This means having performance milestones.
It also requires positioning us financially so that we can do it without too much of a financial impact.

What we should learn is that giving managers time has no legs in the modern game and most successful cycles see a manager implementing positive change within 3-6months.

 

[Member 101908]

Not gonna lie, the INEOS regime has been underwhelming.
The signings haven’t been a resounding success (yet) (maz looks good tho) but more importantly keeping ETH on is one of the worst post Fergie decisions.

I mean we’re in crisis on gw 4-5, I don’t remember any club imploding this early ever.

Seems like a continuation of the Glazers regime tbh

 

[Varun1]

I can never want us to lose, but I know which outcome is best for the club. Let's put it that way.

It's just crazy that some supporters are having to get this line of thinking in the hope it will force the club to do anything. In a way yes we should be upholding standards of the clubs, these suits are merely custodians of our club. But they need to have some fecking standards themselves and not put the fans through this shit. They should be able to recognise these things coming before we do, yet it seems the absolute opposite with United.

Very succinct, and I agree with this unfortunately.

At this stage, surely it must be the compensation that's holding them. As others have said, other teams have gone for their 2nd/3rd/10th choice and are doing well (Liverpool & Slot, Spurs & Ange?, Bayern & Kompany).

 

[Jordan_mufc]

Not gonna lie, the INEOS regime has been underwhelming.
The signings haven’t been a resounding success (yet) (maz looks good tho) but more importantly keeping ETH on is one of the worst post Fergie decisions.

I mean we’re in crisis on gw 4-5, I don’t remember any club imploding this early ever.

Seems like a continuation of the Glazers regime tbh

Regimes do not take 3-4 months to fix. It's going to take 3-4 years if we're lucky to untangle the mess that we are in.

It was almost inevitable that we were going to implode this early, especially factoring in that ETH is refusing to use modern tactics.

Let's give them time to fix us before we write them kff

 

[pocco]

Very succinct, and I agree with this unfortunately.

At this stage, surely it must be the compensation that's holding them. As others have said, other teams have gone for their 2nd/3rd/10th choice and are doing well (Liverpool & Slot, Spurs & Ange?, Bayern & Kompany).

Having just seen that tweet about PSR, I'm starting to think that's the case. You're looking at a £17m payoff to ETH + say £10m to take a manager from elsewhere. Maybe more? It felt like we hammered through our money in the summer, only just staying within fair play rules. It's probably likely that we didn't foresee a failing manager continuing to fail, and no longer have the ability to replace him.

 

[quadrant]

Very succinct, and I agree with this unfortunately.

At this stage, surely it must be the compensation that's holding them. As others have said, other teams have gone for their 2nd/3rd/10th choice and are doing well (Liverpool & Slot, Spurs & Ange?, Bayern & Kompany).

This gets said every time a manager is on the brink and never turns out to be true.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

For the love of god please not Southgate

 

[bond19821982]

Anyone who can stop leaking us goals please.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Having just seen that tweet about PSR, I'm starting to think that's the case. You're looking at a £17m payoff to ETH + say £10m to take a manager from elsewhere. Maybe more? It felt like we hammered through our money in the summer, only just staying within fair play rules. It's probably likely that we didn't foresee a failing manager continuing to fail, and no longer have the ability to replace him.

Yeah not buying this. Why is it every other team can sack their manager but we're somehow stuck with ETH, because PSR?

 

[Blood Mage]

Its going to be Southgate isnt it. And I bet they bring him as interim to start with to ease us in like a 12 incher up our arses. Think about it. They interviewed and discussed all the managers that could have come in the summer and dismissed them. Are they now going to go to Tuchel, Tomas Frank, Potter etc and say oh you know we said no in summer and ETH was better but we changed our minds. Who does that leave? Southgate. He wasnt available so they thought stick with ETH and if not Southy is waiting in the wings

Atmosphere around the club will get unbelievably toxic if it happens. We'll be begging for Woody and Murtough to come back.

 

[pocco]

Yeah not buying this. Why is it every other team can sack their manager but we're somehow stuck with ETH, because PSR?

I don't know how PSR/FFP works, but if we're at the stage where we are sell to buy, can we afford £30-40m a month later to sack our manager? Does it come out of the same pot? I don't know, but given the reports that we couldn't afford to sack him last season, I'm guessing it does.

 

[Robbie Boy]

ETH has to go. But feck me, hiring any of Potter, Frank or Southgate would be seriously depressing.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don't know how PSR/FFP works, but if were at the stage where we are sell to buy, can we afford £30-40m a month later to sack our manager? Does it come out of the same pot? I don't know, but given the reports that we couldn't afford to sack him last season, I'm guessing it does.

Were those reports not dispelled last season? Sounds ludicrous that the club wouldn't have made any contingency plans in the extremely likely event he'll have to be sacked this season. Does the club just sit on it's hands as he loses game after game? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Chairman Steve]

A few reputable journalists have said Southgate’s not under consideration plus it wouldn’t make sense considering who they’ve been appointing this calendar year. Appointing the likes of Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox, Vivell and then appointing Southgate is like getting Michelin Star chefs and then hiring the griddle cook at McDonalds.

Nobody really knows what the story with Tuchel is. Maybe he rejected us. Maybe we didn’t want him. Maybe there’s some loose agreement Tuchel can take a brief sabbatical and jump in the seat when ETH has the ship sinking. Who knows?

Maybe INEOS will pull another rabbit out of the hat that nobody was expecting like them taking Berrada from City or Ashworth from Newcastle.

 

[FrankDrebin]

ETH has to go. But feck me, hiring any of Potter, Frank or Southgate would be seriously depressing.

Thomas Frank is better than those two, for one.

 

[doubleohseven]

Pretty obvious solution really. Only entertain managers who are convinced they could get more out of what we have, on the premise that they will continue to be backed as every other manager has been.

Already done.

ten Hag is convinced he could get more out of this squad than currently. I guess we can entertain backing him in perpetuity?

Pretty obvious.

Yeah not buying this. Why is it every other team can sack their manager but we're somehow stuck with ETH, because PSR?

Because other teams don't have our mountains of sweet Glazer debt.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Thomas Frank is better than those two, for one.

Yeah, I'm not a fan.

 

[Daengophile]

Potter was in full politician mode when asked about United on Sky.

Refused to criticise Ten Hag's tactics when talking about the Spurs game. Refused to answer when asked if United had talked to him over the summer. Refused to answer if he'd be interested in the United job if it came up.

As far as I can see, Potter's managerial statistics at Brighton and Chelsea are less than impressive.

He wins about as many as he loses